We all need to be more efficient in our use of energy really so going after all the power hungry appliances that are more powerful than they need to be to mitigate poor design seems a good place as any to start
If we're going to start anywhere, it should be the modern trend for appliances in "standby" and leaving chargers plugged in 24/7. I wonder how much we'd save if we switched off / unplugged everything we weren't using?
Pretty brainless policy (suprise surprise).
It's not a policy.
They'd have been better off making the volumetric capacity of the kettles smaller (say 2 mugs max).
How am I going to efficiently boil water for my pasta?
Did you know it takes about 14 litres of water to make one plastic kettle?
Anyway. Here are some tips on how to make a better kettle
[i]The energy consumption of a kettle depends on:
Thermal mass of materials that are heated while the water is heated. New thick film heating elements are available and have a much smaller thermal mass than traditional concealed elements and immersed coil elements. A manufacturer of thick film elements estimates that up to 20% energy saving may be achievable
Heat loss from external surfaces. This is dependent on the wall’s thermal conductivity, so low thermal conductivity plastic is superior to higher thermal conductivity metal.
Ability to heat a small amount of water and no more than is needed. The accuracy of the level indicator is important, but education of the user is most important.
Heat input continues after the water reaches required temperature (boils) until the automatic cut-out actuates. The time this takes depends on the overall kettle design and so can vary considerably. It is important that this time does not increase with use, however, it is one of the more common complaints that automatic switch off times tend to lengthen with use and for some models this will continue until the kettles will not switch off at all [/i]
Then make sure the kettle will not fail if its used 8 times a day for 5 years and you’re laughing.
I wonder how much we'd save if we switched off / unplugged everything we weren't using?
To quote David Mackay -
"If everyone saves a little - we'll achieve only a little".
How am I going to efficiently boil water for my pasta?
How much pasta do you need? 2 mugs of water would do a lot of pasta.
Do you have a gas hob? You do know that gas is far less carbon intensive than electricity don't you?
It's not a policy.
What is it?
It would be useful to know which appliances guzzle the most power when left on standby, and how much that would cost per year. That could motivate people to switch off.
What is it?
Lazy journalism, mostly.
See for yourself:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29004060
How much pasta do you need? 2 mugs of water would do a lot of pasta.
It'd do a lot of crap pasta; pasta needs a lot of water to move around properly as it cooks. But, alright then, I'm making a big pan of soup instead.
A comment on the story nails it.
[b]Araxmas [/b]
7 MINUTES AGO
Another non-story.
The EU commissions these research initiatives all the time, the problem is that the media pick it up and jump to conclusions about things being 'banned'.
How many times has the Daily Mail or UKIP gone on about toilet flushing, fishermen, compost, olive oil, danish pasteries .etc being banned? It is all bunk that is caused by them rushing to conclusions.
If you skimp on the water when cooking pasta it doesn't cook evenly and clumps together!
fasthaggis 😆
No wonder I don't eat pasta. Mine has always been crappy saucepan cooked.
Let's start by ensuring all offices turn off lights and computers at the end of their working day, wherever practical, obviously.
Free hats, compulsory socks with sandals and small generators implanted into the wrists of teenage boys, thus charging their smartphones with one hand whist watching them with the other.
andytherocketeer - Member
I'd aim at things like aircon. By definition inefficient. On for extended durations, and a net heat generator whose job is to make cold.
edit: or at least rule that they must be solar powered or something
This ^^^
A device which in most cases is required when it is hot and sunny and already requires pipework and cables running outside...
Also why not include water cooling for preheating Domestic hot water supplies?
To me, these are the sort of 'low hanging fruits' (bleurgh bullshit-bingo time!) that should be prioritised rather than short cycle appliances such as vacuum cleaners.
That said however, the kettle and corrie bit is very much an issue for energy generation purposes. With smart TVs and PVR's, it would be easy to phase homes to distribute the ad-breaks across the 15 minutes between existing peak loads.
I wonder how much we'd save if we switched off / unplugged everything we weren't using?
Not much nowadays. Modern chargers use very little when not being used for instance.
If you turn your central heating right up, and run all the burners/rings on your hob too, you'll increase the air temperature in the kitchen. This will decrease the temperature difference between the external surface of the kettle and the air and so it will lose less energy to its surroundings and be more efficient.
Afterwards, open your fridge and freezer doors to cool the kitchen back down again 😉
Let's start by ensuring all offices turn off lights and computers at the end of their working day, wherever practical, obviously.
Turning your computer off and on each day is not actually that efficient. The big start up buzz of the fans etc. draws a lot of power. Using proper power saving etc. and standby can be better.
Debates like this need facts not opinions.
Wouldn't worry too much about stuff on standby. There's already the 1W initiative, and the total consumption is peanuts. Certainly in terms of cost to you on your leccy bill (how much would 8kWh set you back?).
The answer there is Nintendo Wii (which are really bad in standby iirc), probably Xbox and PS3/4 too, your PC, and Sky box. And most of those (at least Sky/Freeview) really "need" to be kept on, since in Standby they actually do things.
I'd aim at things like aircon. By definition inefficient. On for extended durations, and a net heat generator whose job is to make cold.
edit: or at least rule that they must be solar powered or something
Aircon has been aimed at. Statute dictates that operators of AC must have a TM44 AC efficiency inspection every 5 years, and that systems must be leak tested periodically (they don't "make cold" though :D)
A 4kW PV panel which *could power a small split system would be 21 off 235w panels.
Let's start by ensuring all offices turn off lights and computers at the end of their working day.
Good luck with that! Automation is the key. People don't take ownership of light switches in places they don't pay the bills for.
If the Uk really wants to save energy, retail is the first place I'd start;
Make supermarkets put doors on chilled cabinets. Govt doesn't have the appitite for this.
Ensure supermarkets maintain their refrigeration to a reasonable standard (they don't).
Ensure that shops can't run AC with the ****ing doors wide open.
Zero lights after trading. I don't need to know that there's a primark in the area at 2300hrs!
Then onto commercial offices, homes etc. There are loads of things we could do but won't.
I used to work in the CIS in Manchester - couple of thousand people, most using PC's.
Last time the calcs were done when I was there it was decided it was more efficient to power down individual PC's at the end of the day.
Lights were left burning all night before movement detecting lights were fitted.
The problem was actually getting people to alter their behaviour.
There are loads of things we could do but won't.
Yep. This stuff is piss easy to do - a lot easier than forcing people not to fly anywhere.
yebbut everyone's changing 50W halogens to 5W LEDs so can leave them on longer
and probably need an extra 45Wh per light in additional heating in winter
stoffel - MemberI don't understand the fuss over the recent vacuumcleaner power reduction thing. Our Henry is 1200w max,yet much more efficient thant the 1600w Black and Decker crap it replaced.
Well after 2017 you won't be able to buy one of those either. 😆 900W limit.
probably need an extra 45Wh per light in additional heating in winter
Probably not...
2 hoovers 1 pipe
or replace all the carpets with wooden / laminate / lino floors (and pretend there was no energy expended in their making)
I recently saw the energy profiles for a supermarket which had been subject to a full LED lighting retrofit.
The results were frankly astounding. The baseline was halved.
andytherocketeer - Member
2 hoovers 1 pipeor replace all the carpets with wooden / laminate / lino floors (and pretend there was no energy expended in their making)
Why when you can get one that works perfectly well with a smaller motor. Big power numbers are a bit of a con, design something that works well with less power and it's all good.
Doesn't heat that is lost in an appliance - transfer to the surroundings, and add to the room temp, therefore a notch less on the CH?
Then it comes down to insulation.
Again, electricity is lots more carbon intensive (not to mention expensive) than gas.
I'm thinking rather than bin my old bulbs I should put them back into use over the winter.
Electricity is more carbon intensive or electric heating? I.e you can do things with leccy you can't do with gas.
I'm thinking rather than bin my old bulbs I should put them back into use over the winter.
I wouldn't - they only heat the ceiling, bit pointless for heating rooms. Unless they are downlighters, but probably not very efficient even so.
Put them all on the floor.
wrecker - Member
I recently saw the energy profiles for a supermarket which had been subject to a full LED lighting retrofit.
The results were frankly astounding. The baseline was halved.
did it have any effect on reducing the refrigeration loads due to lower store temperatures as well as just the lighting savings?
Electricity is more carbon intensive or electric heating? I.e you can do things with leccy you can't do with gas.
Electricity is more carbon intensive than gas, so it's not as simple as tyring to justify GLS lamps by saying you also get heat from them. Any perceived saving in gas by using heat from lamps is not equal in cost or carbon terms.
did it have any effect on reducing the refrigeration loads due to lower store temperatures as well as just the lighting savings?
I didn't dial down (not my project), but I can do. I think I still have the sub meter data saved down.
my wife fills up the kettle before making even one drink as saves her walking over to the sink so often.... It does seem to me that the one who isn't earning the money is less concerned about efficiency than the one who is - or is it just often a woman thing to leave things on when not needed?
I'd say it's a woman thing, my wife does the same, also falls asleep with TV and lights on most nights, boils pans with the lid off, but she's the main 'breadwinner' here.
I can't see the fuss with the vacuum cleaner thing either. Just imagine the innovation that would be happening if they did a similar thing with car engines?
Just imagine the innovation that would be happening if they did a similar thing with car engines?
They started, see the power/fuel that your typical american car does compared to the Japanese/Euro equivalent.
Why when you can get one that works perfectly well with a smaller motor. Big power numbers are a bit of a con, design something that works well with less power and it's all good.
Old technology high powered Hoover that could suck a golf ball through a garden hose , cheap to buy.
New wonder low powered Hoover that could suck a golf ball through a garden hose , really, it's a Hoover , I paid less than that for my first car .
Also, energy bill £400 reduced to £200 due to the enforced sale of wonder gadgets, shareholders hands are sore from rubbing them together at the thought of having the scope to be able to put prices up.
You know we don't sell as much so have to put our prices up and your bill is no more than it used to be, what's your problem .
You know we don't sell as much so have to put our prices up and your bill is no more than it used to be, what's your problem .
You know it's a finite resource the way it's currently being generated, you noticed that most of the gas for Europe comes from a country about to have a war with it's neighbour. Or that coal needs to be mined from less resources....
Just imagine the innovation that would be happening if they did a similar thing with car engines?
I would say engine capacities have decreased significantly over the last 10 years with high output engines. Lots of cars with 1.6L turbo petrol (like F1) instead of 2 litre NA petrol and 1.4 and 1.6 turbo diesel instead of 1.9/2 litre turbo diesels.
The question is whether these engines will last as long if you are factoring in the energy of manufacturing as well as using the car but I do seem to get the impression that the powers that be (not just the manufacturers) want us to change our cars more often.....
Total EU madness.
As noted by people being interviewed the lower powered devices take longer to do the job so its hard to argue they use less power.
I predict a significant business opportunity in mail order delivery of electrical devices from countries not subject to this non-sense.
jambalaya - Member
Total EU madness.
try reading the story
Araxmas
7 MINUTES AGO
Another non-story.
The EU commissions these research initiatives all the time, the problem is that the media pick it up and jump to conclusions about things being 'banned'.
How many times has the Daily Mail or UKIP gone on about toilet flushing, fishermen, compost, olive oil, danish pasteries .etc being banned? It is all bunk that is caused by them rushing to conclusions.
I might start a business in transformer home appliances.
ie a robot with a 2kw motor that just happens to be transformable into a working vacuum cleaner.
Sell them in the toy isle to avoid suspicion.
My first one will be called "Suckatron".
It's an efficiency drive.
Why have a high powered device when a lower powered more efficient device can do the same job.
It's the same with cars. Smaller engines that give the same performance as bigger engines did 15-20 years ago but are much more efficient.
It should force manufacturers to provide the consumer with a lower powered more efficient product, not just a lower powered one.
If it saves energy doing the same job then surely that's got to be a good thing?
