[Closed] BAA to strike over a measly 1% pay rise..

TJ - That's my point though - The unions are a barrier to the free market not the unemployment itself. In a free market as you say the price of labour would decrease with unemployment. The unions aren't letting this happen but if they did, more jobs could be created and so the unemployment decreases.

Erm, what unions are stopping this from happening? And why are we continually accepting a downgrading in our terms and conditions?

FG - you miss the point. The supply ( of labour) is fixed therefore no freemarket as supply of labour cannot be decreased.

Fro a freemarket to work you need all the variables - supply, demand and price to be flexible.

Jeezo - i can't believe that I have to explain how a freemarket works! and how many folk who believe in the freemarket don't understand it.

If there was no pool of unemploymed and an employer wanted to take on new staff he would have to pay enough to attract them from another job. Thus the employers would be competing with each other for employees which would force wages up.

However as there is a pool of unemployed the employer is not competing with other employers so there is no pressure to make wages rise.

Employment is not a free market as there is no way of reducing the supply of labour. If we shot the unemployed then it would function as a free market.

Education sector will not be getting any pay rises for the next two years.

Erm, what unions are stopping this from happening?

And prey tell how a union stops employers from recruiting from teh unemployed at minimum wage?

A 1% pay rise is effectively a pay cut, and the unions are striking to get a better offer.

Let me re-phrase that: A 1% pay rise is effectively a pay cut, "A" union is striking to get a better offer.

TJ - your scenario is as unstable as mine! 😉

Maybe there shouldn't be unions, maybe there should be an independent central body that agrees these things when they're disputed - kinda like ACAS but you let them decide the outcome based on suggestions from the interested parties.

And prey tell how a union stops employers from recruiting from teh unemployed at minimum wage?

And prey tell how a union stops employers from recruiting from teh unemployed at minimum wage?

Don't the unions influence pay bands?

Unions r saracin

Maybe there shouldn't be unions, maybe there should be an independent central body that agrees these things when they're disputed - kinda like ACAS but you let them decide the outcome based on suggestions from the interested parties.

There are plenty of suggestions the only reason Walsh got the job was to handle the unions. He is an ex-union rep himself for pilots so he knows the score. He'll get a nice payoff when he succeeds in sorting out the cabin crew.

Congratulations - you just invented Gosplan.

Yeah but it's not really the same thing now is it?

Yeah but it's not really the same thing now is it?

I am totally fed up of all these people causing grief for others, we have our honeymoon on the 30th Aug. flying from Heathrow to LA and really looks like going to be ruined. I mean what do they want from a company that is losing money, I had no pay rise this year Wife did and bonus but who cares we all have to suffer slightly in this market. To be truthful we are hardly suffering but that’s not the point.

FFS I'm sick of people who can afford to fly abroad for holidays moaning about other people trying to get as good a deal for themselves as possible.

FFS I'm sick of people who can afford to fly abroad for holidays moaning about other people trying to get as good a deal for themselves as possible

I'm sorry Mrs skip and i have worked bloody hard for our trip of a life time. Why shouldn't we spend our money on things we want when we've worked for it? Like i said before Mrs S works in the NHS so isn't on huge wages for all the hard work she and others in the service do. Bet you splash the cash on your bikes tho don't you or do you ride a Motorworld £59 special?? 😉

No? Didnt think so. I wont stop you spending your money and getting your goods so why should i pay for my holiday and then not have it because of them?

Rant over.

I've got a lot of sympathy for people who's travel plans are going to get screwed but I do have sympathy for the strikers. 1% is a paycut. I know times are tough but it's not right employers bully the employees into earning less (usually expecting them to do more) because they're an easy target. I'd like to see companies taking the same approach with ohter rising costs, e.g. no Mr electicity supplier I don't think I will pay your cost increases this year, the company can't afford it.

Any half decent management team will look for sustainable cost reductions funded through genuine efficiencies, not cost cutting or just refusing cost of living rises. Mind you they need to start doing this when things are going well, it's far to late when things turn bad, unfortunately most British managers don't seem to be able to see beyond the end of month figures and hey the good times will last forever because they, the management team have made things good and how could they possibly be wrong.

I just lost my job a few months ago after 16 years, basic story was sign a new contract or have your existing one terminated. I refused to sign. The new contract required me to do 5 hours extra work a week for significantly less money, the closure of the company pension, the company having the right to ask you to do 4 hours overtime a week, the first 4 hours overtime in any week to be paid at basic pay, no work, paid or unpaid to be done outside of work, removal of a guaranteed working week, i.e if your machine breaks down they can send you home with no pay, basically our union official said it was the most draconian contract he'd seen in 30 years. Anyway the union organised a series of one day strikes, but the MD had seen all this in advance and had been planning the contract change for a few months so stocks were built up in advance and the strike was undamaging to no one but us employees, the MD had also exploited every employment law he could to get these changes in nothing he had done was illegal. The union realised this and as a result told everyone to sign because there was nothing they could do, they also stated in no uncertain terms that anyone not signing the new contract would have no support from the union. I didn't sign cos i wasn't gonna take it up the harris anymore, luckily i found a new job in a few weeks. My point is that the unions are ultimately powerless these days and as such i wont be joining one again, i guess the BAA workers are exploiting the fact that it will all be high profile and very damaging to the companies public image to get what they see as their dues. I personally didn't see the point of us striking but did it through a sense of solidarity which was sadly misplaced in the end. We live in a democracy and striking, protesting, voicing your opinions etc is part of that. End of essay ha ha.

Don't worry The Doog, in the perfect future world of STW all business will be run this way.

I just lost my job a few months ago after 16 years, basic story was sign a new contract or have your existing one terminated.

How does that work then? You can be sacked like this?

Mrs Skiprat here....

I do feel sorry for people who have been hit by the recession and yes it is not on that people are expected to be demoted or do alot more work for less pay but....at least they have still got a job!! I think we should all remember that there are plenty of people out there who have lost their jobs and would be thankful to get a wage.. whilst other people think it is their right to be given bonuses

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Yup, he did it on a 30 day notice kinda deal, all perfectly legal in todays employee friendly world. I'm not moaning though, it was the kick up the arse i needed to go do something else, i got a relatively decent payout. It was the underhanded tactics that got me and the unions lack of any kind of recourse. I summed it up to a mate the other day, i was there 16 years, in that time we had about 10 different managers, all the same person in a different body, suit and tie, that kind of goobledegook only managers talk, blue sky thinking this, lets brainstorm that kinda bullshit, and everyone of them would tell us all how mind blowingly good they were in their old jobs. Why aren't you still there then i'd frequently ask. In my new job my manager refuses to be called a manager and is on the shop floor covered in oil and muck like the rest of us and he knows the job inside out.

I do feel sorry for people who have been hit by the recession and yes it is not on that people are expected to be demoted or do alot more work for less pay but....at least they have still got a job!!

Thats a good point, its crap people are out of work and can't find work but to expect employed people to take it in the ass becuase 'hey, least you've got a job' is a bit of a poor do. If employed people dont hang on to what they've got then when the employment market picks up emloyers will just employ people for the minimum amount of everything knowing they can do this ad infinitum because no one will dare complain.

....we should all remember that there are plenty of people out there who have lost their jobs and would be thankful to get a wage.

Yup.

And the government is determined to make a whole lot more people unemployed ...........which should obviously lead to a whole lot more people being [i]"thankful"[/i].

Like lambs to the slaughter.......meek, silent, and without any resistance.

How terribly British.

yes it i slegal if done properly but can also be constructive dismissal depending on circumstances.
Essentially some Unions are poor or some reps are as are some employers. Many employers would pay there staff eff all if they could get away with it. The sensible position is a reasonable balance to stop employers taking the pi55 and also to stop Unions downing tools beacuse they dont like the colour of the new chairs. There are aggressive antagonistic confrontational asshats on both sides. Too think only one side is wrong all the time is silly whichever side you blame.
Certainly the Unions are responsible for the vast majority of improvements in working conditions over time by standing up and challenging the employers.

Try being self employed many of us have cut our rates over the last couple of years by a lot more than 1% .I have quoted a third less on some and other work is at the same rate as 11 years ago !

This irritates me a lot.
Many (most?) people have spent the last 18months working to either prop up business, protect their own jobs, taking pay cuts/reduced hours etc Then you get sh1t like this. Grow up, look around you and behave like adults.

Unions r saracin

But they were good enough to fight for the terms and conditions which someone like you enjoys today. I suppose you are too stupid to realise that though.

Like lambs to the slaughter.......meek, silent, and without any resistance.

How terribly British.

I find it amazing that so many people are willing to go along with this...i mean this game called the free market. So while us individuals are competing with each other, those who are higher up the food chain who created this game carry on raking in millions.

It's a good game, while we are competing amongst ourselves, we are not competing with them. Divide and conquer.

Redundancy can be a necessary evil, work loads may have dropped so an organisation doesn't need so many people, genuine sustainable efficiencies can be made meaning not as many people are needed. In an ideal world this excess labour would be used to produce more goods for expanding markets, people retain jobs, business get stronger and everyone wins. Unfortunately when you have a had government like the previous one coupled with a world wide recession even the best run business is going to find things challenging. Not sure the current conlib government is much better, I'm all for cutting back public expenditure, I just want to make sure things that are pointless or wasteful get can, the cuts being announced at the moment seem to be rather arbitary or politically motivated, I don't think there has been enough time to have properly assesed what's important and what's not yet alone put inplace proper reorganisation plans. The whole school milk thing showed the political dimension. Free school milk probably is a luxary these days and no where near as beneficial to public helath as it was. So it was all due for canning until some one in call me Dave's office suddenly made a connection with Thatcher the Milk Snatcher. Not a good way to run a government.

As for managers, the best managers don't necessarily know their employees jobs inside out, that's what the employees are for. What a good manager will always remember though is that they add no value to the goods or services being produced, they are effectively a non value added overhead. They're only justifying their existance if they are helping the people adding value be more effective. Shame most managers think they are the most important people in the business, see how much money they make without people on the shop floor / behind the counter.

El-bent - Member

Unions r saracin

But they were good enough to fight for the terms and conditions which someone like you enjoys today. I suppose you are too stupid to realise that though.

If you'd actually looked at what I've already posted on this thread, you would have realised I'd already posted that. But of course I'm too stupid to have done so obviously.

So, take those keyboard warrior hands away from the computer and re-engage them in some liberal hand-wringing, there's a good boy.

so, there we are then- BAA reassesses their finances, decides that it can, after all, dig a little deeper into it's pockets, adds in a bit of profit related pay, and an agreement is reached. Not quite the end of civilisation, was it- if anything a reassertion of it.

And i still get to go on my holiday next week!!!! Yay!!

Thank you all for working it out. 😀

Thank goodness as I am due to fly out on Saturday.

Someone earlier on this thread asked if a strike had =ever done any good. I think the threat of a strike here has given the workforce the leverage to get a better deal so in this case it has.

Do the workers deserve a payrise tho? And can the company afford it?

[b][i]"Do the workers deserve a payrise tho?"[/i][/b]

Well if the employees turn up for work, then I see no reason why they should deserve a pay cut. And if they receive no pay rise, or a pay rise below the rate of inflation, then it represents a pay cut in real terms.

BAA employees received no pay rise last year, and the latest offer is well below the rate of inflation.

[b][i]"And can the company afford it?" [/i][/b]

That's not their problem. It is BAA's problem to deal with increase costs.

When the utility companies for example, increase their prices and bill BAA, BAA can't just tell them "the company can't afford it". The utility companies would simply reply "that's your problem - not ours".

The wages bill is no different to any other bill. Just because it concerns '[i]people's livelihood[/i]', doesn't mean that it shouldn't be paid in full.

And anyway, BAA presumably saved themselves a considerable amount of money last year by refusing to pay any increases in wages. And continue to do so this year by paying increases below the inflation rate.

The question which really should be asked, is "And can the employees afford the latest offer, when the retail price index is 4.8% ?"