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This may result in other eating disorders?
This is the hilarious thing about our culture. We're a nation of obese people who constantly fret about anorexia.
I wish a few people had told me I was fat (and meant it) when I was younger.
But fat is beautiful according to the Guardian! What do you mean you don't like fat chicks? You ****ing balding misogynistic creeps!
Your original post in it’s entirety:
Oh good try, but unfortunately that's my second post rather than my first.
Go back just a little bit further (clue: it's the one with the bloody big map) and you'll find the real first one
I'll even quote another part for you 'What we need to do is get more jobs and careers up north.... It would reinvigorate those areas, and stop the brain drain to the south east.'
Poulation density as a cause of obesity doesnt really add up, countries like Holland & belgium far more densely populated than the UK (tho similar to England alone) Germany would be best comparison, but all of those ****ries have far lower rates of obesity. Likewise weather is similar too.
Theres obviously multiple factors, our poperty market obsession means that developers are focused on squeezing in as many houses as possible, with healthy infrastructure way down the list of priorities. Public transport faires rise, petrol tax is frozen, integrated cycle infratsructure is a joke in many places.
The map of obesity overlays very well with maps of poverty in the UK.
The correlation in developed countries between poverty & obesity is very well doccumented.
walk through a poor neighbourhoods & youll be tripping over pizza & kebab shops, walk through a posher area & its all bistros & coffee houses.
UK is the processed food capital of Europe. https://www.tasteaholics.com/news/uk-leads-europe-in-the-consumption-of-ultra-processed-foods-16868/
just wait until brexit brings us the glories of a fully american diet!
Education on what & how to cook is part of it as once it becomes the 'cultural norm' to eat crap it sticks
good study in last moths nature https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0201-x
Diabetes costs almost as much as smoking does for the NHS now, we have no problem with heavy regulation & taxation of tobacco but food industry lobbyists have succesfully resisted this regulation for decades at EU & Uk government level.
The way we have pictures of cancer on fag packets should we have pictures of dibetics with amputated limbs on every box of Mr Kipling cherry Bakewells?
We've established that its mainly thicko northerners that voted for brexit.. but are they obese too? Maybe there's a strong link between being thick AND being fat...
northerners
Nope, was the Midlander, the gammon belt, us in the actual north voted against...
Isnt the Midlands just north of the clever rich southern border? Therefore included in the fatty hypothesis..
Oh good try, but unfortunately that’s my second post rather than my first.
Go back just a little bit further (clue: it’s the one with the bloody big map) and you’ll find the real first one
I’ll even quote another part for you ‘What we need to do is get more jobs and careers up north…. It would reinvigorate those areas, and stop the brain drain to the south east.’
Yup, I remember that post and agreed with it, didn't realize it was "you". So yeah, my bad, I didn't read the names and therefore completely missed your point, I apologise.
Solution is still the same, allow four objections from locals to stop any development. Job done. Houses would get build only where the locals want them, which would be in the places with excess space and/or declining populations.
Poulation density as a cause of obesity doesn't really add up
Population as a *sole* cause of obesity doesn't add up, but it must be a factor. If you can't play actively outsides you have to play inactively inside. Kids who play outside by definition are snacking less and more active.
Germany is far less densely populated than the UK, it also has a declining population so it's going in the right direction as far as space is concerned.
Theres obviously multiple factors, our poperty market obsession means that developers are focused on squeezing in as many houses as possible, with healthy infrastructure way down the list of priorities. Public transport faires rise, petrol tax is frozen, integrated cycle infratsructure is a joke in many places.
All of these are population related. Lower population, more land per person = lower housing density. Fewer people more space for infrastructure and less need for it.
The only problem I can see there that wouldn't be fixed by a lower population is Public transport cost - it might get more pricey but it would get a *lot* better.
This thread's about obesity and we've probably over represented population density as a cause of that so we can probably drop it.
Germany is far less densely populated than the UK
UK 272, Germany 232 /km2 closest big european country in terms of density
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries
and thanks to immigration germany has been able to increase its population (& thanks to its excellent education system) helping to keep its productivity high
whether its through how we build our towns & cities, educate our population or regulate food manufacture it can only come from government.
Deregulation & free the market obsession will only make things worse
I live in one of these low population areas and the kids are still fat. They still don't play out. And there's still no parks for them...
Whilst the available space may be a factor, I refuse to believe it is a significant contributor. We need to provide for, and encourage people of all age groups to get outside, regardless of population density. Our attitudes toward well-being, standards of living, and what we prioritise in our public spaces are key.
Population as a *sole* cause of obesity doesn’t add up, but it must be a factor.
Could be a factor but could also be because the parents are not letting the kids go out and play on their own. I grew up in a heavily populated area but either played in street, walked down road for a mile and played in playground, rode my bike to BMX track etc,. but that was because I had less protective parents than we seem to see today.
Could be a factor but could also be because the parents are not letting the kids go out and play on their own.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
...but I think we've analysed the 'wild space to play' factor enough now.
I'll lick your greyhound for a mars bar.
The way we have pictures of cancer on fag packets should we have pictures of dibetics with amputated limbs on every box of Mr Kipling cherry Bakewells?
No, because a lot of us 'diabetics' are Type 1 which has **** all to do with diet, is not self inflicted and winds me up no end when the media and some individuals lump type 1 and 2 into the same bracket.
No, because a lot of us ‘diabetics’ are Type 1
Votchy around 10% are type 1 as opposed to 90% who are type 2 according to Diabetes UK. The balance of lung cancer in non smokers compared to smokers is very similar. So if you think it reasonable that warnings should not appear on food stuffs as they offend you as a type 1 diabetes sufferer I assume you equally oppose warnings on cigarette packets as they might offend lung cancer victims who have never smoked.
Actually I don't think you think that at all and I'm sure in reality you wouldn't want anyone else to suffer the consequences of diabetes even if it is self inflicted. While I can understand your frustration at the way the media can simplify and portray the situation don't forget that they do that for absolutely everything. Not sure pictures on cherry bakewells will do any good but don't oppose any effort that is made because it offends you oppose it if you think it won't work or if you can put forward a better idea.
Its not a personal attack on diabetics, especially if its type 1
similarly not all cancer sufferers are smokers, I dont think its wrong to scare off smokers with warnings of cancer tho
avdave2 and kimbers: fair points and I agree with both, just vented a little frustration in the way some 'generalize' things
I recently found out my 7 year old nephew's primary school (in a small village) won't let him walk to school on his own until he's 9
Don't blame you votchy, the superficiality of a lot of media coverage is infuriating. A large percentage of media is now just a source of entertainment not of information.
Being fat is a lifestyle choice.
Really? How did you arrive at this premise?
You are not born fat. You might be born gay.
You choose to eat more than necessary. No one forces you to eat more than you need.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong alpin.
One word - hormones.
May I just park this here, see if you can find out what's wrong with it:
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/
If the country wasnt designed around cars then kids might be able to go outside without risking being run over and killed.
∆ that. Staying in the UK this week, always shocks me how fast the traffic is through the centre of a small town.
I thought I read somewhere that studies in the US showed calorie intake amongst kids hasn't risen significantly since the 70s whereas obesity has.
Yeah, cg, you're right.
It must be all those hormones making everyone fat.... Hormones, not gluttony. Not calories. Not laziness. Not shit awful food that is sold on every high street.
Saying that, I'm sure that hormones are an issue, albeit for a tiny minority of people. But it's a convenient excuse for the rest of the population with little self control.
Epicyclo and butcher appear to be today’s fully functioning adults on the thread. Well done for talking sense. Combine your posts and that’s pretty much everything covered.
alpin - did you look at that NHS link? Is that appropriate dietary advice for the majority of the population bearing in mind we're talking about relatively inactive people? Who benefits from said advice? The food industry of course, amongst whose shareholders will be MPs and the House of Lords. The truth is it suits whoever is in power cos if they were genuinely concerned about the welfare of its citizens and cost to the NHS then something would have been done a long time ago.
There should be regulation regarding fast food outlets, if I had my way we'd get rid of at least half and see a welcome reduction in litter.
How many people know how to cook a nutritious meal? There's enough cookery programmes on telly so they should know shouldn't they? Oh wait, it's become entertainment instead. I've said this before but we need to start making cookery lessons and health care education a priority in schools in addition to regular exercise. It's never too late to make changes and if people need help then they should get it.
The second or third, can't remember which, most prescribed pharmaceutical in the UK is for hypothyroidism. Affects 1 in 50 women but a lot less men and it's for life. For many one of the side effects is weight gain regardless of how little one eats and how much one exercises. Forget any help, sensible advice or indeed investigation from the health service, it just won't happen.
I’ve said this before but we need to start making cookery lessons and health care education a priority in schools in addition to regular exercise.
Schools cant do what parents havent and exercise is not the answer designing a country where people have to move more and not rely on cars is the fist step.
I recently found out my 7 year old nephew’s primary school (in a small village) won’t let him walk to school on his own until he’s 9
How do they enforce this given that their reponsibility only starts at the school gates?
Things sure have changed since I walked to school on my own from 5 crossing three (relatively quiet) roads on the way. But has the law changed? Junior always walked to school (from 2 1/2) but accompanied until 12. He then walked to school and back twice a day rather than put up with the canteen - he made his own lunch. 8km a day on foot is a good start to a healthy weight.
In the United States, hypothyroidism occurs in 0.3–0.4% of people
Doesnt explain the fatty epidemic
Not read the original link, but pleas tell me it’s not based on BMI? If it is then 99% of us will be classed as obese. It’s entirely ridiculous way of gauging healthy weight.
Rotherham is leading the charge
You are not born fat. You might be born gay.
You choose to eat more than necessary. No one forces you to eat more than you need.
Tell me if I’m wrong.
Or born ignorant. And yes, you are still wrong.
I'm not sure how my nephew's school enforce it. They must have some mechanism...
I actually think BMI is an excellent way to measure under/normal/overweight-ness. Because most people complain about it. Because most people are overweight. It is just our perception of normal that has been skewed. I'm at 25.5, which is just into the overweight category. And if I look at myself in the mirror objectively, I am carrying a little extra fat on me. I do have pretty good leg muscle mass from cycling, but I could lose a little blubber. But most people would think I look in good shape compared to your average guy in the street:
My main issue with BMI is that it does not account for gender. A woman at BMI of 24.9 will be carrying a lot more fat than a man at 25.1, but she is normal, he is overweight. Likewise, a man near the bottom of the ranking for "normal" would probably be considered underweight.
Schools cant do what parents havent and exercise is not the answer designing a country where people have to move more and not rely on cars is the fist step.
anagallis_arvensis - you're in education aren't you? Are cookery lessons on the timetable these days or how does it work? Are kids allowed to cycle to school or are there restrictions?
The barrier to so many improvements is the lack of will from Governments of whatever persuasion, unless there's some kind of monetary incentive it will be ignored.
The failure by Governments to look at the big picture, look beyond their 4 year tenure and to see how much money all this is costing the country is frankly a criminal matter yet they're not being held to account. I'll stop there with my rantette!!
It’s pretty shit for taking muscle mass in to account though and is roundly considered a crap way of judging weight. I’ve made some serious gains last year in regards to losing inches from my waist (where the majority of the fat was) and gaining inches elsewhere. My weight has remained pretty much the same though at around 12st 4lb. BMI would be the same.
BMI was designed as a population level measure - and so caution needs to be applied with individuals.
However, recently it's become clearer that BMI underestimates levels of unhealthy excess fat (esp visceral fat and around belly/waist) as better measurements of body composition become available and even through simple waist measurement. Simply put there are a lot of men with skinny arms and legs from sedentary lifestyle but with dangerous excess fat around waist, belly, torso generally who may not have an overweight or obese BMI. People of that type are more common than the rugby player types much quoted when people criticise BMI
Personally, I think BMI is a very good indication for population. For individuals it is one simple way that may indicate a problem but worth linking it too other measures such as waist measurement (not trouser size which is usually 2+ inches smaller for most men). Body composition can be useful as well but much more difficult to do accurately. To be honest - taking your top off and having an honest look in the mirror isn't a bad start.
Alpin.... I surmise that you are in fact 12 years old so this forum is no place for a child like yourself to make what I consider to be stupid and incendiary comments. Go away.
Personally, I think BMI is a very good indication for population.
Agree. It is not perfect and they are some use cases where it should be used with caution but the healthy range is fairly wide and in my opinion a good range for 99% of people. I have just tipped onto 25 and although I am in good shape (muscular arms, legs etc,.), like yourguitarhero I can see I am carrying excess fat. The excess fat is not causing any issues but I would prefer it not to be there.
I need to lose around 3-4kg to get rid of that fat and that is what I am doing over the next 3 months.
@ donk.... No. I'm still here.
I agree that for the general population BMI is a good measure of health. Obviously there will be a smaller number of people for whom it is not a good indicator of their health. Much the same that for a small minority hormones or type 1 diabetes may be a major factor in their weight.
British Society of Lifestyle Medicine:
In particular BSLM recognises the primacy of science, and promotes the adoption of practical tools in management of the wider determinants of lifestyle related disease. BSLM does not adhere to any single approach to nutrition, and encourages a range of dietary approaches that are supported by appropriate scientific evidence. It has no religious affiliations and no political affiliations.
The population would very much benefit if at least one clinician, public health professional or health practitioner in every town underwent training and became qualified. This would surely reduce the burden on GPs, health visitors, hospital consultants etc.
Been living in France for the past 18 months and was over in the UK at Christmas and we went for a meal at the Harvester.
We couldn't finish the main meal. Plate was massive.