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Asthma suffers and covid vaccination – are you expecting one?
I won't be holding my breath.
It's just a political hot potato. Figures are being manipulated.
eg Scottish government announces a few moments ago that the daily intake figures are down 46, then a few 'facts' later announces that 48 have died in the last 24h. Sounds like that decrease in intake is covered by those who have sadly died.
As above, I'll get it when I get it.
This is the completely rewritten article
following alot of noise from the asthmatic community
And much more reflective of current position
Everyone over the age of 18 will have been offered the Vaccine by late summer (in theory) in reality I think local GP's will bump as many people as possible in to the clinical vulnerable group
Just random aside.
I had my vaccine, 1 week later I was on antibiotics for a chest infection, and now I am on an inhaler for post viral/infection asthma. There has got to be a conspiracy theory there somewhere.
eg Scottish government announces a few moments ago that the daily intake figures are down 46, then a few ‘facts’ later announces that 48 have died in the last 24h. Sounds like that decrease in intake is covered by those who have sadly died.
No I think you've misunderstood the numbers. Once I've got the data later I'll clarify but the danger with the vast transparency they have around the data is that people misquote their meaning.
This is the completely rewritten article
following alot of noise from the asthmatic community
And much more reflective of current position
Yeah, first one was a bit of a muddle. I tweeted the reporter about it.
The bit which implied (through omission) that inhaled steroids could render the patient more vulnerable to infections might be considered be a tad alarmist for the millions who use them in the UK!
The original (and incorrect) version of the story has been copy and pasted into numerous newspaper articles (ie the sun), which isn’t helpful and sets false expectation
Yep I read the bit about the reduction in immunity, had assumed that was for high dose steroids but as you say it isn’t clear.
It’s the constant contradictions that cause confusion. The nhs have an ironically entitled ‘easy read guide’ to vaccinations, in which use of daily steroid inhaler is still a criteria for inclusion, yet that’s not reflected in Jcvi.
Another example is Prof Van Tam in his q&a yesterday saying the lists had been drawn up based purely on death rates, but then in next breath stated they are half way through a vaccination programme designed to reduce both deaths AND hospitalisation.
The good news of course is that we seem to be smashing through the population, so regardless of priority groups Everyone will get a jab eventually
62 year old with moderate asthma ( controlled by medication ) and I got a txt from my GP yesterday advising I am in group 6 and as such should expect an invite in the next couple of weeks 🤗
The good news of course is that we seem to be smashing through the population, so regardless of priority groups Everyone will get a jab eventually
I guess at some point rather than keep on smashing, they will have to circle around and re-jab the first groups, which will slow progress down a bit.
I guess at some point rather than keep on smashing, they will have to circle around and re-jab the first groups, which will slow progress down a bit.
This is very true - see announcement in Scotland today about supply and second doses.
I think some people will be surprised at this - there's many optimistically thinking they will get one quickly as we're doing well at the moment.
62 year old with moderate asthma ( controlled by medication ) and I got a txt from my GP yesterday advising I am in group 6 and as such should expect an invite in the next couple of weeks 🤗
Yet I now know of numerous people with asthma that regularly causes them issues, ie not particularly well controlled, that have explicitly been told they aren't in group 6 by their gp. There is no consistency.
Count yourself fortunate you are definitely in the minority of moderate sufferers, as things stand!
Read this thread with interest. 53, asthmatic from early childhood. Hospitalised twice while at Uni. Switched to Symbicort 12 years ago which made a massive difference to management. Rarely take Ventolin. Asthma check every year at GP. So fairly sure they know I'm on the good side of mgt (peak flow is okay, BP is low, weight is fine, pretty fit generally, etc)
I tell you all this because yesterday I received a text offering me a vaccine next week. I live in Herefordshire which has a very ageing population, so I was very surprised. Checked with my surgery to make sure it wasn't spam, and they told me they're offering it to anyone on their books who is flagged with any kind of chronic respiratory disease regardless of management.
Don't want to get anyones hopes up, but thought it was worth sharing.
Sounds like leaving it to individual GP practices or groups is leading to a multitude of different interpretations of fairly vague guidance. Some extremely mild asthmatics will be offered jabs from now on, while some who, like me, probably has a course of systemic steroids once a year or so, are maxed out on dosage of three drugs, and were asked to shield last year, are still waiting to find out...
Just another NHS postcode lottery.
Yeah that's a rubbish situation for you Martin. I didn't hesitate to get booked in once I'd spoken to the surgery. I did ask if was the same for all of Herefordshire, but they could only speak for their practice.
Also when I booked in there were LOTS of slots on Weds, Thur and Fri.
I'm pretty sanguine about it TBH. Even once I get one, my wife is a mildish asthmatic (in her 40s) and I won't be able to change behaviour until she is jabbed nearer the summer. Just seems like another case of pisspoor messaging. There are millions of asthmatics out there who will be wondering what's going on.
Thanks @sofaman. Apparently I should have already had my invite, then.
Pretty narrow pool of potential group 6 patients. Asthmatics without isolated history of severe or prolonged exacerbation won't be prioritised. Also possible that there will be plenty with equally bad episodes who were managed successfully in primary care without the need for either admission or so many consecutive steroid courses. Is that a normal prescribing pattern for severe episodes?
My mate's wife and son have been given a date for vaccination - both have asthma, although the son has 'grown out of it'.
The other thing that concerns me about the Asthma UK info is that it hasn't necessarily been disseminated to GPs - what status does it have? Doesn't matter what clarification they've been given, if it is not communicated to those placing patients into priority groups, nothing will change.
The other thing that concerns me about the Asthma UK info is that it hasn’t necessarily been disseminated to GPs – what status does it have? Doesn’t matter what clarification they’ve been given, if it is not communicated to those placing patients into priority groups, nothing will change.
Their message today just reflects the jcvi green book guidance really, ie systemic drugs and hospital visit.
The 'hospitilization' bit is pretty vague however. How long ago does the hospitilization have to have been?
Alex seems to have well controlled asthma yet 30 years ago went to hospital, which makes him eligible for vaccination. Yet folk I know have flare ups at slightest cold, on multiple drugs, yet haven't ever been hospitalized, so don't qualify. That's obviously ridiculous.
Then you have fossy's example, where someone, presumably young, and has grown out of their asthma gets a jab.
Alex seems to have well controlled asthma yet 30 years ago went to hospital, which makes him eligible for vaccination. Yet folk I know have flare ups at slightest cold, on multiple drugs, yet haven’t ever been hospitalized, so don’t qualify. That’s obviously ridiculous.
I would completely agree. Surely it'd be better to look at last 3-5 years! Although having done a bit of work on NHS data integration, I'm not convinced all my prior data would have survived multiple NHS system transitions... I've neer mentioned those episodes to my current practice.
https://twitter.com/asthmauk/status/1360545639113912320
This seems slightly different though. I've not seen 'shielding letter = jab' expressed so clearly before. Also the '3 courses of steroids in 3 months' seems to be a definition of 'regular systemic steroids' we've not had before.
I was hospitalised for pneumonia/asthma about 10 years ago. My wife was hospitalised when she was a child with it. Does that count as an asthma exacerbation?
Also, when they say 'shielding letter', do they mean recently? I had one in the first lockdown, another saying I was clinically extremely vulnerable in the second, but nothing this time around.
Also, when they say ‘shielding letter’, do they mean recently? I had one in the first lockdown, another saying I was clinically extremely vulnerable in the second, but nothing this time around.
I fail to see how they could possibly argue that you aren't eligible if you've had a shielding letter at some point.
All nhs sites still saying non severe asthma is a risk factor, they really need to change that asap. It's one of the reasons everyone is so pissed off, many saw the guidance and voluntarily shielded, and up until days ago had assumed they were part of group 6. The government even published an 'easy read guide on vaccination' start of Jan, which specifically said that inhaled steroids was the inclusion criteria. Expectations have been set so people see this as a massive uturn
The data used for defining criteria is based on deaths. I've always been pretty confident I ain't going to die with covid so whilst reassuring to hear, what we really want to know is what is the additional risk to asthma sufferers of more severe disease, and how will it affect our asthma post covid.
It stands to reason that if you have compromised lungs to begin with, a disease which can permanently reduce lung function ain't good for asthmatics, and lots of people saying their asthma is far worse after covid ( including a fella on main thread). Likewise studies show that long covid is more prevalent in asthma sufferers.
Lots of disappointed asthma sufferers today, although i had seen this coming for a while so not remotely surprised.
I fail to see how they could possibly argue that you aren’t eligible if you’ve had a shielding letter at some point.
Well, the NHS booking site for jabs invites applications from 'clinically extremely vulnerable', which is the phrase used in the shielding letter first time around. So I went through the process this afternoon, but it punted me back out saying I didn't qualify. So perhaps the goalposts have been shoved along a bit.
I guess I'll have to bother my GP about it after all.
I'm getting my jab tomorrow. I was very surprised to get the message (46yo, fairly fit and healthy with mild asthma that's well controlled with Clenil and Ventolin). My in-laws with various health conditions only got theirs last week. I'm in London.
So perhaps the goalposts have been shoved along a bit.
Are you talking about group 4 or group 6 eligibility?
If we are talking asthma here, yes the goalposts have moved, but surely not to the extent that someone who was told to shield previously is now not going to get a jab in group 6..? Id be on to the gp first thing Monday if I was you.
I'm miles off shielding level, so not in same boat as you at all.
I’m getting my jab tomorrow. I was very surprised to get the message (46yo, fairly fit and healthy with mild asthma that’s well controlled with Clenil and Ventolin). My in-laws with various health conditions only got theirs last week. I’m in London.
So basically exactly the same as me (although id say mine is moderate based on peak flow, same drugs though), yet I'll be waiting until 2nd half of year most probably.
And people question why some asthmatics are slightly pissed off by the whole thing!
If we are talking asthma here, yes the goalposts have moved, but surely not to the extent that someone who was told to shield previously is now not going to get a jab in group 6..?
As you point out, the differences between group 6 and group 4 are pretty minimal. Both definitions are very much at the very severe end of the asthma scale. I was put in the shielding category primarily because of the high dosages I was on rather than any hospitalisations/steroid blitzes, and if that has been jettisoned as a marker of severity, I could be in the waiting room with the moderates and milds.
I certainly don't meet the 'revised' clinical definitions for group 4, so I'm surprised to see the statement that everyone who has been asked to shield should qualify. My view is that this is some Department of Health chat which will be walked back fairly rapidly next week.
I have asthma and as I (now) work in NHS was lucky enough to have had my jab mid January. I also had a positive antibody test and believe I had Covid last March. I have recurrent episodes of unusually tight chest and hurts when I work hard (and asthma normally well controlled), initially roughly every 4-5 weeks after (believed) initial virus. Beginning of Jan getting increased chess tightness/soreness and has chest X-ray 2 weeks ago. Luckily clear, and GP has increased my steroid dose. I'm convinced my asthma has been affected by Covid, or it's some aspect of long Covid.
I’m convinced my asthma has been affected by Covid
Tons of people are saying the same thing, and it's not really surprising given nature of covid is it
Chat now is of asthma uk lobbying to get asthmatics vaccinated at the start of the 2nd phase, based on evidence of more severe illness and long covid. Given they seem pretty useless I'm not holding my breath ( pun intended) that they'll get anywhere with that.
I’m convinced my asthma has been affected by Covid
I'm increasingly convinced I had Covid back in September, just after the kids went back to school. One day of mild symptoms, but my asthma has not been as well controlled since, and was really bad over Christmas. @Clink - I was prescribed Montelukast after the latest episode, and it appears to have made a difference. Might be worth asking to give it a try if you're struggling. Coincidentally, Montelukast has been touted as a possible 'long Covid' drug, not just for asthma.
Some extremely mild asthmatics will be offered jabs from now on, while some who, like me, probably has a course of systemic steroids once a year [...]are still waiting to find out…
Most surgeries are using the following determinations on their population searches
1. Has diagnosis of asthma -YES
2. Has been prescribed asthma medication in the last 12 months -YES
3. Aged between 16-64 -YES
You're in group 6
The other thing that concerns me about the Asthma UK info is that it hasn’t necessarily been disseminated to GPs – what status does it have?
None
Just gave a skim read of the study which defined the criteria for the priority groups, and how they came up with the fact that asthmatics are apparently at no greater risk of death, and as far as I can tell there is a fairly large flaw.
Asthmatics seem to have been grouped as one population, rather than being defined by severity. The study shows death rates amongst those who got covid and have asthma. But stands to reason that this would be massively skewed towards those asthmatics with a very mild form of the disease who have therefore not been taking the same precautions to avoid contracting it.
All the guys like Martin who were initially told to shield (And the data is from first wave so that's important to note) would be taking social distancing far more seriously, and as such more severe forms of asthma would be underrepresented.
seems to have well controlled asthma yet 30 years ago went to hospital, which makes him eligible for vaccination.
It doesn't work like that. The difference for when you get a call is more likely to be how quickly the vaccination site is getting through the priority groups above group 6, and the availability of vaccine. Where I work, we've paused as we're already through groups 1-5. we're having to wait for other sites near us to catch up. In other parts of the country where the elderly population is larger, are still working their way through those groups.
Just gave a skim read of the study which defined the criteria for the priority groups, and how they came up with the fact that asthmatics are apparently at no greater risk of death, and as far as I can tell there is a fairly large flaw.
Asthmatics seem to have been grouped as one population, rather than being defined by severity. The study shows death rates amongst those who got covid and have asthma. But stands to reason that this would be massively skewed towards those asthmatics with a very mild form of the disease who have therefore not been taking the same precautions to avoid contracting it.
All the guys like Martin who were initially told to shield (And the data is from first wave so that’s important to note) would be taking social distancing far more seriously, and as such more severe forms of asthma would be underrepresented.
This is true. I've been in fewer than five shops since last February and am still washing all my food deliveries...and may have caught it anyway!
You would hope that they would manage to find a way to analyse the data to avoid this kind of confounding.
It doesn’t work like that. The difference for when you get a call is more likely to be how quickly the vaccination site is getting through the priority groups above group 6, and the availability of vaccine.
I don't think that's the case. I wont be getting an invite in group 6 regardless of how quickly my local site get through the groups as i dont meet the criteria now the goalposts have been changed.
Asthma uk are giving out very clear criteria for group 6 which has come after extensive clarification from government. If you have had steroid tables 3 times in 3 months, or have 'ever' had a hospital admission you make it into group 6. Anyone else will be vaccinated after the first 9 groups.
Someone even queried if this included childhood admission many years ago and asthma uk responded yes.
I don’t think that’s the case. [...] i dont meet the criteria now the goalposts have been changed.
We haven't changed our criteria for Group 6, and we've not been asked to change them. In our PCN we're inviting folks as I've described above, and I know of large amounts of GP practices that are using the same searches we are. If you were a pt at our surgery, (and like Alex) you'd be getting a text.
TBH though, we're getting through this pretty quickly, it'll only be a matter of weeks before you'll meet the criteria for group 9 anyway. so it'll probs not make a massive difference either way.
Asthma uk are giving out very clear criteria for group 6 which has come after extensive clarification from government.
TBH, I don't care what Asthma UK are saying...Or what the Govt have clarified...We downloaded our searches as a package weeks ago, (when we started the vaccine programme)
Got my jab this morning, but actually I don't think I got it due to my asthma. I think it's more likely because I'm registered as a carer for my daughter. Sorry for getting up the hopes of other asthmatics!
I'm 49 with sports induced asthma and I've had my covid invite this morning. I'm booked in for my first jab on Wednesday. Midlands based.
So why the inconsistency then? Why am I being told I'm definitely not getting in group 6, and likewise why are loads of other people with asthma way worse than me getting told the same thing?
And if you were in our shoes, what can we do about it?
And then we have this..
https://twitter.com/RobT049/status/1360703434417135618?s=19
Edit..no idea if that screenshot is genuine tbf
So why the inconsistency then? Why am I being told I’m definitely not getting in group 6
Because: Humans. As a PCN we've all agreed to use the same imported searches (Ours are from Ardens, the group that provides searches for EMIS and System One which are our in house systems for pat management), so there's consistency. I know other GP practices who're aren't using the same searches, or it's some-ones job in the Practice to do the searches manually. so there's always going to be inconsistencies.
And if you were in our shoes, what can we do about it?
we have a list of folk who have asked for a call should there be any spaces. Perhaps your surgery has something similar? As for that tweet, we've also had to cancel clinics through lack of staff (esp on a Sunday) we don't look through the list an cancel folks if they have Asthma
My 24 year old daughter got hers in Chester this week. She has mild seasonal asthma but has been prescribed medication for it within the last year so I guess that's how she qualified. I'm 60 with no health issues and I've got my vaccination appointment next week. Guess they are smashing through the lists in our area.
My 24 year old daughter got hers in Chester this week. She has mild seasonal asthma but has been prescribed medication for it within the last year so I guess that’s how she qualified. I’m 60 with no health issues and I’ve got my vaccination appointment next week.
I'm very envious of this sort of thing. I've got asthma but I'm 65 so moving asthmatics to group 6 makes no difference to me, but our PCN says:
We will be moving to priority group 5, 65-70 years old, as soon as vaccination slots are available to us.
We are expecting vaccine supplies to fall nationally in the coming weeks so are not able to provide any further information on when this will be
Mrs R has a condition more serious than asthma but doesn't know if she's in group 6 or 7 - it's not just asthmatics that have unclear guidance - so I'm assuming I may get a vaccine by the end of March and she's assuming April. Got to manage your expectations and all that...
we have a list of folk who have asked for a call should there be any spaces. Perhaps your surgery has something similar?
Worth a shot, need to call them about some blood tests next week so can ask then. Thanks.
@tpbiker - saw this and thought of you...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56069455
Looks like my wife might be prioritised as she spent a week in hospital about 3/4 years ago due to an asthma attack.
Yep that reflects exactly what everyone found out at the weekend. Tbh it reflects what was always in the jcvi so not a surprise to me. But it was very surprising to alot of folks judging by the outrage on Twitter.
Whilst the data the decision has been based on (deaths) is fundamentally flawed for asthma (as it doesn't take into account severity and social distancing), the focus now should be on getting us all priority in the next phase. The government themselves have identified that the only medical condition associated with long covid are lung conditions including asthma, so hopefully they will take this into account, along side the key workers who I fully expect to also (rightly) get priority.
Just had the email which includes the official letter from nhs England advising only asthmatic patients with previous admissions or continuous oral steroids should be in group 6. Unlike nickc and lots of other practices we don’t use ardens for our searches so I expect someone at the medicines management team at our ccg will construct a search which will only invite these patients. However our clinical system (emis) is still telling me that patients with any regular meds for asthma are in group 6. So you can see why there is confusion. All caused by lack of clarity from the centre. Someone on R4 this morning trying spin that it was good news for all those millions of asthmatics under 50 who now are at the back of the queue.
They do like to make things difficult for us all!
Someone on R4 this morning trying spin that it was good news for all those millions of asthmatics under 50 who now are at the back of the queue
Asthma uk tried to put that spin on it to us to. It did not go down well with their supporters as you can imagine!
Frustrating, especially as from what I've seen loads of asthmatics no worse than me are getting the jab, but it is what it is. Certainly not the practices fault, clearly you guys are getting mixed messages as well.
Asthma UK have certainly dropped a bollock with their 'anyone asked to shield will get one' tweet over the weekend. Poor comms from them, they should have got it in writing before spouting off. But generally just poor comms overall from NHS England to both the public and practices, as usual.
One other issue is what qualifies as a hospital admission - normally there is some kind of trigger for a massive asthma exacerbation - a chest infection or allergic reaction. I was hospitalised for pneumonia about 10 years ago, does that count?
getting mixed messages
We get no messages other than what’s already been leaked to the press. Hence I found out this was an issue here on STW
At our regular meeting here our PCN clinical director saw no reason to exclude asthma suffers from Group 6. His reasoning was (to my mind) pretty sound, group 6 are those folk who’d normally get a flu jab in winter, it seems counter productive therefore to exclude them from a different respiratory disease just on the grounds of severity. We’ll continue to invite all asthma suffers in our PCN for a COVID vaccine. Any official instruction to change that better come in the next few days otherwise we’ll have jabbed them already!
I've just had my vaccination offer cancelled, i'm quite pleased as it means i am too young at this stage.
His reasoning was (to my mind) pretty sound, group 6 are those folk who’d normally get a flu jab in winter, it seems counter productive therefore to exclude them from a different respiratory disease
Exactly, although it looks like you guys are in the minority taking this approach....and I wonder how many asthmatics will be thinking why bother getting a flu jab next year if I'm apparently not severe enough to get a covid vaccination.
I’ve just had my vaccination offer cancelled, i’m quite pleased as it means i am too young
I've heard of a few folks this has happened to. I think if you've been offered one already it's pretty poor to be rescinding the invite.
Ffs..
Someone asks the vaccine minister why the change. He categorically states that if you have an inhaler you are in group 6..completely contradicting advice of last 24 hrs
This despite the likes of @docrobster receiving guidance to the contrary from nhs england only today
They really need to get their act in order here, the mix messages are completely unfair.
I've just booked in for a vaccination, had anyone else been offered one?
I'm 34, take steroid inhaler twice a day and was hospitalised when I was a small child a couple of times. Last asthma attack was 10 years ago now, since then I've followed the now wife's advice to actually take my inhaler.
I half expect to have been scammed or to be turned away at the door.
Oh based in Greater Manchester too.
That should qualify you if you've been in hospital, as it's not date limited.
Vaccine minister apparently just on tv now, backtracking on his advice from yesterday and saying he got it wrong and most asthmatics aren't included.
You couldn't make it up really..
I've had a call from my doctor this morning booking me in for a vaccine on Friday. I've never been hospitalized due to asthma. I've had steroids, the last time was 3 weeks ago, but never 3 lots in 3 months. Very pleased to be offered it.
Got an appointment for next Friday morning for my jab. Surprised been offered one so soon.
Got notification today & Vaccine booked for Monday - long term asthma but no oral steroids or hospitalisation. Asthma managed very well with Symbicort 🤷♂️
I had a different long term illness but that was fully cured two years ago and wasn't something that was effecting my day to day health - it was a long term issue. Wife says that might have been flagged as well (she's a clinical commissioner).
Meanwhile over on Twitter the asthma uk followers are going ballistic.
Take for example my pal, numerous a&e visits in last ten years, numerous steroid tablet prescriptions. But as the a&e didn't lead to hospital admission, and because the steroids weren't 3 times in 3 months, she isn't prioritised
Meanwhile half a dozen folks on this thread announce that they have well controlled asthma, haven't met any of the new criteria, and yet already have a jab date.
Don't begrudge any asthmatic getting it obviously, but it's pot luck if you get invited or not which is total bullsh*t. It should be all or none.
I agree, it's not right that some are being offered and some not. Also, a past hospital admission doesn't necessarily reflect the current state of someone's asthma. My brother's ex was admitted to hospital with breathing difficulties and was diagnosed with asthma. As soon as she was prescribed an inhaler, she was fine. Under the new guidelines she qualifies, but your friend doesn't. I hope your friend's GP decides she should be included.
Mine certainly didn't feel well controlled 3 weeks ago, but I've been ok since the steroids.
MrsF just had email, 49, slight asthma, but is also registered as a carer for her mum - she also beat me to it for the flu and I'm 51. Good news.
I haven't had notification, but NHS site just let me in to book - 51 with probably moderate to severe asthma under the current description (asked to shield in lockdown 1). Yay!
I'm having to schlep to Bradford for it, but I can manage that.
Worth other people popping their details just in case if they believe they have anything tending towards severe asthma.
https://www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-vaccination/
My wife was offered hers last week by the GP (37 mild asthma but a bad hospitalisation 3 years ago). They didn't know what criteria had meant she was offered it but told her she was on the list so get it done.
Ironically she also started her job as a marshall at the Derby Arena which is the mass vaccination site so was offered one through that as well so had lots of opportunities last week. I am just glad she has had it. I am the only one in the immediate family who hasn't had it now (I am the only person who doesn't work in the NHS, emergency services or the care industry!).
37 mild asthma but a bad hospitalisation 3 years ago
An asthma related hospital admission qualifies her, although it surely can't be that mild if she ended up needing an admission!
It's pretty annoying that officials keep referring to those asthma sufferers excluded from the criteria as having 'mild' asthma. There is a whole spectrum of asthma between the severity required to be in the priority groups, and those that use ventolin one in a blue moon during exercise.
Worry for me is that all evidence points to asthmatics being more succeptable to both long covid and more severe disease. The fact that learning disabilities and others managed to reverse the decision to be excluded, and asthma didn't, is reflective of how absolutely ineffective asthma uk were, eventually kicking up a fuss 2 days before the under 50s group was announced.
I'm lucky enough to be in group 10, but if I was a 25 year old key worker with asthma id be furious.
Worry for me is that all evidence points to asthmatics being more succeptable to both long covid and more severe disease.
CEBM's recent rapid review seems not to agree with this -
Whether PWA increases risk of infection or severe outcomes from COVID-19 remains unclear. There is no consensus from systematic reviews, and high quality primary studies report conflicting results in some areas.
Will people stop using "sufferers" Its really annoys me
People who have asthma or people living with asthma please or even asthmatics! 😉
Wheezy ****ers is the clinically appropriate term, TJ.
tjagain
Will people stop using “sufferers” Its really annoys me
Why? I do suffer with it. I have done for most of my life. It is for some a debilitating lifelong condition.
seems not to agree with this –
Kings study disagrees ..as do numerous others
It should be pointed out that the studies used to define priority groups is fundamentally flawed as there is no differentiation in asthma severity or type. The data is taken from first half of 2020, when many folks with severe asthma were shielding. So when they say 'people who had asthma didn't die from covid ' , that study group will have been massively skewed towards the folks with asthma who weren't taking as much care to avoid getting it. Those guys tend to not be the population with severe asthma. The study paper even calls this out as a limitation of its findings.
Will people stop using “sufferers” Its really annoys me
Why..I suffer from asthma, hence I'm an asthma sufferer.
Why..I suffer from asthma, hence I’m an asthma sufferer.
Because it's annoying TJ. How about 'airway impaired'?
Its a flip point and its about the social definition of disability rather than the medical one.
Its not a turn of phrase used in the medical world anymore
But as I said its a flippant point.
As a PWA (not come across that term before but it's what Oxford CEBM use - "person/people with asthma", and given the discussion above I can perhaps see why they came up with it) who has had the jab I no longer have any skin in the game but I still follow the research when I can find it. And Mrs R has also had the jab (she has a condition that's rare enough to not even come up in studies, shielding or priority lists; the doctor vaccinating her said "gosh, you really need this don't you") so I no longer need to be cross with the people trying to push ahead of her in the queue. But:
Kings study disagrees ..as do numerous others
By Kings study I guess you mean the analysis from the Zoe app results. This says:
While asthma was not reported as a factor of risk for hospitalisation in <sup>11</sup>, its association with Long-COVID warrants further investigation.
which contrary to the view of the PWA lobbyists (who knew there was such a thing) is not a smoking gun supporting their prioritisation in the vaccine queue, it just suggests more research needs to be done. And the aim of the CEBM meta review is to avoid cherry picking results that support any particular view. My advice - just go by what your GP says, they probably know better than anyone.
its association with Long-COVID warrants further investigation.
And whilst we are investigating maybe a good idea to err on side of caution no?
Simple fact is covid attacks the lungs. In those with moderate to severe asthma the lungs are already compromised. It doesn't take a genius to work out that could be an issue.
Any study I've seen that suggests asthma isn't a risk factor doesn't stratify the risk by severity of disease. I don't think for a second that if you only have to use your ventolin every other week you are at greater risk. However there are numerous degrees of the severity between that and group 6 qualification. I know folks who have been to a&e multiple times, the common cold leaves them struggling to breath, and who regularly take 4 meds on a daily basis just to breath normally. Yet they don't qualify for the jab against a disease that affects the lungs?
It's also interesting to note that their are not such strict criteria on any other ailment that was previously called out as a risk factor. Take LD for example..Even mild cases qualify for group 6.
Anyway..as mentioned I'm in group 10 and my asthma isn't as bad as many so I should be good
Still a crappy desicion imo though..
And whilst we are investigating maybe a good idea to err on side of caution no?
Not necessarily - don't forget, for everyone that's pushed up in the priority someone else is getting pushed down, and if that's every PWA it's nearly 5M people being pushed down, so someone has to decide if it's increasing or reducing overall risk/pressure on ICU etc. Thankfully vaccination rates now appear to be sufficient that this isn't quite the issue it was.
Not necessarily – don’t forget, for everyone that’s pushed up in the priority someone else is getting pushed down, and if that’s every PWA it’s nearly 5M people being pushed down,
So you were against all folks with learning disabilities getting it then I take it?
Besides it's not 5 million. That would include all children plus those older folks who qualify in groups 1-9 already. It would be about 2mil based on steroid inhaler use. And personally if that means a healthy 40 year old has to wait a week longer to ensure a 25 year-old who requires multiple drugs for their asthma gets it as a priority, then I'm ok with that. As it is that 25 year old will be waiting until July for a jab.
Furthermore, the issue is not that asthmatics wanted pushed up in the priority list. The issue was they were told since day one they were at clinical risk, indeed many had been told to shield for most of last year. If you know anything about the subject you'll also know that for some reason group 4 and group 6 for asthmatics has exactly the same criteria..why's that do you think?
The ommision of most of the others from group 6 was a decision based on death stats which I've already pointed out are fundamentally flawed.
And personally if that means a healthy 40 year old has to wait a week longer to ensure a 25 year-old who requires multiple drugs for their asthma gets it as a priority, then I’m ok with that.
If I were making these decisions at a population level, it's quite possible that I'd look at the evidence for increased risk in PWA and say it's not visible whereas the increase in risk with age is clear. So I would prioritise the 40 year old. If the 25 year old has multiple drugs that control their asthma I'd be happy for their GP to make a judgement at an individual level, they may want to put them in group 6.
Edit: Asthma UK seems to agree with me.
Asthma UK seems to agree with me.
So why then have Asthma uk have publicly come out and said that there is evidence asthma is a risk factor for more severe disease and that they think all asthmatics should be prioritised before the under 50s? They even started a petition on the matter.
I’d look at the evidence for increased risk in PWA and say it’s not visible
Well the risk for long covid was visible and required further investigation. The risk for death wasn't, but you keep skipping over the point that they didn't stratify asthmatics by severity, so the data used for ommision is flawed.
You also keep saying 'it's down to the individual gp' but this is totally ignoring the fact some take a hard line and some show flexibility. Hence why some folks on here have had the jab despite, by their own admission, having mild asthma. Yet my friend hasnt despite being told to shield in March last year, plus requiring a fairly high strength inhaler, daily montelukast tablets plus numerous visits to a&e and occasional oral steroid prescriptions.
Btw..
And Mrs R has also had the jab (she has a condition that’s rare enough to not even come up in studies, shielding or priority lists; the doctor vaccinating her said “gosh, you really need this don’t you”
So vaccinated through an abundance of caution rather than because of any hard evidence of increased risk? All I'm doing is suggesting we do the same for all severe asthmatics.
Well the risk for long covid was visible and required further investigation.
Tim Spector and co were careful with their words. They said “association”, not “risk” ; it may just be a spurious correlation. Anyway, that Asthma UK blog I linked to above explains everything better than I can. Your friend with the asthma maybe wants to be a bit more forthright with her GP.
Oh, and Mrs R was very much vaccinated on the basis of increased risk.
Will people stop using “sufferers” Its really annoys me
Sufferer: A person who is affected by an illness or ailment. Strange thing to say from someone who is in the medical profession.