[Closed] Assisted Suicide - for or against

for.

I'd have to come down on the "For" side here, but there have to be proper safeguards in place. How those safeguards are set is a task which needs serious work.

Always been for it. It is humane to put an animal down when their life isn't worth living and it should be humane to do it to a human.

For.

For

but what about a young adult who is a jehova's witness wanting to die rather than take a life saving blood transfusion, or even a child? would you say its OK for them to die?

OK for them to die?

No. But parents maybe.

For.
But for purely selfish reasons - I mean if someone unrelated or who I don't know needs to die, it means absolutely nothing to me.

For

For.

Very very good, thought provoking peice that by Terry, and superbly read by Tony Robinson.

For. Definatly. Having seen people close to me die in hospices, we wouldnt put dogs through what we put people through.

For.

Our lives, our deaths indeed. Yes, there are issues surrounding it that have to be addressed, but there are with everything.

Me & my wife will help each other die if required
& neither of us really cares if that means we end up in prison
If it becomes necessary & were old, we'll both go together

For, no question.

for (with safeguards)

for.

I too watched the lecture.
Very well expressed.
Worth a watch again.

My father has Alzheimers

[url= http://www.justgiving.com/howmanylaps ]This is my effort to raise some £$£ for the Society.[/url]

In principle for.

for

I don't think it's that simple. Had a conversation with a family member once who said they don't want heroic efforts made to save them or prolong their life i certain circumstances, which in effect abdicates that responsibility to others to make, do I let them die, or do I let them live? it's a terrible decision to force onto others. Where does this leave the Hippocratic Oath of doctors? How do you safeguard against errors, what if you change your mind at the last minute, but can't communicate it?

Death comes to us all eventually, I'm in no hurry to hasten it's arrival for me or others.

as ever, the mash sums up my opinion beautifully:

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/opponents-of-assisted-suicide-still-convinced-it%27s-any-of-their-business-201002012428/ ]Someone you don't know with a horrible disease wants a close friend or relative to help them end their lives - what the fnck has it got to do with you?[/url]

For - with safeguards.

For.

I have seen a lot of death both in my own family and in my professional role. A decent dignified death surrounded by our loved ones is the best we can do at the end of our lives and must be the aim for us all.

My grandfather committed suicide. He had been unwell with chronic illness for some time. His wife had died previously and his life was miserable but he had no life threatening condition. One night he took an overdose of painkillers. He did not die at that time and was taken into hospital. As with all hospital admissions for overdosage he was seen by a consultant psychiatrist before discharge who sad. "he is sane and has a sane and rational desire to die" After he returned home he had his prescription for strong painkillers stopped which made him even more miserable. after 3 months the strong painkillers were restarted and he then took another overdose. He took a fortnight to die. He had bedsores and a chest infection. At one point he said to my mother " all I wanted to do was go to sleep and not wake up"

In a humane society he would have been allowed to end his life in a painfree and dignified way at a time of his choosing. Instead the trauma of his death was made worse for all concerned. Fortunately the doctors involved were humane and did not take any steps to prolong his death further.

I have seen many folk who are waiting to die in undignified circumstances. I would not wish it upon anyone. I think we all should have the right to die at a time of our choosing.

For

TJ thats a touching story and sums up why I am "for"

for

for off mrs mcgroo too.

don't know

For - with safeguards.

For ( with safeguards )

for. Great lecture by Terry/Tony.
That Daily Mash article is spot on.

for

and i think bill hicks knew how to go about it
........

For.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qmfgn ]HERE is the link to the lecture.[/url]

I watched my dad slowly die last year it took 9 hours before he finally passed. We all said you wouldn't let an animal go through what he did. I'm definitely for it.

"My own affairs are nobody else's business".

Unless the drugs had stopped working and I was in unbearable pain, I wouldn't want to be assisted.

Even if I had Alzheimer's, I still want to be able to suck every last second of life out of being alive that I could.

Rage. Rage against the dying of the light.

Very much for.

But as many have mentioned, getting the safe guards in place is the worry. Got to make things stringent enough to make sure people aren't offing relatives, but also don't want the process so drawn out that it almost defeats the point of being able to end your life when the quality of life issue has long gone.

nasher - Member

For

but what about a young adult who is a jehova's witness wanting to die rather than take a life saving blood transfusion, or even a child? would you say its OK for them to die?

If they are competent in law then clearly yes.

Mr Woppit - that is your choice and one you must be allowed to take. I would fight to allow you to have your choice in the matter no matter how much it is against my views.

I have been put in exactly that position. A man who could not express his wishes was clearly dying. His family had told me that they wanted every possible thing done for hi, Accordingly I dialled 999 and sent him to hospital. His / their choice. it would not have been my choice but [b]I must respect[/b] his and his families wishes. I would always do so.

For. Totally.

Wife & I in agreement that if either became a vegetable (sorry, PC term evades me) then we'd do the kindest thing.

I'll be raging right next to MrWoppit when the reaper comes for me.

But I sincerely agree with assisted suicide.

Had a conversation with a family member once who said they don't want heroic efforts made to save them or prolong their life

EVERYONE should have this conversation with their close family. My wife knows that as long as I have basic cognitive function I'd rather be alive, and I know she'd rather be dead.

Where does this leave the Hippocratic Oath of doctors?

Doctors at the moment are frequently left to make horrible decisions about withholding treatment, not resuscitating, or not "feeding" certain patients who wish to die. They can't currently assist them to die, but they can choose not to attempt to prevent death, if the patients wishes are clear.

Even if I had Alzheimer's, I still want to be able to suck every last second of life out of being alive that I could.

[url= http://www.alzheimers-research.org.uk/info/statistics/ ]1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.[/url]

You may well get the opportunity to test that theory. In a nursing home, waiting for the end, and you think you'll be aware of what's going on and why you're there or anything else for that matter?

Of course not!

[url= http://www.alzheimers-research.org.uk/info/statistics/ ]1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.[/url]

For

[url= http://www.alzheimers-research.org.uk/info/statistics/ ]1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.[/url]

[url= http://www.alzheimers-research.org.uk/info/statistics/ ]1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.[/url]

100% for, I should be able to determine my own destiny in the way I see fit. I don't see what it's got to do with the government. If it comes to a point where I've had enough and for whatever reason I'm incapable of sorting things out myself then this sort of facility will be invaluable.

Why on earth would anyone want to spend their remaining years being completely dependant on others/in constant pain/in a terribly humiliating position? It's beyond me. Let people have some dignity for christ's sake. We treat our pets better than we treat each other, at least they get to drift away painlessly and without compromise.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brompton_cocktail ]Bromptons cocktail for me[/url] Ever increasing doses

Samuri - other people have other views for a range of reasons. We MUST respect this

but I must respect his and his families wishes

which may not coincide...

against.

mainly because the likes of me would be doing the doing.

'the patients wishes are clear'. don't make me laugh. and what about the relatives who contest the clearness of the patient's wishes? i'd be spending half my time in court!

post shipman we already see enough people not getting pain relief because of twitchy litigious guilty feeling relatives and the effect they have on prescribers. i wouldn't touch 'assisted suicide' with a bargepole.

This used to be really hard for me.As a Christian I believe human life is sacred, however compassion for fellow human beings means I am against seeing people suffer.My Gran raised four kids before and after ww2, when life was hard, despite losing a lung to TB. Seeing her waste away in the last couple of years,slowly robbed of all her strength and freedom was awful and put me into the yes camp.But it has to be the persons choice,not next of kin.
However;
Despite any jolly quotes about friendly Victorian doctors helping you along,how long before assisted suicide becomes resource driven OR we have another Harold Shipman?

how long before assisted suicide becomes resource driven OR we have another Harold Shipman?

Ti29er - Member

Even if I had Alzheimer's, I still want to be able to suck every last second of life out of being alive that I could.

1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.

You may well get the opportunity to test that theory. In a nursing home, waiting for the end, and you think you'll be aware of what's going on and why you're there or anything else for that matter?

Of course not!

You missed the present tense in the sentence.

I am making that decision for myself pro-actively, just as Terry Pratchett is making the opposite one, pro-actively...

I am, however, in the "for" camp - if the drugs weren't working anymore and I couldn't stand the pain.

[i]Samuri - other people have other views for a range of reasons. We MUST respect this[/i]

I agree entirely. Those people can stay alive. The point is that those lucky bastards currently have the law working in their favour whereas as far as I can tell from the majority of responses so far on this thread, most of us do not.

duckman - Member

This used to be really hard for me.As a Christian I believe human life is sacred, however compassion for fellow human beings means I am against seeing people suffer.My Gran raised four kids before and after ww2, when life was hard, despite losing a lung to TB. Seeing her waste away in the last couple of years,slowly robbed of all her strength and freedom was awful and put me into the yes camp.But it has to be the persons choice,not next of kin.
However;
Despite any jolly quotes about friendly Victorian doctors helping you along,how long before assisted suicide becomes resource driven OR we have another Harold Shipman?

Don't worry - I'm sure it's all part of god's big plan. Eh?

maybe it's a test.

Sounds more like shitty bad luck to me mind.

Ti29er - Member

1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.
..
1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.
..
1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.
..

Short term memory loss is the first sign apparently 😀

Ti29er - Member

1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.
..
1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.
..
1 in 3 over 65's will die with some form of dementia. Fact.
..

Short term memory loss is the first sign apparently 😀

Go on Granny, hurry up, you've got nothing left to keep going on for anyway granny, just move on now and let the kids have their inheritance.

Pressure and a very slipperly slope.

I agree in principle to a worthwhile life and a dignified death but it's a very dangerous precedent.

Sorry about the several posts.

Anyhow, you should see how loved ones have to cope. 😥

As I said, my father has been diagnosed by the same team Terry Pratchett's under at Gt Addenbrookes.
In the first 18 months there was a mis-diagnosis, as he also developed disphasia, which masked the true nature of the illness.
There were days worth of tests, all including my mother as my father is part of a UK trial / test. They want his brain after his death.
Now my mother, also 74, has to manage my father in every way, not helped by prostate issues in the last 4 months and her breaking bones in her leg during the summer.

Getting old looks positively vile, the truth be told.

Ok - all those who want to be offed please form an orderly queue at Nurse TJs euthanasia clinic and burger bar. 🙂

Go on Granny, hurry up, you've got nothing left to keep going on for anyway granny, just move on now and let the kids have their inheritance

GrahamS deliberate double post for humour??
Duckman - do you see a lot of gods love in the slow death of a loved one wasting away before your eyes via a terminal disease? I see mainly pain and suffering and a god [if one existed]who chooses to let it happen

TJ..... I heard your cooking was bad but is it really deadly 😉

I'm for from the point of view of me getting in a state of being unable to loko after myself or having machines keeping me alive. It would be a lot harder to decide for someone else but then that also depends on the circumstances,

Scottish law ( and I believe English also now) states that when an adult is not capable of making such a decision then their known views should be taken into account.

You can also write a "living will" which has legal standing to define your wishes.

Resource driven; So people get to stay in hospital for as long as they need do they? Everybody gets the drugs they need with no such thing as a postcode lottery? Which primary care district do you stay in,must be good to have that level of treatment. By Harold Shipman, how long before consent can come from next of kin? Just say, in cases where the ill person is in a coma, the nice doctor who has known family for years convinces family member it is for the better.
Sorry for daring to disagree with the mighty intellect that is Junkyard, but your are,as frequently shown, a horses arse.I don't see any of God's love in a family member dying; what sort of a stupid question is that? And why is it relevant to this thread?...Oh wait, I see where you are going with that.

You can also write a "living will" which has legal standing to define your wishes.

Both my wife & me have living wills, clearly stating that the other has absolute authority concerning whether or not medical assistance is given
we've also written into them that the other has the right to help the other one die if required

Now, I know a lot of that is illegal etc. but at least it puts something down if the other one were to face prosecution

Uplink.
Having just been all around the houses with my own father's situation, and having employed a neighbour who is a solicitor to complete all the reams & reams of legal paperwork, having dragged my sister down from the wilds of Wales for 3 separate meetings, I am left wondering if your own paperwork is worth anything in a court of law.
Did you draft it in the presence of and have it signed by the necessary people?

.I don't see any of God's love in a family member dying

Quite. 😛

T129er. It has some legal standing, Its not definite but acts as an indication of the persons wishes so any doc would have to have a good reason to go against it and would have to be able to justify going against it.

Its much easier to do before you become ill.

[b][i]Unless the drugs had stopped working and I was in unbearable pain[/b], I wouldn't want to be assisted.[/i]

So that's "for" then?

But we do all die Mr woppit,yes? I happen to believe that is not the end.

I am left wondering if your own paperwork is worth anything in a court of law

None whatsoever I would think other than TJs thoughts on it

At the end of the day [see what I did there?] it doesn't really concern either of us to any degree what the law would make of it
As I said earlier, it may well end up that both of us go at the same time, we've been together 32 years now, I couldn't face being a lonely old man 🙂
If I were to be prosecuted & imprisoned, so what? - I don't really care, I'm sure there's worse places to live out your days.

duckman - Member

But we do all die Mr woppit,yes? I happen to believe that is not the end.

That's your problem, but let's not start it all up again, it was done to death (oops) last time...

"I am not afraid of death. I was dead for billions of years before I was alive and it inconvenienced me not in the slightest" - Mark Twain.

Duckman - you wont help your case by throwing insults in my general direction. Can you not forgive those who trespass against you?
OT I find it difficult to believe that the postcode lottery will extend to assisted suicide and I find the slippery slope argument a little weak. The suggestion that a doctor will persuade the loved ones to kill the person is somewhat far fetched IMHO. I suspect appropriate legislation and independence could prevent any of this occuring without too much difficulty. I suspect most people agree there should be some legal /appropriate checks to any decision.

DezB - Member

Unless the drugs had stopped working and I was in unbearable pain, I wouldn't want to be assisted.

So that's "for" then?

I refer the honourable member to the reply that I gave earlier...

[i]I don't really care, I'm sure there's worse places to live out your days. [/i]

Hull?

Exactly 😀

For. But only for people incapable of committing suicide themselves.

Your tale is bizarre TJ. Why didn't you give your grandfather some advice on how to do it properly after his first failure?

I was rather hoping Uplink might shed some light on it himself.

For example, he has stated he doesn't care is his wife ends up in prison if she helps him die, "Me & my wife will help each other die if required & neither of us really cares if that means we end up in prison" & that he seems to be making changes to the legal statute book (?) "we've also written into them that the other has the right to help the other one die if required", so I'm keen to know who helped them draw up these documents & how they might be worded.

As stated, we employed a solicitor to ensure it's as water tight especially with regard to power of attorney and transferring financial assets and the like, so as you'll appreciate, I interested to learn more. I still got a bill for £180 per hour.

For example, he has stated he doesn't care is his wife ends up in prison if she helps him die

no I didn't - I said I don't really care if [b]I[/b] ended up up prison for helping my wife out of pain
She says the same

I'm not trying to change any legal statutes - just trying to put in writing how we feel

EDIT - We wrote them, without help

You seem to think legal considerations outweigh the love I feel for my wife, it doesn't
& - I'll say it again - If I were to be imprisoned for helping her to die with dignity rather than in prolonged pain, so what? - I truly don't care
My wife, I know, feels the same