I never got the impression that Swann was a quitter, so I get the feeling there is a hell of a lot more to this story than Swanny just feeling he can no longer contribute. I wouldn't be surprised if there had been some sort of incident and it was a case of the management giving him the choice of retiring and it kept quiet or sent home from tour in disgrace.
Either way it's a pretty disastrous tour, 3 down in the series and 2 of our best performers look set never to play for the team again. Only another 2 tests to go.
Welcome to the 90s - I don't think I'm the first to suggest that all we're waiting for is Pieterson (former captain, frustrating in the way he gives away his wicket needlessly) to buzz a match in a biplane.
In fairly sure murali's action was investigated and verified as being proper. The umpire who kept on about it no longer stands.
I think you might mean the ICC cacked its pants, 'checked' his action, changed the rules retrospectively and then said there wasn't a problem. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Which umpire by the way? Darryl Hair (who had a problem with Asian players in general and so was rightly edged out) or Ross Emerson, the umpire who called Murali for chucking because that's what he thought from square leg? Leading to Arjuna Ranatunga holding a gun to the head of the ICC by threatening to take his bat and ball and go home. Which then led to Emerson being hounded out of the higher echelons of umpiring for exposing the 'holy cow'. Very much in the way David Constant was with the ****stan team from 92.
This is an area where the ICC have let the promise of a 'crowd spectacle' override the basic laws of the game. Dishonourable mentions also to:
Harbhajan
Saqlain
Ajmal
Johan Botha
James Kirtley
Shabbir Ahmed
Shoiab Akhtar
Jermaine Lawson
Unfortunately the culture of turning a blind eye to dodgy actions is endemic now. In my playing days we played a team who had three out of five bowlers who were blatant chuckers. When I asked the umpire (amicably) whether he agreed he said "yes, of course, it's bloody obvious, but if I call him for chucking it gets referred up the line and will ultimately end up with a letter from Lords. It's just not worth it".
If it was 2-1 to either side of course swann would have stayed, as in all likelihood it would mean he was bowling well. However, if the man himself says he was increasingly struggling post op to do anything with the ball relatively when your time is up your time is up.
Yes, it was Hair the racist that I was referring to.
But it's not turning a blind eye to poor actions. You are correct in stating that the guidelines were changed, and that was because when forensically investigated, most bowlers' actions exceeded five degrees of flexation.
I can't find any info on Swann's action in particular to verify whether or not he too was technically a 'chucker' under the old rules.
Turning a blind eye to poor actions has been commonplace for a long time. Sonny Ramadin is one example of a bowler who is lionised, but was actually extremely suspect. Tony Lock also went a long time before being called. Whisper it quietly, but have a look at Ray Lindwall in slow motion as well.
None of this makes it alright, though!
There are telltale signs usually, though. A distinct 'jerk' of the arm is one (a jerk that is out of kilter with shoulder rotation). Invariably bowling with rolled down sleeves is another.
An umpire should be able to trust his eye without fear of being hounded into retirement, or getting a reprimand from higher authority if he sees an infringement.
Invariably bowling with rolled down sleeves is another.
So... Swanny, then?
Ha, yes - I did think that as I was typing it!
So, calypso collapso, or KP and Root to trot on?
CHANNEL 9 GET THAT ****ING PRICK PIERS ****ING MORGAN OFF MY TV NOW!!!!!!
Glad I'm not watching....
Bell gone. Here we go again...
New ball, Johnson, 90+mph, two overs, two wickets... There's the main difference between the teams right there. He's too good and too fast (at the moment) for our middle order and tail - actually make that the whole bloody line up!
He's too good and too fast (at the moment) for our middle order and tail - actually make that the whole bloody line up!
No he isn't - that much was demonstrated in Perth. He's not too good for them when they play well. Any bowler appears too good for them when they play as they have done for most of the day. Pity, Cook and Carberry were running along quite nicely, then, as usual, it all went tits up.
Bloody selfish of Pietersen.
Only interested in himself, grinding out 67no when all those team players fell cheaply... 🙄
Sorry mate the wickets speak for themselves. I didn't say he's brilliant just too good for us, both Stokes and Bresnan where done by pure pace, a great line and a little late movement - if that's not 'too good' then I don't know what is. I don't rate him as a world class bowler, he's just in a purple patch and will be undone by better batsman in tests to come but right now he's one big difference between the two teams. 25 wickets in four 3.1 tests! don't be so argumentative FFS.
Great quote from David Gower;
"That last spell from Johnson might have just tipped the day Australia's way"
Really DG? If England pass 275 tomorrow I'll be surprised. Then Australia on a good wicket with our bowling... Same story different venue unless someone steps up and does something special.
Sorry mate the wickets speak for themselves.
They do. They are mostly the result of batsmen throwing their wickets away, with a few jaffers (Cook's and Broad's spring to mind) thrown in. No Australian bowler has won this series for the Aussies, the abject performance of the English batsmen has done that for them. I think Steve Smith would get a Michelle against our lot the way they're currently playing.
Yes, MJ's quick, but not unplayable. Harris is by far the better bowler. The difference has been the English cacking themselves and doing stupid things.
If England can reach 300 then I reckon they have a good chance. Unless it rains this isn't going to be a draw.
Aussies batting last might show some nerves if they need 300ish to win?
Yes, MJ's quick, but not unplayable. Harris is by far the better bowler.
Yep, with you there completely and I also agree that a lot of this is down to England's mental attitude but Johnson is much to blame for this, he has them rattled. Gower is a client of mine and I had a chat with him a few years ago about facing the West Indies attack (back then) - his comment was that when the ball hits 90+ make yourself a very thin target 😯
It appears England have got it into their head that it's about surviving and this is very bad for a batsman, only KP is showing much (mental) resilience but we know how he likes to toss things up every now and then. I do hope he goes on tomorrow, for all his faults he's a joy to watch and a good score here will silence his naysayers.
and a good score here will silence his naysayers.
He could score 1000 runs in both innings and I still very much doubt he'd achieve that. H8rz gonna h8, etc.
So Swann has denied that it's anyone in the current England dressing room that his 'up their own arse' comment was directed at (and has specifically made his peace with kp who was most folk's favourite suspect).
But it's a current player, so rules out the ex captains in the commentary boxes.
And it's insinuated that it's one of the aussies, although can't find that a reference to that at all.
So - who's your money on? Mitchell Johnson I can't see, 'cos he's been down to the bottom and could well go there again. Warner seems too obvious. Watson? Or one of the new boys, Smith or Bailey? Hmmm.....
So - who's your money on? Mitchell Johnson I can't see, 'cos he's been down to the bottom and could well go there again. Warner seems too obvious. Watson? Or one of the new boys, Smith or Bailey? Hmmm.....
Doubt it's MJ or Watson: both are paranoid of their own frailties. My money's on Clarke, who most of the Aussies I speak to seem to agree that he's more than a bit of an arse.
I reckon Swann is not being honest.
Seems like 275 was being far too hopeful 🙁
Phew that was quick. Can get to bed early now.
Shambolic 🙁
What a cheat - Bailey knocking the cover off it and not walking 😆
Well, it's from these positions that we've let Australia off the hook in two of the last three tests. Let's see if we can do it properly this time...
Haddin still in. That's another of the big differences this time, he's been a real pest at 7 allowing the tail to score runs without being under real pressure. Prior has scratched around.....
Dammit dammit dammit!
Yeeha!
Interesting game this, good to finally see some belated fight from the Poms... Plenty of life left in this one I suspect, though Engerland in front of course at this stage
This is why tests are the only form of cricket worth watching. When two teams who are relatively evenly matched play, the result can be anybody's guess for a very long time.
Now then, wtf didn't we play like this a month ago???
Looks like my wee bet at 4-1 on England will pay out this time!
Even a poor batting day tomorrow will leave the Aussies with over 300 on a tough pitch. A decent batting day will test Cook on his declaration skills. How many v how much time needed?
I'm probably a bit off the pace - but I have to take issue with all the unconditional praise for KP's knock.
He did come within a yard of holing out to long leg again, when in single figures (did he not?) The end does not necessaraily justify the means. A yard or two less, and we would have been talking about another massively irresponsible dismissal for virtually no runs. Now for the flipside..............
After that, however, he did knuckle down appropriately and make the top score of the innings - so well done Kevin, at least it seems you can realise when you've had a lucky escape and you can then make the most of it.
I still don't think he's worth the candle.................
I'm probably a bit off the pace - but I have to take issue with all the unconditional praise for KP's knock.
Now there's a surprise 😆
I still don't think he's worth the candle.................
H8rz gonna h8 😉
Oh come on zokesy, I did give him some praise for the way he knuckled down after nearly giving it away (again). I wasn't being fatuous either, he genuinely did play well after that. But you can't score runs in the hutch, and that's nearly what happened this time as well.
You need to be able to rely on your best batsmen to make the most of their talents. It reminds me a bit of the early 80s Hampshire side that had Barry Richards and Gordon Greenidge opening for them. Absolutely brilliant to watch, obviously, but not that good from the team point of view if your less experienced number three and four have to accept that on any day, in any conditions, against any attack, you might be going in at 200 for two or 10 for two. Solely depending on what mood the 'gun' batsmen are in. Or whether they'd had a night on the piss beforehand. Another example might be IVA Richards and IT Botham at Somerset, although lower down the order.
The team must come first.
Pietersen's knock of 70 odd in the first innings means jack shit.
The ashes are lost, Pietersen clearly and obviously plays for himself which is fine when he's scoring heavily. He isn't scoring heavily these days in test cricket. A tainted luxury we can no longer afford. Should have been cut loose after the texting thing. Will be cut loose after this series I'm very hopeful.
Just this once it was brilliant watching an English batsman get worked over by an Aussie fast bowler.
What you've accurately described there is the problem facing our batters at three (Root) and four (KP), but with a lot less of the 200-2 of late. Cook and/or Carberry are pretty much guaranteed to both be out before the team reached 100 at the moment, so what sort of pressure is that placing on numbers 3, 4, 5? Too much is the answer.
I really don't understand how you can single KP out when there hasn't been a single batter in the team who you've been able to know you can rely on. Bell's got the same level of experience KP at this level (they both played in the 2005 series against a much better Australian team), Cook's played as-near-as-dammit as many tests, Carberry's an old hand and has made good starts before getting out. They are all culpable.
You are wrong to single KP out.
Pietersen's knock of 70 odd in the first innings means jack shit.
Apart from being the probable difference between the two teams in this game so far. I trust you'll show similar disdain for anyone else (Stokes excepted) who has the temerity to make a big score in our last two tests? Ditto the bowlers - trying hard now it doesn't matter, eh? 🙄
Apart from being the probable difference between the two teams in this game so far. I trust you'll show similar disdain for anyone else (Stokes excepted) who has the temerity to make a big score in our last two tests? Ditto the bowlers - trying hard now it doesn't matter, eh?
The probable difference between the two sides??? Are you on crack? 🙂 the Aussies are 3-0 up and coasting. Half our side are either rocking backward and forward in a darkened room or wanting to retire mid tour and you have somehow decided that a flawed innings of 70ish in a game that's not even at the half way point is the 'difference'. You live in Oz don't you? Are you wearing a hat when you go out?
And actually no, trying hard now is a bit ****ting late. It annoys me more than anything else because it shows clearly the mentality of the senior players before they went 3 down, Pietersen included.
I don't think anyone is pointing the finger just at Pietersen. Cook's hugely cautious tactics need to be revised or more likely he needs to step aside. Carberry is a tidy county player but no more than that. Trott is highly unlikely to play any major role for England again. There's a reason that Bell bats down the order, it's not because he's brilliant or consistent that's for sure. Root will be good in a decade, Prior has totally lost it. Stokes is ginger but talented, Broad at least has tried, Swann can't be arsed, Anderson looks fairly average with the Aussie ball, Tremlett should be back in the uk for the panto season and Monty's a piss head. Don't get me started on Bresnan.
I'm not hopeful to be honest. 🙂
Are you on crack?
No, but you appear to be having trouble to read the rest of the sentence:
Apart from being the probable difference between the two teams [b]in this game so far[/b]
Perhaps you are?
I don't think anyone is pointing the finger just at Pietersen.
Your post seemed to be, seeing as the vitriol it contained seemed to be thrown only in KP's direction, and dannyh certainly is.
Chill out zokes, you do take things very seriously don't you?
Chill out zokes, you do take things very seriously don't you?
Not really. I'll happily point out when you're wrong though, which on this occasion was about three posts up.
KP is what's he is. The fools are the ones who think he can be changed. In certain circumstances he may be valuable for a team in others he is not. It's up to the selectors and the captain to make that call as they see fit.
Having said that, the All Blacks wouldn't have a prize one ¥¥¥¥ in their team however good he was. May be that's the lesson to be learned here. Too corrosive for me, I wouldn't pick him for that reason alone.
(Yossarian three posts up +1 - good shout!!!!)
Not really. I'll happily point out when you're wrong though, which on this occasion was about three posts up.
Good for you. I think you've gone native old boy.
