as humans why are we told we are insignificant compared to the universe we are always being told this only this morning on Radio 4 yet again we were told this.
1. Maybe the universe is insignificant without us...
2. to my family (children/wife/parent/brothers&sisters) I am their universe and vice versa.
3.I'm not getting religious...
Thoughts ?
Well, in size obviously we are insignificant. In the span of history, we are insignificant. Even to this planet we're insignificant - noting we've done will matter in 10 million years, which is nothing to the planet.
On the other hand, the most complex thing in the universe, by several orders of magnitude, is the human brain.
If Brian May was right on Stargazing and we are the only life in the universe that may change their perspective a little.
[img] 
[/img]
To quote Douglas Adams:
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space.
But I agree with you. Insignificant to whom/what? God? Well that's probably a contradiction.
Well, for a start, I think you misundertood the R4 piece (thought for the day?)
[i]On the other hand, the most complex thing in the universe, by several orders of magnitude, is the human brain. [/i]
That's a pretty bold statement.
Okay, that we know of.
Depends what you define as significant. In an infinite universe what significance would you expect to have....In an infinite universe nothing is the only significance.... 🙂
If you were significant, you'd probably know why.
you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store
I take it that's from an American translation? I'm sure I don't remember something as jarring as "drug store" in the original. *shudders*
And on the OP - significance is subjective, but you'd have to be a fairly rampant egoist* to argue that you are more important than the billions and billions of other wonders on this planet, let alone the universe.
*Lance Armstrong, for example
If we were to cause a big kick ass..full blown Nuclear war...blew up the moon and perhaps caused a change in the gravitational pull of the planets...
I think we would have made our mark! 😉
But I think it's safe to say things would carry on their way (probably better) without the Human bods about...we are part of the system, but the system is much too big to be bothered by us.
2. to my family (children/wife/parent/brothers&sisters) I am their universe and vice versa.
Then your "family (children/wife/parent/brothers&sisters)" lack imagination.
Of course you are insignificant.
Just work out how old you are and compare.
How big you are and compare.
How much change you can cause and compare.
Anything you can do / will do will have no impact whatsoever compared to what happens over the timescales and size of the universe.
Remember the Dinosaurs lived far far longer than we have, the universe has forgotton them.
All we have left are a few footprints on the moon. We have ruined our own planet and in a short while we will be gone.
Get some perspective !
that may effect our solar system...If we were to cause a big kick ass..full blown Nuclear war...blew up the moon and perhaps caused a change in the gravitational pull of the planets...
Turn it round, though, and the universe as a whole is pretty insignificant to me, too. I mean, I like looking at the stars, and reading about the Big Bang etc., but on a day-to-day basis my kids, wife, job, bikes, and so on are infinitely more important.
Have a play with this then come back feeling insignificant:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347
On the stargazing prog last night they were talking about a galaxy where light takes several billions of years to reach Earth.
That's a looooong way away 🙂
That made the human race seem pretty insignificant in the whole scheme of things.
Caring about your significance as relates to the universe utterly pointless. Why bother, it's your significance to those you care about that matters.
Turn it round, though, and the universe as a whole is pretty insignificant to me, too
The universe would still be pretty much the same without us.
However, we would not exist without it.
Ignoring the universe doesn't make it insignificant.
Individual people are pretty insignificant just on our planet - there are over 7 billion of us, what significance does any one of us really have? (other than to our family/friends?)
thats what philosophers call a personal truth....but its not significant to others.but on a day-to-day basis my kids, wife, job, bikes, and so on are infinitely more important.
You need to get out on your bike. Feeling bad about your lack of significance in the Universe will do your head in.
Beyond questions of scale, there is of course the question of what we mean by signification. Do we adopt a deontological system where certain norms are fixed so for us to be able to benchmark significance, or do we prefer a pragmatic approach where value shifts in reference to social arrangements/knowledge norms prevalent at any one time? Regardless, given that we are the only creatures known to us to ask questions about significance, I'd say that makes us pretty significant.
You were listening to "thought for the day"?
Pfft.
Regardless, given that we are the only creatures known to us to ask questions about significance, I'd say that makes us pretty significant.
Are you saying a fly doesn't ponder his own place in the universe whilst buzzing around eating shit?
I think it's a religious thing, how better to convince someoen there's an afterlife and that your life does have a meaning, than to get science to tell everyone that they're insignificant.
On the other hand, the most complex thing in the universe, by several orders of magnitude, is the human brain.
Three things:
1) Bold assumption there's not a more inteligent lifeform in the universe.
2) Just because we (as STW, I'm sure a brain surgeon knows it better) don't understand it, doesnt make it complicated.
3) Get parraliticaly drunk and you don't feel slow headed, how do we know the random jumble of nerve cells that makes up our brains is anywhere near working the way it should/could? For all we know when we do find other life we might come accross as the slack jawed yokles.
Alternatively, we may represent the initial seed that is destined to populate the universe. A singular beacon of complexity in an otherwise barren universe that will spread out and propagate exponentially, eventually finding the means to reach out into alternative dimensions before the inevitable heat death of the universe in this dimension.
Bridging time and space, the very last humans, 423 trillion years from now, unrecognisable to our current form, watch on with sadness as the multiuniverse ends, only moments before triggering the birth of a new chain reaction to start the whole process over.
That's whats going to happen, I've decided. I'll start working on it after lunch.
Demodex Folliculorum - a tiny parasitic mite that lives on your eyelash.
[img] 
[/img]
How significant is a mite on your eyelash to the weather in Hong Kong?
Do you reckon you are more or less important than that in the scale of the universe?
Torminalis, I like it!
I've often thought we've got the potential to populate this galaxy. Fire of bacteria onto other planets the evolves enough to build machines to fire off other bacteria. We're barking up the wrong tree trying to colonise other planets as humans.
1 . Brian May is wrong (and a dull presenter too he's no Patrick Moore)
2. Why the human brain, whats to say a whales or a dogs brain is more complex , you are showing bias there
3.the sun and stars do not revolve around the earth infact we are just a tiny transient speck amongst the rest of the universe, infact the stuff of us may be a cosmic. abberation compared to dark matter and energy
4. the question is why does it bother you ? its not like people are saying kill yourself now because you are so pointless and obviously its all relative your 80 years may be nothing to the last 20 000 000 000 000 or so of the universe's but to you they are everything
5.my copy of hitch hikers is boxed up while I build some shelves but I'm sure it doesn't say drug store !
Are you saying a fly doesn't ponder his own place in the universe whilst buzzing around eating shit?
Ponder - doubtful, but it is continually trying to orient itself by means of what is significant for it.
Here at the [i]Restaurant At The End Of The Universe[/i], it's great to see so many of you go back to your own times to struggle and fight long and bloody wars for what you know to be right. It gives one such hope for the future of life-kind, except that...
[i]we[/i] know...
It hasn't got one.
I like that.....Alternatively, we may represent the initial seed that is destined to populate the universe. A singular beacon of complexity in an otherwise barren universe that will spread out and propagate exponentially, eventually finding the means to reach out into alternative dimensions before the inevitable heat death of the universe in this dimension.
Torminalis - MemberAlternatively, we may represent the initial seed that is destined to populate the universe. A singular beacon of complexity in an otherwise barren universe that will spread out and propagate exponentially, eventually finding the means to reach out into alternative dimensions before the inevitable heat death of the universe in this dimension.
Bridging time and space, the very last humans, 423 trillion years from now, unrecognisable to our current form, watch on with sadness as the multiuniverse ends, only moments before triggering the birth of a new chain reaction to start the whole process over.
That's whats going to happen, I've decided. I'll start working on it after lunch
but time is purely conceputal idea so surely you could finish this off earlier than lunch - if you really tried. But then again why bother go enjoy a Meatball Maranara Sub with cheese instead, I find it solves most problems.
What's George got to say?
One definition of significance is that it indicates meaning. The universe knows no such thing as meaning. There is however meaning to be found in our own minds as a result of stimulus from the universe.
Another definition is that something that is significant is worthy of note. Worthy of note to whom? The universe cannot note anything. Only we 'note' things.
As such, significance is an entirely human creation & condition. Without us, there is no such thing as significance, and nothing to experience it. Surely that's significant?
It's beautiful because we are a part of the universe. The universe and us are one and the same - there is no us without it, there is no it without us, because we are a product of the same interactions that created [i]everything[/i].
The universe and us are one and the same - there is no us without it, there is no it without us
I'm pretty sure the universe would still exist without us. Plenty of other 'species' have become extinct and the universe didn't end.
Most of what we do damages the place anyway in some way or another.
Perhaps it's better off without us.
😀
GrahamS - [quoteHow significant is a mite on your eyelash to the weather in Hong Kong?
Now I am aware of the mite, I am now concerned about both!
Most of what we do damages the place anyway in some way or another.
Same could be said of the sun, I mean just think of how much hydrogen has been gobbled up by our sun in the last few billion years. Seriously destructive things, stars...
As such, significance is an entirely human creation & condition. Without us, there is no such thing as significance, and nothing to experience it. Surely that's significant?
Bit of a human-centric egoist position that.
Would other life on this planet not "experience" it if we were not here?
And what about the life on other planets?
Re. human brain - yes there may well be more intelligent life elsewhere, that's why I appended "that we know of". Why is a human brain more complex than a dog or a whale? Well, for a start, we're the only ones who do thinks like investigate the universe.
It's not a homocentric viewpoint, I'm not making value judgements about the "worth" of a human versus a whale, it's a simple fact about the processing power of the human brain.
Would other life on this planet not "experience" it if we were not here?
It wouldn't experience being hunted, shot, battery-farmed, run over, hooked in the face and thrown back, swatted, stamped on, burned with a magnifying glass, made extinct ... lots of lovely enjoyable experiences
joao3v16 - MemberThe universe and us are one and the same - there is no us without it, there is no it without us
I'm pretty sure the universe would still exist without us. Plenty of other 'species' have become extinct and the universe didn't end.
Most of what we do damages the place anyway in some way or another.
Perhaps it's better off without us.
So let's see what George says about it, shall we?
Torminalis - MemberAlternatively, we may represent the initial seed that is destined to populate the universe. A singular beacon of complexity in an otherwise barren universe that will spread out and propagate exponentially, eventually finding the means to reach out into alternative dimensions before the inevitable heat death of the universe in this dimension.
Bridging time and space, the very last humans, 423 trillion years from now, unrecognisable to our current form, watch on with sadness as the multiuniverse ends, only moments before triggering the birth of a new chain reaction to start the whole process over.
That's whats going to happen, I've decided. I'll start working on it after lunch
I'm pretty sure that's the end of the last book in James Blish's 'Cities In Flight' series
What's the American translation of 'freddled gruntbuggly'?
It wouldn't experience being hunted, shot, battery-farmed, run over, hooked in the face and thrown back, swatted, stamped on, burned with a magnifying glass, made extinct ... lots of lovely enjoyable experiences
Hunted? I'm pretty sure animals hunt other animals. And swat them, stamp on them, and make them extinct.
Humans do some pretty awful things, but don't pretend that nature would be lovely and fluffy if it wasn't for us.
