I've also been to Finland but am now asking myself...how do I know it was Finland.
Makes you wonder...
They all spoke Finnish 😉
I used to live with a Finnish guy but I guess he was really from Estonia and just didn't know. Though from my interactions with Finns including him Finnish people are all kinds of weird - no other nation has managed that level IME.
deserve no sympathy if and when they end up ill
But…They still deserve treatment.
Treatment? Yes but not given priority over other potentially life threatening conditions. Anyone who has refused a vaccine for non medical reasons and ends up ill after the last 18 months makes me think of a cancer patient who refuses to give up smoking, then still expects to be at the front of the queue for treatment
i’ve been to Finland.
I don’t believe you.
As for it being developed fast, erm, there was huge amounts of money thrown at it, unlimited budgets. It still took a year. Vaccine development is incredible.
And coronaviruses are already known and understood, and lots of vaccine tech already exists. And when was the last time you checked how long other emergency vaccines were developed by all the world's experts in the face of a global pandemic? Maybe it always takes this long when everyone is working on it?
Regarding that conspiracy chart: I'm fine with everything on it except for one thing - the 'Covid Made in the Lab' thing should be down the triangle towards speculation. Admittedly its a Trumpism which should automatically enter it towards the top, but at the moment there's compelling legitimate scientific reasoning either way, possibly more stacked on the 'gain-of-function' research linked side...so at the moment it's only fair to say we don't know. One day when this is all long past, we might find out.
In the meantime just get the flippin Vaccine.
Though from my interactions with Finns including him Finnish people are all kinds of weird – no other nation has managed that level IME.
you would be too if your country didn’t exist.
What is up with Wayfair? (top right of the conspiracy Pyramid of Certain Doom) - is it the toilet seat covers? I dare not google...
It’s fast become one of my all time favourite conspiracy theories
That the airport staff gave up on denying it and decided to go along with it is a bonus. A while back they were carrying out building works and stuck up a bunch of hoardings with stuff like "remodelling the lizard peoples lair" and "construction or cover up?"
The murals are rather on the freaky side though. Whoever signed them off must have been drunk.
It's the fact that the locals call the (admittedly more than a little demonic looking) horse sculpture; Blucifer that makes me smile..It's very, errr. detailed...
[voiceover man] Kneel before it's demonic arse....[/voiceover man]
I followed a BMW earlier that had a 'Qanon Aware' sticker in the window that reminded me of this thread. Last few pages have reminded me of why I've unfollowed/friended afew on Faceache!
BBC News - I Am Legend screenwriter dismisses anti-vax claims based on film's plot
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58164833
Well the fiction section of blockbuster makes a change from YouTube research
I’ve unfollowed/friended afew on Faceache!
I've unfollowed/unfriended a few IRL (although tbf that started about 5 years ago)
Do realise that is it PROVEN that lots of people die from getting COVID?
Do you realise that there is NO PROOF that people die form COVID vaccines?
Your second statement is completely untrue. All vaccines carry a risk, mainly because most are made using a de-natured form of the virus or bacteria that causes the disease.
mRNA vaccines, however, are synthetic, built by using a computer-designed protein based on the genotype of the virus in question, which essentially teaches the body’s defence system what to look for and how to react to protect against it.
And as for your second statement, as many on here are aware, my partner Jo died from a cerebral veinous thrombosis roughly a week after having the AZ vaccination, a significant symptom was that her blood platelet count was very low, something the consultant at Bristol Southmead hospital couldn’t understand or explain.
About a month later that was being described as a symptom, but it could be easily treated by a readily available drug. Sadly, the various other signs, like headaches, migraines and seizures were all things Joey regularly suffered from, as a result of a brain haemorrhage thirteen years ago.
It’s a very rare occurrence, more often occurring during pregnancy or while taking the birth control pill.
She was just very unlucky, those affected are mostly women between 55-60, Jo was 55.
I’m not certain what the percentage of those affected is out of the vaccinated age group, but I believe it’s a lot lower that within the general population.
@bliss - please, stop paying attention to ignorant, stupid fools spreading lies on social media, and use the Internet to check out all the genuine scientific information that is available in reliable online sources. I’ve read a great many, via Flipboard, my favourite news aggregator, in particular about the mRNA vaccines, which have been in development since the mid-1970’s, and have been used very successfully against outbreaks of Ebola, MERS, (Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome), SARS, (South-Asia Respiratory Syndrome), and now SARS Cov-2.
It’s being investigated as an effective vaccine against HIV, Influenza, (the general vaccines used are barely 50% effective, due to the way flu mutates, but slower than Cov-2 does), and other viruses, because once the genome of the virus has been decoded, an mRNA vaccine can be (relatively) quickly created to deal with it.
I really, really wish the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine had been available where I live, rather than the AZ one, which I’ve had, btw, and displayed absolutely no reaction to at all.
Count, thanks for corrrcting me and I hope that my rash statement didn't cause any further upset.
I am very sorry for your loss.
Oh gosh. Count, I'm so sorry.
I am an anti-vaxxer and I believe everybody should be entitled to their opinion, especially on a forum. I don’t agree with the poster who said anti-vaxxers should keep their opinions to themselves, that’s a communist stance along with the view that government should push everybody to have the vaccines.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, when it's an actively dangerous opinion that could actually kill people, then we have a problem. There are laws against hate speech.
I refuse to follow guidance and disagree with hate speech laws.
Ah.
just like it’s other people’s choices to get the vaccine.
It is. Isn't democracy brilliant?
I will absolutely not comply with any advice a tyranny government gives me.
What would you do if they told you not to have it?
Do you wear a seatbelt when driving?
Let’s even have an anti vaccined hospitals. Would you agree with this?
I doubt any medical practitioner on the planet would. You might get a few homeopaths and aromatherapists on board.
The fact that it just isn’t natural concerns me.
So you're against medicine in general? Paracetemol, chemotherapy...?
Do you know the chemical make up of the covid vaccines?
Yes. It's well documented.
And also the flu vaccines?
Yes. It's well documented. And irrelevant to this discussion.
Just because you don't know something doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Your entire argument here is literally "I'm against vaccines because I'm ignorant."
If the vaccines work, and do its job then why would anybody who has had the vaccine be worried about any person who hasn’t been vaccinated?
Because they're not self-centred assholes?
In being vaccinated you're not just protecting yourself, you're protecting society. You're protecting the people who cannot be immunised and who are, ironically, the ones most likely to die from an infection.
I would like to know what the chemical make up is, with proof.
Is Google down? It's literally the first hit.
What "proof" would you accept, do you think EVERY SCIENTIST ON THE GODDAMN PLANET is lying to you and no-one noticed?
I don’t want to take it because I believe it’s a death sentence
Even if that were true (spoiler, it's not, this is 200-year old technology, if it were a death sentence we'd already all be dead), do you think it's more or less of a 'death sentence' than contracting Covid?
I don’t believe this in the slightest.
Then you're a fool and we're playing chess with a pigeon. How many polio cases did you read about this month?
I do believe they have been created harmful by design.
OK. This is good.
Why?
What possible reason would, and I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, THE ENTIRE PLANET have to want to wipe out the population?
You need to stop typing and do some reading. This is all basic stuff.
You're remarkably vocal and contentious for someone who joined a week ago. What was your previous account name?
It’s a little unfair to class everyone in this position as “stupid”. People have been misled or have been swamped with information good and bad and been unduly influenced by the bad.
Everyone on the planet has literally had their entire bloody life to work it out. This isn't new.
Real simple soloution to the anti vax folks...
Offer 2 options...
1. Get a vaccine jab. Made by Pharmaceutical companies.
2. Get a Covid jab. Made by a Bat, Chicken, Chinese Government, Bill Gates (select one you suspect)
Both will produce anti bodies and this approach will provide solid statistics on the chance of death in respect to both approaches. After all just a cold init..
However i doubt that the anti vaxxers will be joining queue 2.
Everyone on the planet has literally had their entire bloody life to work it out. This isn’t new.
So this world is divided into people who share your views and stupid people? Nice.
Full on anti vaxxers are probably a lost cause. There are plenty of others who have fallen prey to misinformation who can possibly be nudged back into reality by discussion, facts and a little bit of empathy. Or just writing them all off as stupid?
Full on anti vaxxers are probably a lost cause.
Yep, for a really scary look into this world take a look at The Anti-Vax Conspiracy on Channel 4.
Andrew Wakefield, remember him from the MMR vaccine controversy? Well, all his Christmases have come at once with Covid and he's busy making a fortune in the US (where else) on the back of this. And the other Christmas present he gets is to shack up with Elle McPherson.
And the other Christmas present he gets is to shack up with Elle McPherson.
Of all the dreams and hopes that Covid has ruined for me, that one hurts the most....
Got to say, Denver Airport was funnier
I've always wanted to ask an anti vaxxer what their take on the magical decline of things like Measles, Polio, Meningitis is?
I get people's concern about something new, but some of the stuff you read is that of paranoid fantasy in my opinion! I could be wrong....but probably not....
@nickc is Denver airport the place that has a secret alien base beneath it? 🙂
Got to say, Denver Airport was funnier
can you get a flight from Denver Intl to Finland?
You have people like the troll who purport to believe all this nonsense (or pretend to - the result is the same) and then this actual, qualified nurse in Germany.
Just different ends of the same ****-shaped wedge, with differing levels of harm.
Trying to catch up on this one…but failing. What are the Finland and Denver Airport references? 🙂
Err...do your own research?
Oh, ok...
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/finland/articles/does-finland-exist-many-dont-think-so/
Apparently they are well known conspiracy theories, but hey, do your own research...🤣
What do the overlords gain from killing off the likes of me/not killing off the likes of you?
They prefer those that are easily influenced ?,and believe all manners of claptrap, preferring to leave logic out of their thinking, going so far as to refute all and any evidence in favour of what they're told.
I always find it funny when the anti vaxx brigade refer to everyone else as 'sheeple'.
And the other Christmas present he gets is to shack up with Elle McPherson.
Says more about Elle McPherson than Andrew Wakefield 😕
Too slow....
Hang on though, back in 2008 we did a day trip to "Lapland" in northern "Finland" to see "Santa".
They told us it was midday when we landed at this remote frozen airport, but the daylight was already going? Drove us through woods to a remote village and distracted us with sleigh rides, dog sleds and shit food, before taking us and the kids to meet a guy I'm pretty sure was pretending to be a mythical person.
Now it kind of makes sense.....🤔
I’ve always wanted to ask an anti vaxxer what their take on the magical decline of things like Measles, Polio, Meningitis is?
According to some it's because germs aren't real and you can't catch viruses.
I have just been sent this article that tries to explain why people still get infected after vaccination:
It seemed relatively sensible to me, but I'd like someone with more coffee in their veins (and more experience in stats) to assess it as well. @TiRed?
Take the flu jab ?
Never bothered myself as getting it was a rare occurrence. Bring on Autumn 2019. Started feeling very rough doing 'The Beast' at Coed Y Brenin and had to cut the loop slightly short. Roll on next day, full blown flu and off work for a good week, off bike for at least two weeks. This was late October.
Move to December and I was ill again with 'something' which really affected my breathing and was off work a good week, cancelled all Xmas doo's and off bike a month.
Now I come into contact with 'students' so that was my decision to get the jab for Autumn 2020, wasn't going through that again, lost too much time on the bike. Of course it all changed, but I still got my flu jab.
Better look into the next jab soon before I'm back 'at work'. I really don't get the anti vaxxers. For me getting ill twice was enough to get a jab
Just registered with Lloyds for my free jab - beat the queue if you register online. Free for us over 50's.
I have just been sent this article that tries to explain why people still get infected after vaccination:
Because the vaccine wasn't intended to stop you getting infected, is the answer as I understand it.
I like the Finland theory, sounds like it was invented by bored parents to bam up their kid. Not that I've ever done that...
It seemed relatively sensible to me
Me too. Then I realised I’d only had decaf this morning. This is a revelation (not that vaccinated admissions are getting higher than unvaccinated because of breakthrough infections, but that I possible process things more readily without caffeine)
Great link thnks. Good animation also. Sadly it will still prove to be no ‘kryptonite’ for most University Of Youtube ‘Conspiracy’ undergraduates
There is no arguing with anti vaxxers and this BBC report I found incredibly depressing on several levels
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-58169327?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6113b3ea0589ce35e4a6e99b%26Grieving%20son%20%27bombarded%27%20with%20anti-vaccine%20abuse%262021-08-11T12%3A47%3A27.034Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:e6c51919-c864-449a-a41f-cd6093fe7892&pinned_post_asset_id=6113b3ea0589ce35e4a6e99b&pinned_post_type=share
I know Marcus (guy in the link @StuE posted) I'm off social media, so I guess missing stories like this is fairly inevitable. Sad to see he's ill, can't say I'm overly surprised at his anti vax views....it's actually reasonably prevalent in mlthe circle of musos I know unfortunately. By that, I mean more prevalent than the level of vaccine uptake nationally suggests that it would/should be.
My mum is a double jabbed Staffordshire resident....we've all had Covid over that past fortnight. Unfortunately my mum is getting worse day on day at the minute. I'm actually starting to worry a bit 😔
So this world is divided into people who share your views and stupid people? Nice.
It's not about "views". Their views, your views, my views, they're worth shit. It's about actual science versus making things up. Once more with feeling: vaccination is not new, it predates our great-grandparents.
After five years of arguing about brexit I am however getting a bit bored now of moron apologists. Rather than tip-toeing round the notion that morons walk amongst us, might our efforts not be better spent acknowledging and and accepting that some people are morons and working out how to get around that?
There seems to be some sort of reverse-DK effect going on where allegedly smart people assume that everyone else is equally capable. Have we learned nothing?
