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what a load of pathetic Dail Mail style doom-mongering
As opposed to sticking your head in the sand? Toxic debt was in the news a year before things went belly up in the US.
And it was 6 months after before it's effects were fully felt in UK. I don't see this being any different to discussing the current situation in PIIGS Europe and it's effects in the UK.
A lot of people on here with a lot of monetary problems, grum. Weren't you here when the original recession started?
A lot of people on here with a lot of monetary problems, grum. Weren't you here when the original recession started?
OK, sorry but many people's monetary problems are self-inflicted.
I have had to reduce my hours at work due to long term illness and take a hefty pay cut, and I seemed to already earn less than most people on here (judging by the salaries thread), yet I manage ok. And if I lost my job I would have enough savings to manage for a little while.
I just find all the doom-mongering a little ridiculous when for most people it means that [i]maybe[/i] their incredibly comfortable lifestyle will become [i]marginally[/i] less comfortable, while millions of people around the world are starving/dying.
I'd have to agree. People these days haven't got a clue, me included!
OK, sorry but many people's monetary problems are self-inflicted.
So what if they are? You could say anyone buying a house and car based on a salary is gambling on them keeping their job? I know I sure as hell am - I mean if I lost my job I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage...
I just find all the doom-mongering a little ridiculous when for most people it means that maybe their incredibly comfortable lifestyle will become marginally less comfortable, while millions of people around the world are starving/dying.
Bit of a pointless thing to say, really. Yes, we know that there are people starving in the world, however if the economy tanks it'll still suck for us having to sell our houses or having them repossessed and all.
I also have savings but again, it'd still suck if I had to spend them. You seem to be reading strange stuff into what people are saying.
Bit of a pointless thing to say, really.
More pointless than the endless speculation and tabloid inspired fear mongering from people who have zero clue about what is going to happen in the future?
Having even a [i]tiny[/i] speck of perspective is 'a bit pointless'? Ok then.
As stated earlier "get a better paid job" is a very stupid argument
Not really. If a person can't afford the house that they want, there's only two options;
1) buy a smaller house or flat/in a different area/ of a lower value
2) earn more money
Not exactly rocket science.
what a load of pathetic Dail Mail style doom-mongering
Not really, just people sharing views on what they perceive to be going on. Now if you want doom-mongering I can point you to forums where people seem genuinely to believe that the world economy is so bad it's time to stock up on tinned food and get the rifles out before civilisation collapses... 🙂
More pointless than the endless speculation and tabloid inspired fear mongering from people who have zero clue about what is going to happen in the future?
Where are you reading that then? That's not what I took from this thread.
Having even a tiny speck of perspective is 'a bit pointless'?
Bringing it up when it's bleedin obvious is pointless, yes 🙂 Of course, we could all be dead/dying/starving etc etc, but that doesn't bring anything to the discussion about the economic crisis... If you don't want to read about it, don't - but just don't come on and berate those of us that do want an intelligent discussion.
Backhander - way to oversimplify. You're as helpful as grum!
I get a massive dose of deja vu from stuff like this.
The media talked up the crisis in the first place, people got way too scared and the recession was worse than it needed to be. Now the same seems to be happening again. To make matters worse, the to&&ers that are talking up the recession and putting forward the idiotic economic policies are now going to influence the outcome of the next election.
Yes, the same people who in the boom said 'put all your money in property, it will never go down!" Must be a sheep thing.
As stated earlier "get a better paid job" is a very stupid argumentNot really. If a person can't afford the house that they want, there's only two options;
1) buy a smaller house or flat/in a different area/ of a lower value
2) earn more money
or 3)rent until property prices become reasonable
Not exactly rocket science 🙄
Backhander - way to oversimplify.
Except that what he's saying hits the nail on the head. All the rest is pointless speculation and bullshit.
[i]I know 1876 was such a good year for industry. I miss the days when my employer could house me, dock my pay for breaking their machines, pay me in tokens for use only in their shops, injury me and then just throw me out on the streets to starve I mean who is not tired of having sick pay, paid holidays, Health and Safety I mean do we really need rights and entitlements ... You might want to check the statistics on who is most likely to be made redundant is it someone in a union or someone not in a union? Both groups contain "decent" people BTW just one lot has more ability to protect the rights and entitlements that people fought employers to get ...attitudes like yours are why we still need Unions today ...Lunch breaks are for losers [/i]
You will always be a £6 an hour man!
I sit on several H & S committees and am all for H & S standards improving, people have choices to make.
If you want to stay on the shop floor side of things accept what is good, ie a job.
Arthur Scabhill did a good job didnt he?
People like you need to try running a business, that will sort out your perspective!
3)rent until property prices become reasonable
You're failing to mention that you [i]could[/i] be waiting forever (or at least until you have saved enough to buy cash).
Possibly, yes.
Do you suggest I must buy a house, even if they're poor value?
I'm not suggesting anything, but I would argue that they're not poor value. People will pay what a property is worth. In the long (I don't know how long) run it is doubtful that you will lose money on a property if you buy intelligently. IMHO, you could be waiting a long time trying to second guess the market. Alternatively, it may be the wisest thing you ever do! I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
What mystifies me is those who think that having a job [i]entitles[/i] them to home ownership.
Except that what he's saying hits the nail on the head. All the rest is pointless speculation and bullshit.
Lol!
I was talking about oversimplification of people's circumstances with regards their houses/mortgages etc. It takes a while to sell a house, you might not be able to find another that's suitable. It also costs a lot of money, and you may be in negative equity also which would mean selling would be a bad idea. If you lose your job, these things are all problems that you might face. And it would suck to have to face them, so that would be a bad thing. Hence people's concern.
As for the entire situation, oversimplifying it again is just a bit pointless. Might as well reduce everything to 'breathe in and out, eat, sleep'.
What do you think you are bringing to the conversation? This thread is now about political and economic ideology. That is to say, what the best way to increase net happiness for everyone. And yes, it's academic, because none of us is Brown, Darling, Cameron or Osborne. So what's your point, caller?
[i]People will pay what a property is worth.[/i]
British people will pay what they can borrow, any notion of worth is secondary. Sell and rent if you think people will have more trouble borrowing and buy if you think more people will be able to borrow more.
The Office for National Statistics said that the UK's gross domestic product - the broadest measure of overall economic performance - increased by 0.3pc in the final three months of 2009, rather than the 0.1pc expansion it had previously estimated. The revision was higher than most economists had expected, and supports suspicions in the City that the economy is in fact starting to bounce back from its deepest recession in living memory.
the Telegraph today
And where is this growth supposed to come from? The level of both private and public debt means that servicing it will prevent a rapid recovery. The scope for further keynesian stimulus is small and a Tory victory would put an end to it if dogma is followed. They've decided to stop printing money (quantative easing) and banks are both reluctant to lend and taking huge margins; that makes money both difficult and expensive to borrow.
I'd like the optimists to give me something such a technological innovation to pin my hopes on.
Interesting point also from the Telegraph that GDP was actually revised down - [url= http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100004040/dont-be-fooled-gdp-was-actually-revised-down/ ]link[/url]. The extra "growth" is apparently because the previous quarters' GDP has been revised down even more. Might partly explain why Sterling went down on the news...
I'd like the optimists to give me something such a technological innovation to pin my hopes on.
Falklands oil, anyone?
chillax edukator we're about to start milkin a massive undiscovered oilfield off argentina
we're in the money, we're in the money.........
as long as on one or hope don't go bust who give's a ****
British people will pay what they can borrow, any notion of worth is secondary
That's the same thing. Worth = what people are prepared to pay. Simples. If they can borrow it then they'll pay it, and it'll be worth it by definition. You seem to be holding onto a concept of intrinsic value that's pretty meaningless.
That's the same thing. Worth = what people are prepared to pay. Simples. If they can borrow it then they'll pay it, and it'll be worth it by definition. You seem to be holding onto a concept of intrinsic value that's pretty meaningless.
So the fact that banks won't lend what they did, means houses are worth less?
I think you have to get around the fact that the housing market is not [i]that [/i]simple.
People will [i]buy[/i] what they can borrow. And people naturally do their homework and make a best judgement on what a house is truly worth when it comes to buy.
And there is some truth in that when banks don't lend houses are worth less. Unless we're all cash buyers.
It comes around to simple economics of supply and demand. When banks don't lend (easily) - demand is lowered. But the current lack of supply means the price of houses is being kept on a high.
"the current lack of supply means the price of houses is being kept on a high"
Bingo.
If you look on Rightmove there are plenty of houses that have been on the market for quite some time, lots for 12+ months. So if there is such high demand why haven't they sold? Maybe because their price is too high? But if the demand is so high, they can justify a high price right? Or maybe the supply demand argument isn't necessarily correct? 😀
Maybe the recent increase in house prices is a statistical anomaly? The proportion of buyers in the market has reduced significantly since the onset of the credit crunch, hence a larger proportion of transactions are made 'further up' the market and this has the effect of skewing house prices upwards. Most of the media just spout out the headline figures and don't delve into the fine details of how these figures are calculated.
As always, all IMHO. 😀
daves mum - this skewing effect of yours is the first I've heard. Unless the people "further up" the market are buying and selling amongst themselves it cannot be true. So definitely [i]only[/i] in your (humble) opinion.
As previously stated the housing market is not that simple. The houses that are selling (and fast) are good quality homes in prime locations. And for sure there are plenty of houses priced up incorrectly that seem to be sticking but their eventual sale prices will still be "up" on their previous year's value.
3 years ago I was looking at buying a flat in Hampton - GBP270k. I were able to get a mortgage no problem. But it was cheaper to rent so this I did.
Now the flat is back on the market - GBP165k. Any viewings? Still pretty much none.
I'm glad the market has corrected itself but the prices in many places are still far too high. Not all of them but some.
BTW My boss has a building company, they do mostly supermarkets, shopping centres, large developments. 3 years ago some of his staff were on 2-3k Euro per week, now most struggle to get 350 Euro weekly. House prices - 50 per cent down in 18 months (that's in Skerries). Rent - 30 per cent down in a year (Drogheda). If it carries on like that I'll exchange my Heckler for a house in a couple of years 😉
The reason houses have been sticking on the market is down to the price the seller is willing to accept. A lot of people seem to believe that their house is an exception to the pricing movements over the last couple of years, so is still worth the same as it was at the peak of the market. Whilst prices are heading back up again, I don't think they have anywhere like the value they did back in the summer of 2007 as yet. As a result people can buy either a similar house for less, or a better house for the same (this is what we did - the house we wanted about a year ago at the bottom of the market was overpriced and they would not accept the market trends based offer that we made. Another, better, house came up during this negotiation that we then bought for £20k less than they wanted. Their house is still on the market and I laugh every time I walk past it!)
Coincidentally I'm heading to Skerries with the kids today.
On a more serious note, the housing market in the Free State was being manipulated, as it was here in the 6 counties. Builders were buying land banks and just sitting on them to create artificial shortages. Another trick was building a development and only releasing a few houses to again create an artificial shortage.
There are three large 5 bedroom detached houses directly opposite me. All lying empty because the builder is asking for too much. However, he bought the site at a premuium and it looks like if he sells at all it will be at a significant loss.
Seems to me there is now a massive oversupply. In addition, many migrant workers are leaving the sinking ship, leaving many with empty investment properties.
I think property prices have further to fall. I bought my house in 2001 and I expect its value to drop below the price I paid at that stage.
Ireland has been hit one of the worst in the recession. The fall in house prices over there doesn't surprise me.
Flats have been hit bad. This type of housing is in abundance and some fell to half their peak value.
The area I am looking to buy in is now within 10% or so of its peak 2007 values.