What does this even mean? It makes no difference because you say it doesn't? Yes let's ignore the reasons why things happen and talk about moral truth.
Why are you so belligerent? Are you [i]really[/i] that angry?
🙄 the moral truth is all that matters. The arguments you make are relevant of course but no matter what, individuals have the choice to say no. There is no force, no subliminal advertising, no lack of alternatives. You still have the ultimate say, it's your responsibility to choose.
Rather depends what you choose to buy from there, no?
1) You could go into Sainsbury's every day and come out with a 1kg ready made trifle, just as you could go into MacDonalds every day and come out with a salad.
You both missed the fact that I was specifically referring to the sandwich, crisps and apple he mentioned - not just buying anything from Sainsburys.
How many people actually buy salads from McDonalds I wonder (and weren't they found to have more fat in than a Big Mac anyway?).
I sort of take the point that McDonalds get more bad press than other companies that do bad things, but that's mainly because they are probably the biggest purveyors of crap food, that market it most aggressively to children.
Why are you so belligerent? Are you really that angry?
It's interesting that you perceive that as belligerence, it was more being bemused by your statement being completely dismissive while not really making any sense.
These two statements are completely contradictory:
the moral truth is all that matters.
The arguments you make are relevant of course
The supermarkets and the manufacturers are the enemy here.
The supermarkets have pulled off one of the greatest scams ever IMHO. People just assume that they're cheap. They're anything but! If you want to eat decent food, at least.
Fresh fruit and veg is twice the price in the supermarket, as it is the greengrocers round the corner. Same with meat and fish, compared to butchers. Yet the myth of value remains
You both missed the fact that I was specifically referring to the sandwich, crisps and apple he mentioned - not just buying anything from Sainsburys.
Still varies massively though. What sandwich will sir be having? The boiled chicken salad with no mayo, or the all day breakfast triple? White or brown bread? Crisps aren't exactly the healthy choice either! Apple juice is full of sugar.....
I'm not trying to pick holes, just illustrate that it's all about choices.
Hang on, I thought we were in favour of individual responsibility? I'm not sure when pubs started heavily marketing their products towards children though. And yes, it is irresponsible for pubs to serve alcoholics, or people that are already drunk - some of them don't. I doubt McDonalds have ever turned anyone away for being too fat.
The alcohol industry (on which pubs rely) spends silly amounts on advertising and promotion. Our culture celebrates the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Our children see drinking alcohol as normal and acceptable, mainly. So you're kind of losing the anti-McDs argument here. you could eat solely in Mc Ds and survive (albeit you'd probably be quite unhealthy). If you consumed nothing but alcohol you'd be dead very quickly. so will oyu now be campaigning for all pubs to be closed down?
i doubt any pub has ever turned away anyone for being an alcoholic.
and weren't they found to have more fat in than a Big Mac anyway?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were the case, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the sandwiches and salads in the supermarkets were worse than a Big Mac as well. MacDonalds sells food that isn't the healthiest, but there are hundreds of other places that sell food that is just as bad for you, if not worse. Banning MacDonalds isn't the answer to our obesity problems, unless all the fatties are visiting MacDonalds 3 or 4 times a week, then they must be getting a lot of unhealthy food from elsewhere too.
i doubt any pub has ever turned away anyone for being an alcoholic.
Bet a fair few have for being too pissed though.
These two statements are completely contradictory:
I was trying to appease you. Keep you calm.
Still varies massively though. What sandwich will sir be having? The boiled chicken salad with no mayo, or the all day breakfast triple? White or brown bread? Crisps aren't exactly the healthy choice either! Apple juice is full of sugar.....I'm not trying to pick holes, just illustrate that it's all about choices.
I understand the point, but my experience is that in McDonalds no-one has the healthy option, ever. Why would you? I certainly don't if I go there. Let's face it it's only really there as a sop to healthy eating, not to actually be consumed.
Sainsburys has a pretty broad range of stuff which people actually go there for, from healthy to rubbish - not just a massive shop full of crap, with a tiny shelf of vegetables hidden in the corner. I'd be quite happy if they sold less crap and more healthy stuff btw.
The alcohol industry (on which pubs rely) spends silly amounts on advertising and promotion. Our culture celebrates the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Our children see drinking alcohol as normal and acceptable, mainly.
Yes, I don't think that's particularly great either, but then this thread is about fast food, not alcohol - we could do this 'whataboutery' all day if you like.
Banning MacDonalds isn't the answer to our obesity problems, unless all the fatties are visiting MacDonalds 3 or 4 times a week, then they must be getting a lot of unhealthy food from elsewhere too.
Nice straw man there - has anyone called for banning McDonalds? And I would say visiting McDonalds 3-4 times a week is far from uncommon.
so anyway, back to the pub in question... most of the people signing the petition, and indeed most of the people standing outside of the pub 2 saturdays ago with banners didn't go there regularly and even if it did open again, probably still wouldn't as i know most of em and they're either not local, or exactly the people who used to moan it was rubbish.
so anyway, back to the pub in question... most of the people signing the petition, and indeed most of the people standing outside of the pub 2 saturdays ago with banners didn't go there regularly and even if it did open again, probably still wouldn't as i know most of em and they're either not local, or exactly the people who used to moan it was rubbish.
Up the road from me, there are two pubs. One is closed, one is thriving. The latter has made a real effort to do something different. The former was just a rather sad place with a couple of blokes nursing pints of lager.
Pubs can, and do, thrive at the moment. It's sad to see so many shutting down, but when they do, I think we'd all rather see something constructive in their place rather than a boarded up old wreck. McD's, for all their faults and strengths, are better than a boarded up old wreck. By far.
Yes, I don't think that's particularly great either, but then this thread is about fast food, not alcohol - we could do this 'whataboutery' all day if you like.
Both are potentially damaging to individuals and society. Yet you're choosing to attack one particular company, rather than be focussed on the whole picture. My point is that if you're going to attack/oppose McDs on health grounds, then you're hypocritical if you don't also include the alcoholic drinks industry.
having lived quite close to a pub, I think I'd rather live near a McDs, as you don't tend to get so many pissed up idiots urinating in doorways/vomiting in the gutter/fighting/being noisy late at night/smashing glass etc as a result of Mcds being there than you do with (some) pubs
Thing is, its like the belief that "fast food" is cheap
fish and chips for two is a clear tenner now, KFC bucket is more, maccy d for two is nearly ten quid
Go into wetherspooons on a tuesday night and you can 2x get steak, chips and two pints for less than that 😀
Full roast dinner for £5.99, with as much veg as you like round the corner at the Toby carvery 8)
So why is it that we are facing an obesity crisis then? Has peoples' fundamental nature just changed in the last few decades to become much, much greedier and lazier, for no apparent reason?
Reduced manual labour combined with an increase in knowledge-based jobs / computers etc means the workforce is far less active, therefore we need less calories to survive. Oh - better housing, better heating, less poverty and playstations have had a big impact. Car ownership has also increased. Disposable income and the rise of eating out have had an impact.
So - our nature has probably changed less in many ways - but lots of things have changed in our culture(s), not just one. Unless you still want to demonise Ronald.
Back to the OP - people are reactive on the whole - not proactive. They will rally against something after the event far more than they will rise up and do something to prevent that event happening.
The average sandwich from Sainsburys will have around the same nutritional value as a big mac.
I mean which planet are some of you on
Sainsburys sells C200g of sandwich including protein item, sauce, lettuce and bread.
The only difference is at macdonalds is that its round and served hot
Do you think cutting a sandwich into triangles and serving it cold means its better for you
Just a load of ignorant NIMBY muppets
Both are potentially damaging to individuals and society. Yet you're choosing to attack one particular company, rather than be focussed on the whole picture.
Yes, because whenever anyone criticises anything, it's important that they remember to immediately criticise everything else in the whole world that's worthy of criticism too, for fear of being hypocritical. 😕
A pub has the potential to cause harm, but also has potential social benefits as a community hub etc. Certainly based on the McDonalds I worked at the social benefits were pretty much zero.
Reduced manual labour combined with an increase in knowledge-based jobs / computers etc means the workforce is far less active, therefore we need less calories to survive. Oh - better housing, better heating, less poverty and playstations have had a big impact. Car ownership has also increased. Disposable income and the rise of eating out have had an impact.So - our nature has probably changed less in many ways - but lots of things have changed in our culture(s), not just one. Unless you still want to demonise Ronald.
Yes those are potential factors too, but I'm pretty sure most of the latest research suggests diet is far more important than levels of physical activity (and that levels of physical activity haven't actually changed as much as is sometimes made out).
The average sandwich from Sainsburys will have around the same nutritional value as a big mac.
If you choose an unhealthy one then yes, you're right.
You can get a full roast dinner carvery for £3.99 at the pub* up the road from me. I'd rather eat a Maccy Ds any day of the week (or go hungry for that matter!)
*I'd not really call this a pub, its a junk food chain styled to mimic a traditional British drinking establishment. Its about as much a pub as Nandos is a genuine Portuguese restaurant.
And finally, can you really make a proper, nutritious meal from fresh ingredients for 11p/22p/33p?
Ask Sodexo. They run the PAYD setup for the forces and the opinions on that are... mixed. My personal opinion is that some canteens/messes do a good job and others don't. One of my least enjoyable eating experiences ever was in a PAYD mess hall.
Go into wetherspooons on a tuesday night and you can get [s]steak, chips and two pints for less than that[/s] glassed
FTFY 😉
They should have built a mahoosive Greggs instead!
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so anyway, back to the pub in question... most of the people signing the petition, and indeed most of the people standing outside of the pub 2 saturdays ago with banners didn't go there regularly and even if it did open again, probably still wouldn't as i know most of em and they're either not local, or exactly the people who used to moan it was rubbish.
That's becasue it WAS rubbish! God, I spent enough time in there, I should know. Friendly though, and good music.
But there was banners and stuff was there? I missed that. I think we were out on a bike ride in the morning and then we went to [s]Blazingsmoke[/s] [s]Basinghole[/s] Basingstoke 🙂
Well I hadn't seen those cartoon network ads. Not terribly impressed.
If i saw rubbish from my business littering the road i would be deeply ashamed.
Come off it. People who want to eat in their cars will do so, if they feel like chucking the rubbish out of the window they will do. I don't think the vendor has much to do with it.
Lots of snobbery on here.
The building next to my wife's bakery shop was for years semi-derelict looking and used for furniture storage by a student landlord. Just over a year ago he leased it to Sainsburys who turned it into a 'Local'. Since then my wife's takings have increased 40% as it contributes to making the whole area look smarter.
diet is far more important than levels of physical activity
Diet. Is that the stuff people buy at home, or is everyone just eating badly when they go to McD's? Education, not availability of the product, is to blame. People can still buy cigarettes, but less do because of education - and death of course - but education is the answer.
Yes, because whenever anyone criticises anything, it's important that they remember to immediately criticise everything else in the whole world that's worthy of criticism too, for fear of being hypocritical.
McDs are far from being the only culprits in this. so if you;'re goijng to crticise companies that help create a problem, it's unfair to target just one.
The alcohol industry is just as deserving of criticism as are McDs. Yet you chose to ignore them in your crusade against poor health. Just focussing on one part of things, rather than looking at the whole picture. Focussing on just one company as you are, means that other companies don't suffer the scrutiny they desrve.
I bought 200 cigarettes last week - £75! 😯
banners and the fantastically productive 'honk if you want to save the tumbly' signs. i of course honked because it amused me to make a girl on the end not looking jump out of her skin 😀
only saw one person there in the crowd who used to work there.
was definitely more excited about my new pair of welly boots from b&q than i was saving the tumbly.
instead of a mcdonalds they should turn it into one of those s****y new drive-through starbucks or costas.
People would still be fat without McDonalds, i work with lots of different people...old, young, men, women and most are overweight....most dont eat McDonalds everyday either so to blame one fast food company is ridiculous.
Most dont take any exercise at all....i mean none, and the few that go to a gym go through the motions without breaking sweat....i know i've trained alongside them in a futile attempt to switch them onto the exercise bug.
Most of my mates have mountain bikes....sat in the shed, they think its weird that i cycle all the time.
Beer is full of calories....among my colleagues and friends alcohol intake seems to be a daily occurence, eating at Maccy-D's is not.....what is making people fat is spending every evening sat on the sofa drinking beer/wine and eating dinner....night after night after night.
I work in the NHS, you'd like to think that as a group we'd be more clued up than most about diet/exercise/smoking etc....not a chance, meal breaks in the crew room are an eye opener as people devour bags of crisps, chocolate bars, cans of coke etc....then there are the sugar and salt laden microwave meals....eaten daily of course, it's easier isnt it?
Nobody puts a gun to their heads to eat like this, some just couldnt care less, some have no idea what they're doing wrong....
....when i was very lean and very fit i ate a cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and an evening meal, drank loads of water and went kickboxing twice a week (with the odd gym session and cycling too), i would pass on desert if i was out on a meal with family/friends and would often pick the salad as a main course....i looked great and felt great but bloody hell it was boring and took some will power to say the least....the reason obesity is on the rise is not because of McDonalds but simply human nature and the path of least resistance.
Certainly based on the McDonalds I worked at the social benefits were pretty much zero
You're basing this on one McDs you worked at for a short time some years ago you know.... And you keep going on and on and on and on about it. Give it a rest eh? [/stuckrecord]
I'm sure it's not the best job in the world, no. I'm sure you have to work hard (Ahh diddums) for your money, but apart from the 2 secondments I've done away from the quarry I've not had a lunch break AT ALL in nearly 12 years. My heart bleeds for you. Not.
🙂
My major complaint about McDonalds is that they don't have mozzarella dippers on the menu all the time
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Mmmmmmmmm... deep fried cheese.
Hang on a minute. My arms started hurting. In fact I can't feel it......
Just going back to that link I posted to the Guardian article on nutrition - there were a few families scrimping big time when buying food for themselves and their children. Interesting though that they continued with their basic £25 per month Sky subscription. 😐
My priority would have been feeding the kids properly and doing without Sky.
Lots of snobbery on here.
Examples please? Apart from the pro-McDonalds advocates claiming it's 'people think it's for chavs' I haven't seen any.
You're basing this on one McDs you worked at for a short time some years ago you know.... And you keep going on and on and on and on about it. Give it a rest eh? [/stuckrecord]
I'm sorry, I should based my opinions on absolutely nothing like everyone else in this thread eh?
that's a point how far will macdonalds litter patrol go if you inform them of big dumping sites?If i saw rubbish from my business littering the road i would be deeply ashamed.
Plenty of idiots go to McDs drive thru, head up to the hills so they have a picturesque view of bolton town centre (as seen through fog and rain) whilst stuffing their pieholes then offload the wrappers out of their windows.
a meal only holds a kids attention whilst they're eating... sky keeps them out the parents hair for hours a day allowing the parents to sit outside the front of the house smoking and throwing empty tenants cans at people with proper haircuts.
MEDICAL FACT.
based my opinions on absolutely nothing like everyone else in this thread eh?
:O i take offence. did you not see my medical fact?!
People can still buy cigarettes, but less do because of education - and death of course - but education is the answer.
Education is directly counteracted by the massive advertising spend of junk food companies though.
:O i take offence. did you not see my medical fact?!
You'll have to remind me, though no doubt it was all kinds of awesome. 🙂
I'm sure it's not the best job in the world, no. I'm sure you have to work hard (Ahh diddums) for your money, but apart from the 2 secondments I've done away from the quarry I've not had a lunch break AT ALL in nearly 12 years. My heart bleeds for you. Not.
Another great argument - 'my working conditions are crap, so therefore it's fine for other people to get treated like crap too, so that a massive company already making a huge profit can make a bit more' 😕
The irony of all this is that soon, you'll have handy access to the best hangover cure known to man, in a former boozer....
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😀
Certainly based on the McDonalds I worked at the social benefits were pretty much zero
I've worked for some shitty companies too*. I don't think McDs have the monopoly on treating staff like crap.
*one of the worst was a bike shop!
I've worked for some shitty companies too*. I don't think McDs have the monopoly on treating staff like crap.*one of the worst was a bike shop!
When you worked in the bike shop, and someone came in to complain about something, did you say 'yeah well what about the worker's conditions in the factory where they made your smartphone, you massive hypocrite?'
I can see why that wouldn't have worked out well for you. 😛
When you worked in the bike shop, and someone came in to complain about something, did you say 'yeah well what about the worker's conditions in the factory where they made your smartphone, you massive hypocrite?'
Ok so you've lost the argument now you're just desperately clutching at staws.
At least you got a lunch break at McDs.
Another great argument
Thanks! 🙂
Mmmmmmmmm... deep fried cheese.
Of course, McDs did not invent those...
So to get the debate back on topic, let's acknowledge a few things.
1) People will always be tempted to eat unhealty food, some will be able to resist it better than others.
2) Unhealthy food will always be available and highly profitable - see 1) above.
3) It's always better to have buildings in use than derilict.
So given those points, it's hard to sympathise with the protesters, isn't it?
Btw, for those who've never been, Farnborough town centre is a pretty crappy new town without much to recommend it, unfortunately. There aren't even many of the typical big chains there - it's as if they can't be bothered - ironically this means many independent shops, but in the form of discount home goods and pound shops. It's a shame because I get the impression there's loads of life being lived in the area.
Nowt wrong with a big mac now and again. Their coffee is cheap and quite nice and the toilets are always clean.
I'm sorry, I should based my opinions on absolutely nothing like everyone else in this thread eh?
Well, I've got about 4 times the experience that you have of working in fast food: Nearly 2 years as a KFC supervisor, and as a delivery driver for Dominos more recently. Plus I worked in the pub in question.
One nil to me. 😛 🙂
One nil to me.
Oof. Back of the net.
