Our friends are absolutely minted. He works hard and earns his money.
We were out for dinner just before the big euro millions draw. He was saying that he'd bought 10 tickets and what he would do if he won.
He feels hard done by as they have to rent a villa and staff in Mustique for their 3 week holiday.
Owning the villa is the true sign of success.
I guess you are never happy.
There are a number of factors at play, but children and retirement have a big impact
For children there are two bigs things - having enough to be comfortable as a family and provide them with what you'd like, and then being able to set them up for the future e.g. a deposit for a house
I'd sort of be interested to understand what people consider to be a good job/good salary, and then how it compares to now (if you've made a conscious lifestyle choice)
There's no question that you live within your means, and as your earning goes up so do your tastes
[I also like buying new toys]
I guess you are never happy.
"We could go anywhere. All the problems would remain."
I guess you are never happy.
You could be a multi millionaire and have the biggest yacht in the harbour and feel king of the world. But when an even bigger yacht pulls up next to you, you're still a millionaire but you feel completely inadequate.
I'd sort of be interested to understand what people consider to be a good job/good salary
I think this depends on where in the country you are and if you have baught house how long ago. I live in the south earn about £30k, which is technicaly above average (but I bet still within 1 or 2 S.D so still within a average range) live frugally but have little spare cash due to cost of living.
I've never been materialistic, just wanted enough to get by on.
I used to chase the money, usually working in some shithole for 2-3 months, away from home, missing the mrs and kids, now realise life is far too short, the clock doesn't stop, when its gone, its gone, family life is far too precious IMO.
I live 30 minutes from the open ocean, five minutes from a beach, and ten minutes ride from the brewery. sweet.
Upon the birth of our Daughter 10 years ago I decided to stop pursuing promotion at work and avoid the 6 months a year away from home this would have entailed. As others have said, my kids won't ski, our cars are utilitarian and our house is quite small.
On the other hand, I see my kids every day of the week, we love the holidays we have and I have enough time to train properly for 12 hour solo 'racing'.
No one ever regrets having not spent enough time in the office.
You could be a multi millionaire and have the biggest yacht in the harbour and feel king of the world. But when an even bigger yacht pulls up next to you, you're still a millionaire but you feel completely inadequate.
But that is your choice to feel inadequate or otherwise, surely.
I have a varied experience. I used to earn quite well and was on the up, got divorced, packed in the stressful job but ultimately lost the money I had poured into a big house and mortgage. So starting again I have a more modest house an old car and a boring but easy job. I don't covet other's success and attainment I just enjoy what I have and plan carefully. You really don't need all that stuff.
"We could go anywhere. All the problems would remain."
I'm amazed at certain surveys, where around 70percent of the population say they are "happy" or "very happy".
Where are these people, as I think I've only met two of them my entire life.
I was brought up in the 80s, and the teachers and parents would bang on about fulfilment, being happy etc. This was a nice bubble while it lasted but it's not true, really.
It took a period of adjustment, to accepting the fact that life is above all tough, for many it is suffering, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune etc etc, until I found a little peace with the world.
[i]and a boring but easy job.[/i]
Seriously - how do you find one of these??
And I have a status problem - I need to feel I'm higher up the foodchain than others.
I have to confess I suffer from this. I don't like it at all, but it's there.
DrJ, I "semi-retired" aged 30.
Since then I've worked on average 15hrs a week.
It's not such a chore as to make me think working in my 70s will be anything other than an interesting diversion, something to keep my mind ticking over and something social.
In theory, if Mrs stoner and I were to down tools now, liquidate all assets, tell the kids they're funding their own higher education and moved to a cottage in France we could do so at age 40ish and not have to worked again.
But I saw what that did to my dad's mental health 10yrs ago and I'd rather keep my hand in something.
BTW I've met a few high net worth individuals through my work and to a man and woman I wouldn't call them happy, and most of them have no cash at the bank despite being worth 10s or 100s of £m
But that is your choice to feel inadequate or otherwise, surely.
On the whole, I think it is a choice. But for so many people it seems pretty central to their idea of who they are: the proverbial keeping up with the Joneses.
We might all laugh, but there are very few like you or Stoner, and plenty more like me and footflaps. At least he and I have the wherewithal to recognise it for what it is..!
That said, self employment is becoming an increasingly attractive proposition: I suspect I could earn as well (if not better) and just deal with doiong the job (though in fact, the "job" bit is the thing I like the least about work).
Used to work with someone that left a mid-level IT job to start a Christian mission somewhere in Africa. I sort of admired the conviction in his (and his wife's presumably) faith but on the other hand he had 4 kids so can't really say it's fair on them (especially as I'm, at best, agnostic).
Interesting thread.
Like many others I did the London, build career, earn a lot thing while I was young. Pretty much stumbled into doing well as I enjoyed most of the work and was offered better roles, promotion and money. Saved a lot of it which has been helpful recently.
Then decided to stop climbing the ladder with a young daughter and stop doing stupid hours. Walking her to school and being there to pick her up 2 or 3 days a week was one of the best decisions I've made.
Now in a job that I really don't enjoy but I work with nice people, am good at what I do and earn a stupid amount. Would be nice to quit and have a simpler life but having no money worries makes it really difficult.
I had this sort of choice in front of me about 10 years ago. Go south and take up a job offer on the corporate ladder climb to high wages and eventual high pension, or stay put in a rural part of Scotland..
I'm still in the same modest house, with an outside fire facing a magnificent view of 50 miles of mountains. The modestly paid job means I'll be paying the mortgage for a while yet but I have trails from the door and can afford food, bills and occasional trips away. I can commute to work over the hills or by reasonable roads and I've an amazing network of pals in the outdoor industry. Happy? Yes, very; most of the time too. I'm unlikely to be able to afford a new FS 650b any time soon but trust me, that really doesn't matter.
It's interesting, my experience has been that I value time and saving more now than I have ever done. While I am very comfortable I also critically assess any spend now in terms of how many years I could live off it or live of it being invested. As a result we've restructured a few things and decided to change our spending habits. We're not on budget beans but we aren't extravagant (bikes are an exception !) Time with my daughter is gold, 2 funerals in the last 2 weeks of people sub 50 told me all I need to know - one, total workaholic - sparse attendance, not special, other one massive attendance, lots of smiling friends lamenting a lost light one line in an hour about his work, the rest on family, friends and how we loved and lived. It was quite stark to me. Nobody rewards an office slave, your family deserve better - easy to say, hard to do.
Given the choice between happy parents and wealthy parents I think that happy parents win every time
There is a happy medium though. If work is fun then that's important for your own wellbeing, and if it pays well to allow you to have the things you like and support your family, without making you work 12 hours a day everyday, then that's pretty good no?
Did anyone mention mrmoneymoustache yet as an alternative method......
Personally i think its a touch extreme but its a different outlook on living.
There is no one size fits all answer. My plan was to have everything paid off by the time I was 55 but that did not work out. I will be 60 in April and I guess I have earned decent money since I was 25 and very good money from my early 30s . Our house is neither huge or small but its almost paid off. I have never driven flash cars(not interested in them. My jobs have taken me all over the world, a small amount of the travel has been great, most of its been average at best. My hours are often very long with plenty of hassle and as you go up the slippy ladder you meet more people you would rather not be around and a growing number of budding despots.
By way of contrast my wife has always opted for a low paid local jobs working with kids, she enjoys school holidays, her colleagues are pleasant and there’s minimal stress. I don’t think she is happier than me right now although I think she was happier when she was at home with the kids.
FWIW we don't have a second house or holiday home and we don't take expensive holidays, in fact we have not had a decent holiday in a long time and yet I don't have enough to retire. So where’s the money gone ? Good question.
I have three daughters and they have had some of it, I’ve no idea how much, I have paid for decent second hand cars, car insurance, house deposits for them but etc plus me and my sister help our parents out whenever there's a need to do so.
So how does that link in to being happy and I am more or less happy than my biking mates and the honest answer is yes and no. There is always someone who outwardly seems happier and those who don't. One of my mates has some decent bikes, has numerous budget skiing holidays each year and has a decent paid job that’s stress free but and there is nearly always a but -- he is missing other aspects of a good life that some of us take for granted. I have other mates who earn buttons who appear happy and some who don't.
For me it starts with having the right partner, if you and partner are on the same wavelength and you are confident that work, kids and sickness and the other big challenges in life won’t impact on your “wavelength harmony” then you have the basis of a happy life. Next up is health, physical and mental, tick that off and that’s another big step towards being happy. Then there’s work, find something you are good at, if you are good at it, chances are you will enjoy it. Finally the all-important aspiration balance, ie are your aspirations realistic and shared by your partner.There’s no point lusting over a Porsche if you’re never going to own one or your partner thinks it’s a complete and utter waste of money, ditto a huge house, private education, the list is as long as your imagination.
Its been said a million or more times but money on its own won’t make you happy, nor will having bags of free time if you’re not doing something with that free time that you both feel is worthwhile. And its also the case that lots of free time and very little money is not a good mix either. Use your head whilst following your heart and if you’re going to make big decisions do them before your 35 because you will still have plenty of time to bounce back should you need to. Onward and upward fellow Single Trackers.
well said pb2!
Make sure you've got a buffer before you downshift. I downshifted straight out of uni. With fairly significant debts.
Trying to upshift again in my 30's was tricky with a slightly spotty employment history.
But all good now. Pension, mortgage, company car. Never going to be rich, comfortable at best, but should be able to retire before 60. Or maybe 65. Possibly 70. Or 75. 😕
