A small individual house built in 1933 but no longer cold and draughty, Doris. Walls, floor and roof all well insulated, triple-glazed windows, LEDs everywhere, low consumption appliances.
The car will be useless for a trip to our caravan in North Wales as we couldn't charge it
nor will it cater for my requirement to deliver grandfather clocks to the other end of the country*.
the average car journey in the UK is 7 miles.
*i have no such requirement.
Why do electric cars still look the same as a combustion engine car? Whats under the bonnet?
The motor, inverter and whatnot are fairly large, and there's still all the ancillary things for cabin heating / cooling, brakes, power steering etcetera.
That said, when our Zoe was new an indicator bulb wasn't quite clicked home properly; I could have changed it with boxing gloves on there was so much space around it. It was truly a revelation compared to most cars that need triple jointed, child sized arms with no qualms about getting scratched and dirty...
We just got our Zoe back today after getting it repaired due to someone driving into it. I am so excited about driving home later, it's just such a lovely experience compared to any petrol and especially diesel car I've driven. The courtesy car was a new automatic Corsa, and it really was shit.
The courtesy car was a new automatic Corsa, and it really was shit.
LOL. truely hateful. they must have put some effort in to making corsas such bad cars.
the average car journey in the UK is 7 miles.
Yes but that doesn't mean all journeys are of average length.....
Kia Soul tested at the weekend.
Great drive, quiet and smooth. Lots of toys and big in the front. Good for the Gfs shorter journeys.
Ordered on lease 1100+199 a month. I reckon 4 ish quid for a tank full of leccy. That should last around 120miles depending on where and how it's driven.
Cheaper to lease than to buy new in this instance by a long shot.
BEVerly my i3
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I'm lucky enough to work in the car industry and have driven pretty much everything with wheels on. And yet the i3 is probably one of the best cars i've ever driven (not the fastest, not the most exciting, not the biggest, not the flashyest, not the most expensive, but, as an overall package, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT at just getting you around!)
Running costs are so low as to be not worth adding up. It went in for it's 2 year service a month or so back, and that cost £196, which actually doubled the years running costs including fuel.....
4th year driving a Leaf.
The worst thing about driving it is having to listen to the ill-informed shit about batteries and sources of electricity production etc. It is more sustainable and non-polluting than a fossil fuel vehicle. Fact.
The charging infrastructure is messy and has a long way to go before it works properly.
Range needs to be around 200 miles to be enough for most people as an only car. Saying that I get about 120 and it's enough for me. I don't pay for my fuel, get free charging at work and there's a few free chargers about. A 6.6kWh onboard charger makes a difference IMO as you get a useful amount from the fast chargers dotted around.
2 more years and they'll really be there. Some very good second-hand deals around, as a runaround car it's a no brainer.
They are excellent to drive, actually makes commuting more fun.
Also been looking at the new Soul, looks nice.
The local auction house sometimes get a Leaf for sale.
They are really cheap, suppose folk are scared off due to Battery ignorance.
Wonder if the warranty is transferable as the cars are from Lease companies?
I'd be interested but mu commute is 55 miles each way and I don't have charging at work. A mate is looking as his commute is 17 miles and his current car's got to 155,000 miles and starting to cost a bit.
And yet the i3 is probably one of the best cars i've ever driven (not the fastest, not the most exciting, not the biggest, not the flashyest, not the most expensive, but, as an overall package, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT at just getting you around!)
That's interesting as cars are always reviewed on speed, practically, handling and mpg etc but very rarely observed is how stressful a car is to drive.
The Soul had no lag, no gear change jump (eat your heart out my own DSG) , super smooth poise and no engine noise of course. All add up to a pleasant driving experience.
A new way of appreciating a car.
However I can see how this range anxiety could be a 'thing'.
I also wonder in the future if demand for EVs and electric power starts to compete with petrol , does that mean electricity being market driven will also rocket up as demand increases, and get taxed etc. Thereby negating one of its major benefits.
BEVerly my i3
Do you have the range extender? I've heard that it's unpleasantly noisy when it cuts in.
That's interesting as cars are always reviewed on speed, practically, handling and mpg etc but very rarely observed is how stressful a car is to drive.
Same for the Prius. So easy to drive - you can be as clumsy as you like with the pedals and it doesn't jerk the passengers around.
Cheaper than petrol or diesel,
But is it? Comparisons are usually against EVs with a subsidy of several thousand pounds to buy and electricity with a 5% VAT rate against ICEs which have heavy taxes on both ownership and fuel.
EVs subsidies will not be there if ownership ever approches mass market.
My dad's just bought a Tesla Model S (2nd hand). I'll update you in a year, if you can hang on? 😀
I like the idea of the i3 with range extender, bit expensive though.
£36500..
Bit much innit.
IMHO Electric cars are old tech dressed up as new.
Think scalectrix,you use your battery to drive to the motorway and then hook in to the power track then you can drive as far as you like the battery part ceases to be an issue as you dont need to carry energy to power the car.
No-one wants to pay for the infrastructure thou 🙁
IMHO Electric cars are old tech dressed up as new.
Electric motors are not new, but burning fossil fuel is medieval.
Range extenders so far have been either normal engines or, as in the case of the i3, a motorbike engine. I dunno why they can't fit a really efficient generator tuned to a single speed and load.
EVs subsidies will not be there if ownership ever approches mass market
Total cost of ownership my be wobbly - but if it suits your lifestyle and you have a tariff of about 12pKW - then it's almost certainly cheaper to run.
That's why I'm leasing, depreciation is way more on a purchase in my case.
@rone, what's the battery cost?
i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else's problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs?
i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else's problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs?
The battery isn't separate on the Kia Soul. So all in.
7 year warranty includes battery on the Kia.
My dad's just bought a Tesla Model S (2nd hand). I'll update you in a year, if you can hang on?
Out of my league but interested nonetheless.
"I can't get my head around the silly battery leasing options though!"
"@rone, what's the battery cost?
i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else's problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs? "
Please, if people take one thing away from these threads its this:
YOU DON'T RENT THE BATTERIES ANYMORE!!!!!
All EV's on the market with one exception (Zoe) are battery bought and even Renault have woken up and will be discontinuing that system next year.
EV batteries are warrantied for a MINIMUM of 5 years - they have to be to obtain the government subsidy. There are many manufacturers who exceed this including Nissan, Kia, Tesla and Hyundai
Renting batteries was only ever offered on a few gen 1 Leafs and the Zoe and its predecessor the hilariously named e-Fluence
Why this myth persists I don't know. You buy/rent/contract an EV like any other vehicle
Why this myth persists I don't know. You buy/rent/contract an EV like any other vehicle
Because car manufacturing websites are rubbish at imparting information?
Please, if people take one thing away from these threads its this:YOU DON'T RENT THE BATTERIES ANYMORE!!!!!
noted - thanks for the clarification. But -
Why this myth persists I don't know.
I'll tell you! It's because many people (unlike, it seems, most of STW) don't actually buy new cars. So I go and look up used EVs [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/should-you-buy-a-used-electric-car-a7704121.html ]and see articles like this from April 2017[/url] - which state quite clearly that you need to pay to lease a battery. I didn't realize that they're all moving away from this, and that this info only really relates to older cars - and those articles don't really make it clear.
@Doris - you are spot on. The amount of incorrect and disinformation out their on EV's is incredible. Even that reasonably researched article you linked to has several mistakes and doesn't really explain that you would be crazy to buy a second hand battery lease car, even at £3000 as you are entering into an unlimited rental contract on a second hand vehicle. There are legions of stories out there on EV forums of people locked into battery lease contracts they can't get out of easily.
Its the same with depreciation - they are based on the list price before the £5k grant comes off and skewed by the battery leasing options to give a incorrect depreciation percentage. New EV's depreciate no more than other cars (still a lot obviously) and infact my secondhand one (2yrs old at point of purchase) has flatlined this year as EV's have gained popularity and I could sell it for waht i bought it for despite it having 12k more on the clock!
Fancying something like a Kia Soul EV for shorter journeys.Not necessarily a financial or environmental switch but would seem to make a sensible second car as we don't need two big cars.
Interested in how people felt about charging at home given the long charge times.
Wife's colleague has one (Soul EV) as a company car. Charges to 80% in 20 mins. They collect their daughter from Uni (300 mile trip) and recharge at a service station whilst having a coffee each way.
They love it.
Just spent the last few days stress testing an I3 with the range extender.
First BMW in 15+ years i'd actually consider buying/leasing. Except the electric range is a bit marginal for my daily drive, an extra 20-30% and it'd be spot on. I really need a minimum of 180-200. We've found it to be nearer 140-150.
Only issue was the regen at zero pedal was very aggressive, took some getting used to (regen is bad for range, but good for city driving and driving feel), and the wind noise was very noticeable, but probably no worse than any other sit up and beg car. Just sounds worse with the lack of engine noise (and i understand the tyres are amongst the quietest on the market.)
Range extender was all but unnoticeable in city driving and couldn't hear it over the wind noise at highway speeds. Stood outside the car, it was a little obtrusive, and sounded odd as pitch/engine speed doesn't change in the same as a conventional car would.
Got a Tesla to do the same testing with next week, and a golf the week after and then a Chevy Volt. Unless it breaks down. Again.
I'd have a Tesla tomorrow, but we've nowhere to charge it at work or at home (our drive and garage are separate from our house, across someone else's land. The garage does not have enough pitched roof to put lots of solar panels on, and gets overshadowed anyway).
However I can see how this range anxiety could be a 'thing'.
Having had a Zoe for a nearly two months now we've got used to how far it will go, and - in general - the number of places you can recharge, so we've not had a problem at all.
Yesterday though I started planning how we'll visit family in Lincolnshire, and it all went out the window because they don't seem to have heard of rapid chargers over there. I think we'll be taking the other car, unfortunately...
Second charging lead on my Golf has failed in month 19 of use. £811 list price if it was out of the 3 year warranty (& a disincentive to getting a second one for leaving at work).
Bloody hel! How can a glorified jump lead cost the thick end of a grand?!? Is it made by Apple??
So buy one from an aftermarket EV lead company
[url= https://evconnectors.com/ev-plug-vw-volkswagen-e-golf-cable ]c'mon guys help yourselves a bit[/url]
Meh. The wife's wee fiat 500 is the thick end of 600 quid for an exhaust, that's just a bit of (shit quality) pipework.
Enjoying this thread, her next car will be electric for sure.
I've been on this forum long enough to know that you will never change your mind molgrips!
I will if you give me some science
Who are you kidding 🙄
I’ve had a tesla model S as a company vehicle for 18 months now with no issues. I charge 50% on the free network and 50% at home. Compared to the 12 monthly costs of my last vehicle (2.0ltr diesel XF sport brake) the tesla is 3k a year cheaper to run including servicing, tax, fuel, tyres, etc on 33k Miles a year, not including depreciation which is currently fixed at 3 years should I wish to part ex for a new one. Range anxiety was a worry but has not been an issue if you plan your journey in advance and the network is improving all the time. As a car it is as good as any equivalently costing vehicle I have driven and takes the bike wheels off in the boot or front wheel off with the seats down in the back. The company tax incentives were the the reason for the original purchase but I would not go back to an ICE now I have experienced this vehicle on a day to day basis
Kia Soul EV has arrived. Mixed feelings about it to be honest. Glad it's not our only car.
Maybe I will get used to the idea. GF loves it so far.
even at £3000 as you are entering into an unlimited rental contract on a second hand vehicle.
None of the contracts is unlimited. You sign up for as long as you want. I signed up for two years in the hope of there being something better than a Zoé 40 along by the time it runs out. The new owner will sign up for as many years as they want.
One advantage of leasing the battery is that the new owner doesn't have to worry about battery life as if capacity drops below 75% it will be replaced however old the car is. I reckon manufacturers are dropping the leasing idea because they have worked out that long term it's less profitable than selling the car with the battery, especially on low-milage vehicles. Would you buy an 8-year-old electric car with the prospect of the battery falling/failing and costing you more than the value of the car to replace?
Our Zoe was always intended to be our second car when it arrived last September. Since then, though, the "main" car has hardly moved, even though we've done quite a bit of running around the country to see family and friends.
It makes day to day journeys much easier and more pleasant. Longer journeys take a bit of getting used to, gradually growing confidence in how far it goes, use of chargers etcetera but we've had no problems; admittedly our situation is slightly different as with a toddler stops en route of longer than just a quick pee stop is what we would do in any car.
I suspect like renewables they’ll just reach the tipping point where they work out cheaper then everyone will get one
i’m interested in what happens when they do, i had a look at a on-street charging point in the street the other day, it was a massive box like a cable tv one. what happens when we all need a charge point?
i live in a flat (block of 14) parking is not in high demand outside and is not residents parking but how can you charge your car? the meter cupboard faces the street is about 12 ft from the kerb but are we really going to see rubber mats across pavements etc? what if your meter is at the back of a property or 10 floors up?
there needs to be some kind of app and a column you pull up out of the pavement and plug-in but thats a huge infrastructure commitment.
electric cars are needed more in cities and make the most sense for places where short journeys are the norm but i haven’t seen much about how we are supposed to charge them?
So actually enjoying the Soul now. Drove down the M1 - better than I thought on the motorway. The range actually increased which surprised me. Looking at 122 miles now. Regenerative braking mode on. The heating drops the estimation down quite a lot, clearly unlike a normal car there is no free heat coming from the engine.
Drove to sheffield to check out the city centre car park with free charging. Made sure we'd got enough charge to get there and back anyway.
Parked up at Carver street, there is one charge point with two cables. There was one free when we got there. Car park was only a quid an hour too.
Meadowhell has some free charging too but we didn't bother staying as they were all taken up and some of them broke. New Ikea has charge points. Not free. I'm not interested at shopping in either place but it's useful to know.
there needs to be some kind of app and a column you pull up out of the pavement and plug-in but thats a huge infrastructure commitment.
Not much compared with a drill ship, kms of tubing and platform infrastructure on the seabed which will be abondonned. A production platform, a fleet of tankers, 1000s of kms of transport, an oil refinery, a petrol/diesel road tanker on the roads, a petrol station occupying a large site... and you moan about a 70cmx50cm box on the pavement connected to existing infrastructure that can be supplied with electricity from renewable sources.
Not much compared with a drill ship, kms of tubing and platform infrastructure on the seabed which will be abondonned. A production platform, a fleet of tankers, 1000s of kms of transport, an oil refinery, a petrol/diesel road tanker on the roads, a petrol station occupying a large site… and you moan about a 70cmx50cm box on the pavement connected to existing infrastructure that can be supplied with electricity from renewable sources.
Chances are the majority of people are going to want to charge their vehicles overnight, so you'll need what, 1 charger for every 2-3 cars? Currently there are over 30 million cars in the UK. Are those 10 million charge points going to cost less than the additional oil infrastructure for passenger vehicles?
I'm not saying that EV's shouldn't happen because it requires investment in infrastructure, but I'm curious as to whether there are any actual figures for comparison.
Of those 30 million cars the first check to make is how many can be charged at people's homes or in their works' car parks.
A Zoé takes an hour to add 50% (which is using only a 22kw charger) so will occupy a charge point for an hour every 160km, a few days commuting for most people. I generally recharge when the battery is down to 35% which means that an hour on the public charger takes it up to 85%, the point at which charging starts to slow down, cost 2e. People won't leave them on charge longer than necessary because they'll still be paying while connnected. The police ticketed an ICE car on my local charge point - 135e and more importantly 3 points.
You are looking at a public charge point for every 50 cars at worst IMO.
My commute is 55 miles each way. No charging at work but I've got a drive so could charge at home. An electric car with a real range of 200 miles would suit me down to the ground. With 250 miles range it would even do my old weekly commute to Knutsford (175 miles). My current diesel has range for more than a week's driving so works well. My previous petrol Fiat Panda could do 4 days of commuting at a pinch, leading me to carry a can of petrol at all times having tried to stretch the range.
Next car will be electric (but the current car's only done 75,000 miles so that won't be for a while).
