I was on it last weekend, at East Fortune airshow. Never flew in it though.
The new Typhoon however, now there's a weapon, straight vert up and down, slow flyby, afterburners..... fantastic piece of kit, what a racket!! 😀
been inside one and seen them flying overhead many many times. Even viewed them taking off and landing from the old airport viewing platforms (before terrorism).
The sound was immense. I spent my whole childhood looking to the sky's when I heard their rumble overhead. This happended lots.
As much as I like and respect BA, I must admit that it was only (imho) their pride, that prevented them selling the whole fleet to Virgin - which in turn has prevented thousands of travellers and many thousands of onlookers experiencing Concorde first hand. It's a bit like the plane version of seeing an E type Jag on a sunny day 😀
Surely their should be a bit of give and take when it comes to preserving such a classic and amazing peice of potentially profit making engineering such as concorde. Shame but sometimes ( imho ) people maybe cannot see the bigger picture.
I was lucky enough to see Concorde land in Nairobi in the 80s. It had brought a load of multi millionaire's on a round the world trip. It left a few days later and we went back to see it leave, it was just incredible. I only ever saw it those two times.
And for the OP - referring to your remarks in your first post - the big planes don't need all the runway they use at LHR for take-off. They do derated take-offs at less than max engine power to preserve engine life.
So it was you I sat next to CM!!! 😉
Concorde didn't really give us anything, but the 747, the A380 and the rest have done.
What a disappointingly soulless comment.
The main reason (at the time) that Concorde services were restricted to a handful of destinations was that the yanks were pissy that their boeing copy was clearly never going to work. It was arguably more of a technological achievement to get 120 blokes in suits drinking champagne flying 60,000 ft above the earth at Mach 2.04 than it was to get two blokes in funny suits to the moon.
The future we now have thanks to the busses with wings that you mention is future-lite by comparison.
A friend got married under one at Manchester Airport a couple of years ago. We got to go on a tour afterwards so that was pretty cool.
You know Molgrips... I like you.
My gran only flew once in her entire life, but it was on concorde, quick trip to france and back. She said it was like a noisy bus and she didn't really understand why people bother. But then I suppose that's what comes of flying to a foreign country and never leaving the airport 😆
Squidlord - Member
the whole car shook and the noise was deafening, I kid you not - vicious power !!
...an awesome spectacle
Go and see the Vulcan at an airshow while you still can. Same engines. I doubt they can fly it at full chat anymore, but I had one go low over me when I was about 12. Had ringing ears and a stupid grin for days after that!
Same engines yes, but Concorde has reheat (or afterburners for our American friends) which makes it much louder!
I agree with zokes on this one. Concorde gave us something exciting and unusual. While I'm sure a lot of engineering went into an 747, it's just a big bus. It'll never make people feel special just by looking at it.
Big wings, moving nose, mahoosive engines. It doesn't matter that it was too noisy or cramped or cost too much. IT COULD DO MACH 2! It was *just* like seeing an E type or a DB5. The DB5 was an awfully shit car but it's been built with passion and style and soul. You'll probably never see one in real life, you'll certainly never drive one but look at the ****ing thing. It makes your groin move.
*that's* what's important, not the dull transfer of people from one side of the planet to the other.
In terms of engieering concorde was undoubtedly a greater achievement than the 747. In terms of impact on the lives of people the 747 delivered far more in practical terms. Phallic objects may well make your "groin move" but the "dull transfer of people from one side of the planet to the other" is of far more practical value.
The DB5 was an awfully shit car but it's been built with passion and style and soul. You'll probably never see one in real life, you'll certainly never drive one but look at the **** thing. It makes your groin move.
I know where one lives round here. Very nice it is to see and hear too. Alas, I suspect you're correct about me never driving it though 🙁
In terms of impact on the lives of people the 747 delivered far more in practical terms. Phallic objects may well make your "groin move" but the "dull transfer of people from one side of the planet to the other" is of far more practical value.
YAWN
We now aspire to get by, as opposed to aspiring to achieve. That's not progress, if anything, it's regress.
Oh go on then, I was lucky enough to fly on it twice. Second time I had a regular business seat, I got to JFK straight from a nightclub, had been up all night with a pal in NY. The nice BA lady told me there was a Concorde leaving at the same time, do I want a seat?
It was small and cramped and very 1970s true. Best thing was take-off, we did a long slow arc out over Long Island with an amazing view of Manhattan as the sun came up. Once out over the Atlantic the whole thing just tipped back (and I mean right back, so steep you wouldnt be able to stand up) and up it went.....72,000ft in no time. Tiny little windows so you couldnt see much but def see the curve of the Earth, and above us, pure black outer space. About 3hr 15min flight time I think?
Oh and they served us lobster and Johnie Walker Blue Label.
Sadly I never did. Was offered the switch once and stupidly turned it down due to family commitments. BA would often offer Saturday Concorde exchange for a business class Friday evening flight back from Kennedy as they were always booked out.
Lots of the senior people at the firm I unused to work at would fly it, they had to pay for it themselves but they thought the time saving was worth it and they could afford it. Yes it was cramped and loud but everyone loved "the rocket"
I watched the flyover in London when they were taken out of service, a day both of pride and sadness.
Johnie Walker Blue Label.
That's the first shit thing I've heard about the plane 😀
I was able to work on Concorde at BA Heathrow for my work experience week during school! Worked with Concorde Minor Engineers, best week ever! When we taxi'd it from T4 to the engineering workshop I was sat in the cockpit on the brakes! I nearly got a flight to NY but an engineer had to go due to an 'issue'.
I could not have asked for a better work experience. 
I heard a lot of stories about Concorde, I am not surprised it isn't flying anymore. It would be amazing to see it fly again tho.
We now aspire to get by, as opposed to aspiring to achieve.
You think that transporting a lot more people, far more efficiently, at lower cost, over longer distances is "getting by"?
You think that transporting a lot more people, far more efficiently, at lower cost, over longer distances is "getting by"?
I'd class it as the very definition of 'getting by', yes.
Then I'm afraid you don't really understand how engineering works.
We used to live in Fulham, when it came over into LHR we all used to stick our heads out the window and goggle at it, lot of pride in it.
Then I'm afraid you don't really understand how engineering works.
I understand perfectly. But I'll agree with you if you substitute 'engineering' for 'economics' in that sentence.
Economics is an intergral part of engineering. It's all about doing more, with less and the better you do it, the fewer people will notice.
and the better you do it, the fewer people will notice.
Sadly, many people have noticed it now takes more than twice as long to cross the Atlantic than it used to.
One thing that annoys me about not having Concorde any more is the time issue.
I spend far too long sitting in planes, flying around the place. Yes, I get a nice comfy seat, but to get to the East coast of the US for a Monday meeting means I have to give up my Sunday. Spend another night in a hotel, another night away from my family. Over the course of a year, Concorde would give me back whole days of time. Days that could be spent doing something far better than watching another rubbish film* and drinking chablis.
*Dunno why, but I [i]always[/i] seem to choose rubbish films to watch on flights.
CFH understands engineering
It was arguably more of a technological achievement to get 120 blokes in suits drinking champagne flying 60,000 ft above the earth at Mach 2.04 than it was to get two blokes in funny suits to the moon.
Were women not allowed on Concorde? I guess its retirement really does herald progress then.
I'll grant you that the fastest time to cross the atlantic has increased, however I doubt that the average time has changed much, especially as far more people can now afford to cross the Atlantic.
Used to live in Ealing, south facing garden with the flight path left to right looking down the garden. You could hear it coming WAY WAY before you could see it. Very noisy but amazing. Sad day when it stopped.
Been in one at Filton, never flown in one, but have sat in a Space Shuttle trainer when I had a VIP tour of mission control in Houston!
Were women not allowed on Concorde? I guess its retirement really does herald progress then.
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I'll grant you that the fastest time to cross the atlantic has lowered, however I doubt that the average time has changed much, especially as far more people can now afford to cross the Atlantic.
To CFH and many other frequent travellers, the average time has no bearing on their experience. The fact they're stuck on a bus for an extra four hours, often meaning having to stay an extra night or lose some of the weekend does have a significant negative bearing on their experience.
I very much doubt the existence or not of concorde has had any effect on the price of flying on a bus. Following that argument, Ryanair has done more for progress 😯
My wife and I went to New York on it in the early nineties - took 3hrs 26min to get there!
Phenomenal noise, great acceleration, but tiny cabin and windows.
A really sad day when it was withdrawn.
Lots of times, as my father flew them. Probably wasted the opportunity as a kid in realising how lucky I was. Jump seat take offs in the cockpit were cool though.
I would love to go back and do it again now I could appreciate it a bit more.
Your missing the point I trying to make. The 747 and aircraft like it has allowed the cost of air travel to fall. This has allowed more people to enjoy it's benefits and on that basis it has had more on an impact that Concorde.
Would business travellers still have been flying on Concorde had BA and Air France had to pay the actual price of the aircraft in the first place and charge people the actual cost of the flight rather than run it at a loss?
Jeremy Clarksons book 'I know You Got Soul' has a brilliant chapter all about Concorde. Well worth a wee read.
The 747 and aircraft like it has allowed the cost of air travel to fall.
I remain unconvinced that this is a good thing.
Would business travellers still have been flying on Concorde had BA and Air France had to pay the actual price of the aircraft in the first place and charge people the actual cost of the flight rather than run it at a loss?
Branson thought the market would bear it. BA and AF refused to sell the fleet to them.
The 747 and aircraft like it has allowed the cost of air travel to fall. This has allowed more people to enjoy it's benefits and on that basis it has had more on an impact that Concorde.
It's still driven by economics, rather than technological or engineering progress. It's taken >24 hours to get from the UK to Oz for the best part of half a century now. That it's not reduced in time over those 50 years is about as much evidence as you'll ever need that progress has not been made.
If you're measuring progress by the cost reductions in flight, then surely this bloke is the pinnacle: 😯
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Yeah, no doubt it is very useful indeed that people can fly en mass across the Atlantic in comfort at a reasonable price. But it's not thrilling or exciting or cool. It's just stuff.
It's like art. Technically a beautiful picture has very little intrinsic value, probably less than say, a room that's been painted. The painted room is far more useful and practical but it doesn't stir the soul. It doesn't make you feel alive or human. Obviously if you're not getting this then it's pointless me trying to explain it.
My wife has four times, each time was an business class upgrade, she was flying business a lot. Got a fair bit of Concorde memorabilia somewhere.
[i]The main reason (at the time) that Concorde services were restricted to a handful of destinations was that the yanks were pissy that their boeing copy was clearly never going to work[/i]
No, the main reason was the sonic boom tests that the US mil/FAA had done over Oklahoma in the 60's. It wasn't conducted that well, and while most people thought they could live with sonic booms, a sizeable minority complained. Bear in mind that the US (and maybe Concorde) would be overflying mainland US on scheduled services and believed the way forward in passenger flight was SST,it was important to know the public perception of regular sonic booms. And while mostly the public said OK, large enough numbers said uh-uh, no chance, and this being the US, that was the end of SST flight. The French and British pushed on regardless, and then were "surprised" when the US wouldn't allow FTS flights over US mainland 🙄
technologic marvel, without a doubt. It was also a nightmare to work on, it was massively expensive and complex to operate, with a dwindling supply of spares that meant that at some point it would have all had to come to and end.
samuri - MemberBut it's not thrilling or exciting or cool.
It is. Well, it was. But by our prowess we've made the exciting commonplace. Paradox of progress, we think it's impressive to fly someone round the world in a metal tube once but unimpressive to fly a million people around the world every day.
If you only valued something because it was scarce, it was never really that good- it's the rarity you're valuing not the thing itself.
If you only valued something because it was scarce, it was never really that good- it's the rarity you're valuing not the thing itself.
Cobblers
The value is the sex of the thing, not the scarecity. Not only does it look, sound and feel awesome but it was pushing the boundaries, setting the limit of human capability. 'look at us, we're ace!' Now we've done that, as you say, it's been downgraded into commonplace (transporting millions huge distances) but we're not doing it at Mach 2 or with a moving nose cone. No-one is banning our planes from their airspace because they smash windows and that's almost a sad thing.
I'll stop now though because I'm aware I'm starting to sound a bit Clarkson. 😉
That it's not reduced in time over those 50 years is about as much evidence as you'll ever need that progress has not been made.
No, it's evidence that it still takes 24 hours. If you think that progress hasn't been made then you have an exceptionally narrow set of parameters.
zokes - MemberCobblers
If we had a thousand concordes doing run of the mill flights, it'd lose the exclusivity/novelty people are mourning. And for that matter if we had one 747 those same people would relish flying by 747.
See also: A380.
This reminds me of spending summers in South Devon as a child and regularly hearing the sonic boom just after about 8pm I seem to remember as it went through the sound barrier somewhere off southern Ireland.
Also miss seeing and hearing it every day as it crossed over South Oxfordshire on it's way out at about 11:05 in the morning and 19:05 in the evening.
