Forum menu
I just cannot understand how or why you can claim to categorically know what is going on in deep space by applying the knowledge that we have gained here.. on this tiny insignificant speck in the corner.. it seems to me to be arrogant..
but it (applying knowledge we've gained down here) works. Not perfectly, but much, much, much, better than guessing.
and lots of what we think we understand about 'deep space' comes from looking at ... deep space.
what if, what if, but if you do it without knowledge or context, then you deserve to be dismissed
from a thread on a MTB forum about aliens..?
FFS
we're not trying to change the world here kids..
which I find a bit weird from a bunch that are making new discoveries all the time.. I would not be surprised if the scientific fraternity turned around in a couple of years and told us it's all made from neutrinos..
I would be very surprised personally.
Well over a hundred years of research from Rutherford, Maxwell through Bohr, Planck and Schrodinger and on and on through von Neumann, Pauli, Dirac to Feynman and the massive undertakings of exploring the nature of matter using currently the largest machine on the planet.
At each step of the way theories were proposed, questioned, tested, ridiculed and amended until they stood up to observations or experiments in the real world. Some steps in the process brought us closer to a better understanding of how the universe work at its most basic level. Others were blind alleys that led nowhere.
Due to this research I can say with pretty reasonable certainty* that the universe is not in fact all made from neutrinos.
Science doesn't know it all, its never claimed to and there are no absolutes. There is loads of stuff scientists are currently guessing at, quantum gravity, dark matter, dark energy etc. But the point is the scientific method does try to make sense of the universe not just give up because we might all be riding on the back of a giant turtle.
*(by pretty reasonable certainty I mean the same level of certainty that if I stepped off the edge of a 15 storey building I would be pulled to earth by gravity in a fashion that would be very detrimental to my continued existence, gravity still being a theory after all)
from a thread on a MTB forum about aliens..?FFS
we're not trying to change the world here kids..
If you think that then you can't complain about not being taken seriously here can you.
Yunki, you didn't annoy me, but I can understand why you annoyed others. As I've said it was poorly informed uncontextualized meaningless twaddle, but diverting nonetheless.
I haven't dismissed anything..
Really? Cos this all sounds rather like patronising dismissal to me:
that's an awfully arrogant assumption from a fat and terminally earthbound bag of water
LOL.. are you serious..?
don't be so daft.. 😆
ooooh.. aren't we flippin' brilliant.. 😆
wow.. just wow at the narrow mindedness..
are you guys for real..?
dey is fick like rock
here is this religious cult called spectroscopy
listen my little sunbeams.. roll over.. play dead.. let me tickle your tummies
silly billy
maths and physics.. con art invented by scraggly little toads who can't get laid in attempt to make themselves look clever..
osama bin labcoat
Science doesn't know it all, its never claimed to and there are no absolutes
my point exactly
I just cannot understand how or why you can claim to categorically know what is going on in deep space by applying the knowledge that we have gained here.. on this tiny insignificant speck in the corner.. it seems to me to be arrogant
Why do you keep calling us arrogant? It would be arrogant to claim we know everything [ no one is claiming this ]and stupid to claim we know nothing [ which seem nearer your position]. Scientists claim we know some stuff.
To use your argument that is like saying because we can rub sticks together and make fire in Dartmoor that does not mean you can do it in Cheshire or in Africa or Peru. This is the arrogance you talk of.
Here's one for you yunki:
[b]Adding two odd numbers (integers) together gives you an even number.[/b]
That simple statement is impossible to empirically test fully. There are an infinite number of integers, so however many numbers you try to test it against, you will still have effectively tested nothing of the whole.
Does that mean it is [i]"arrogant"[/i] to make that statement? Even though it holds for absolutely everything we know and accurately predicts results?
(obviously maths is a [i]"con art invented by scraggly little toads"[/i] - but hopefully you can still see the parallels here)
Did you know that Pluto was the first planet that was discovered though mathmatical predictions rather than actually looking at it through a telescope?
Apparently it was discovered by analysing perturbations of Uranus.
Which is interesting and funny at the same time.
Science is pretty clever if you ask me...but it doesn't know everything...if it did what would be the point in becomming a scientist.
Adding two odd numbers (integers) together gives you an even number.That simple statement is impossible to empirically test fully.
Take x and y, two odd integers.
By definition of being odd,
x = 2n+1
y = 2m+1 where n and m are integers.
x+y = 2n+1+2m+1 = 2(n+m+1) which, by definition, is even.
I believe you Graham, even though I haven't tested it. But, like, [i]what if[/i] in some other places there were integers that weren't odd or even? How can we be sure we know all the types of number there are...
peturbations of Uranus.Which is interesting and funny at the same time.
Smirk..
To use your argument that is like saying because we can rub sticks together and make fire in Dartmoor that does not mean you can do it in Cheshire or in Africa or Peru.
no.. it doesn't
we know what's in cheshire aned peru.. we were there last week..
it's like saying that because you can do it in dartmoor then you can do it in an imaginary place that is so far away that we can't even imagine it..
and we can only guess as to what is going to be there anyway..
there might be sticks and friction and oxygen.. but there might also be chocolate umbelical hornets with imaginary real biscuit fronds the length and breadth of pluto..
Take x and y, two odd integers.
See now you're just using [i]"supposition and guesswork and observing patterns"[/i] to come up with theories. That is so narrow minded. 🙂
But, like, what if in some other places there were integers that weren't odd or even? How can we be sure we know all the types of number there are...
Exactly dude. What if like, [i]somewhere[/i], numbers are like made of neutrinos and 1 plus 1 like equals 5 or some shit?
How would an alien even know what "one" is? What if it doesn't have a finger to count on...? Duuuuuuuuuuuudddeee..
there might be sticks and friction and oxygen.. but there might also be chocolate umbelical hornets with imaginary real biscuit fronds the length and breadth of pluto..
That's my holidays sorted then.
Hungry?but there might also be chocolate umbelical hornets with imaginary real biscuit fronds the length and breadth of pluto.
anyway this is bollocks, if you thought like this you wouldn't be able to move for for of all the unknowns. For all we know you are living with an alien, they could be busy draining your brain as we speak, without you knowing seeing or feeling it? But our observations see patterns and allow us to function normally because we are mostly convinced that everything is safe and ok. Get a grip yunki, wild unprovable fantasies are essentially pointless and actually quite dull. You think you are being clever and all free spirited but it's starting to be a bit of stinky trolling rhetoric.
Not sure if we're talking about the likelyhood of certain discoveries being made in completely distinct geographical regions...people are using a convoluted way of expressing themselves in this thread.
But it's often interested me that things like archery were 'invented' by cultures across the world and couldn't have learnt from each other. Chinese and Native Americans for example...unless they had some kind of exchange programme going on.
machamish, occams razor suggest that the aliens gave both the chinese and the indians the technology to make bows n arrows.
[img] 
[/img]
Get a grip yunki, wild unprovable fantasies are essentially pointless and actually quite dull. You think you are being clever and all free spirited but it's starting to be a bit of stinky trolling rhetoric.
ok.. I'm not going to say this again.. because you doss ****s are just nae taking it in..
I am just asking you to perhaps drop all the hysterical yunki baiting for a second and admit that you guys have been ****ing arseholes for the entirity of this thread..
for the very last time.. I just like to consider that there are infinite possibilities and that space may yet hold new discoveries for us.. I'm gobsmacked that some of you find this view so offensive
any more or less than that is bollocks that you've added yourself and blamed on me
infantile pricks..
right.. I'm orf for a lovely bike ride to the physio to get my knee sorted..
au revoir science monkeys.. you have been utterly unbearable for the last 12 hours
x
any more or less than that is bollocks that you've added yourself and blamed on me
Hmm.. I quoted you directly but you strangely ignored it. How odd.
right.. I'm orf for a lovely bike ride to the physio to get my knee sorted..
Cheerio. Be careful not to use any [i]science[/i] on your way there.
I like science.. and scientists.. where have I said that I don't..?
some of you lot are prize ****ing lemons however.. 😀
well.. that's my quarterly foray into big hitting cock-nockery.. my curiosity is well and truly satisfied.. I part this thread traumatised..
Graham.. it's been a complete chore.. pat yourself soundly on the back.. I am broken
I am just asking you to perhaps drop all the hysterical yunki baiting for a second and admit that you guys have been **** arseholes for the entirity of this thread..
You're the one being the arsehole dude - try to take a step back then re-read this thread, especially all the bits GrahamS quoted.
infantile pricks..
Nice.
I like science.. and scientists.. where have I said that I don't..?
I'd say the bits where you dismissed all chemistry, said spectroscopy was a religious cult, and described maths and physics as a [i]"con art invented by scraggly little toads who can't get laid".[/i]
Somewhere around there.
scraggly blah blah blah
ok.. I take that back.. it was a tongue in cheek comment, a bit of banter.. I'm not 12 for christs sakes.. but who ****ing cares..
no grum.. I have been faced with deliberate obtuseness in every response and it's worn me down..
sorry.. I'm not feeling very nice at all after that
graham - I didn't realise that you took yourself so seriously old chap.. sorry to offend.. never my intention
I think there is a higher probability of alien life than a omnipotent god...
I didn't realise that you took yourself so seriously old chap.. sorry to offend..
I don't and you didn't. (I like to think I conveyed this somewhere amongst my smilies, memes and general mickey-taking).
I part this thread traumatised..
Hope you recover from all the "cock-nockery" and nasty names that the "arsehole" "infantile prick" "science monkeys" called you. Well done for not stooping to that level yourself.
for the very last time.. I just like to consider that there are infinite possibilities and that space may yet hold new discoveries for us.. I'm gobsmacked that some of you find this view so offensive
Everybody knows this. There's not a single person on this thread that's argued otherwise, and I don't think anyone is even remotely offended by the idea.
But people might have been offended- or maybe more accurately frustrated- by your claims that scientists are narrow-minded and arrogant because they prefer to work within the framework of what we [i]do[/i] know or have sound grounds to suspect rather than indulging any fancy that crosses their minds. It's just a waste of time.
I think there is a higher probability of alien life than a omnipotent god...
There is an interesting point here: [i]certain-minded people[/i] dismiss talk of extra-terrestrials as fantasy, but happily worship an extra-terrestrial that they believe created the entire universe. 😕
The logic of that confuses me.
I'm sorry that some of you have misunderstood me.. and I'm sorry for colourful language.. and I'm sorry that I appear to have misrepresented myself
the arrogance thing seems to be the sticking point..
get over it.. we'll have to agree to disagree..
I didn't realise that science types were so insecure about their profession.. I've always thought science to be a pretty solid foundation and have always had utmost faith in it..
by the level of defensiveness I've encountered here I'm starting to doubt the wisdom of my judgement
When you apologise you need to be contrite not just continue to attack people.
I cant even be arsed that is just childish and petty. sadly this pretty much sums up how you have handled this entire thread but with more sweary insults.
🙄
haven’t read through 6 pages of arguing, so not sure if this has been posted yet:
But people might have been offended- or maybe more accurately frustrated- by your claims that scientists are narrow-minded and arrogant because they prefer to work within the framework of what we do know or have sound grounds to suspect rather than indulging any fancy that crosses their minds. It's just a waste of time.
Oh god Mr Salmon, this is so sensible and succint, I've just had to change my pants. Chapaeu.
Laz, now you are here surely you can use your immense and rad problem solving powers to end this.. 😆
head banging against a wall..
someone asserted that we know all there is to know about the elements present in the universe..
I thought this was arrogant and bad science
a hundred screaming demons descend on me to call me a hippie and delusional and an advocate of indulging fanciful notions.. I am none of these things and I was dismayed that scientists (in the loosest sense of the word) would be so quick to defend the original statement and so vigorously and obtusely..
I'm not a very even tempered person.. far from it
I got quite upset and lost the plot.. some of you deserve an apology.. some of you don't
Garry Lager.. you are a razor of a troll.. I'm having a breakdown.. my wife has left me, my kids are screaming neglect and I'm driving to my pigging appointment now..
chapeaux
edit: I have learned that fanciful notions have a time and a place
someone asserted that we know all there is to know about the elements present in the universe..
I thought this was arrogant and bad science
Actually Garry_Lager said: [i]"chemically there's only one periodic table in the universe"[/i]
which may be a bold statement, but is not the same thing as saying "we know all there is to know". I think that may be your misconception.
He also said: [i]"carbon's the only game in town for prospective lifeforms"[/i] which several people rightly corrected him on.
what a humdinger of a misconception 😯
who would have thought that such a tiny teeny misunderstanding could lead to so much buffoonery.. 😳
such tragic bellendery
Now how's that second coming thread progressing..? I feel my input would be invaluable.. 8)
Laz, now you are here surely you can use your immense and rad problem solving powers to end this..
OK, I'll make a statement on the matter:
There have been or are currently intelligent life forms in existance somewhere other than earth. We (humans, and I speak for all of them) don't know about it yet.
THREAD CLOSED
Thread still open.
Foo Fighters anyone?
You know, saying "thread closed" doesn't actually close the thread, it just makes you sound silly and implies that you can't really back up what you're saying. Even if you put it in capital letters and press the keys really hard.
Foo Fighters anyone?
Definitely exist:
They've come for our sun!
😀
I haven't read the whole of this thread, as a lot of it looked like bitching to me. 😆
[url= http://www.****/sciencetech/article-2134916/The-Icarus-spacecraft-Mystery-Nasa-sun-watching-satellite-captures-UFO-surfing-hellish-surface-sun.html ]Anyways, NASA Satelite picked up a UFO near the sun yesterday..[/url]
[url= http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/04/what-the-hell-is-this-incredible-alien-spaceship-looking-thing-caught-on-camera-circling-the-sun-by-nasa/ ]Of course its real, its in the Daily Mail. [/url] 😉
I tend to the view there 'must be' other life forms out there, but often wonder that if they did turf up here they would be mad to make contact if they didn't have weapons superior to our own.
I also wonder what would have happened to science had we evolved with three digits instead of ten, how different would our measurement perceptions be.
I also wonder if we had developed on say Mars, wether a light year would be 'faster' than our light year.
I can't help but notice the power of circles, everything seems to be round, orbits, planets, suns, maybe the Universe is also and maybe it is continuous.
Then I think about weight and wonder how gravity would be measured on a much bigger planet and wether coming from a big place, aliens would be able to bound about here and would they need full suspension or be content with hard tails.
Then I consider one of the only really known truths which is the Electro Magnetic Spectrum and recall in my youth and school physics Light being explained to me as particles when I believed it to be a wavelength and I turned out to be right. So that perception only came about in the last fifty or so years.
My point being we do know relatively little, what we do know is constantly changing and that knowledge is only based on earthly perceptions. There is no time per se, even our measurement systems (google parsecs) are crude and earth based, getting back to the Electro Magnetic Spectrum, what we view as visible light, even here other life forms view differently, so it is highly likely that Aliens from bigger or small planets might view things using other parts of that spectrum and we may not be even able to view them with our perception.
I even consider consciousness (gonna get deep here) tunes into this spectrum at different wave lengths, how else could we explain some natural occurences of anticipation of future events, wether by animals or even those we might refer to as gifted or mediums.
One could go as far as to suggest consciousness itself might be transferable, who knows maybe it's the answer to the eternal question of what is it all about, so maybe our own consciusness becomes an alien elsewhere once it's done here...
Only one way to find out, but it is an interesting discussion.
Allow me to paraphrase:
derekrides - MemberDuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.......
😉