[Closed] Anyone believe in UFO's?

There is no time per se, even our measurement systems (google parsecs) are crude and earth based,

You should take your own advice, parsecs are a measurement of distance not time (despite what Han Solo would have you believe). (-:

A couple of proper answers from my limited knowledge (I ain't no scientist):

f they did turf up here they would be mad to make contact if they didn't have weapons superior to our own.

If anything deliberately makes it this far then they have technology vastly superior to anything we have.

I also wonder what would have happened to science had we evolved with three digits instead of ten

Erm... not much. You can count in pretty much any base you like:
00.. 01..02.. 03.. 10.. 11.. 12.. 13.. 20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_numeral_system

It would be a bit odd having two fingers on one hand and one on the other. Wouldn't alter my typing skills much though.

I also wonder if we had developed on say Mars, wether a light year would be 'faster' than our light year.

A light year is a measure of distance, not speed, so it can't be "faster".

A year on Mars is 686.98 Earth days. So yes a "light year" is a much greater distance if you are using Martian years.

I can't help but notice the power of circles, everything seems to be round

Minimum surface area for maximum volume innit?

wether coming from a big place, aliens would be able to bound about here

Yep - same as us going to the moon.

recall in my youth and school physics Light being explained to me as particles when I believed it to be a wavelength and I turned out to be right. So that perception only came about in the last fifty or so years.

Erm.. sounds like they didn't explain it very well.
Did you ever do the double-slit experiments at school (circa 1803):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

There is no time per se

Mmmm... I'm pretty sure there is.

even our measurement systems (google parsecs) are crude and earth based

That's just a scale. As someone said earlier: just because a "milligram" is scale invented on Earth doesn't mean there is no weight/mass.

it is highly likely that Aliens from bigger or small planets might view things using other parts of that spectrum and we may not be even able to view them with our perception.

Quite possible - but we can detect a very large range of the spectrum.
We can see wavelengths from 400 nm to 700 nm with our eyes.
But we can detect a huge range, like 10^-15m up to 10^8m

three digits = three fingers.... not numerical digits...

three digits = three fingers.... not numerical digits...

Yep got that (hence the typing quip).

We count in base 10 cos we've mainly* got 10 fingers see.
Seems reasonable to assume that if we had 3 fingers we might instead use base 3 or 4.

(* obviously the worldwide average is a bit lower than that)

three digits = three fingers.... not numerical digits...

Where do you think decimal comes from?

In the shower I once randomly sketched out a set of glyphs that could be used in a base-5 counting system with the constraints that numbers could be written as a single continuous block and easily etched with a stonemason's chisel.

My wife thought I was quite mental. 😀

Three digits per arm, er could even be three arms.

But my point, the decimal system does it not come from our ten fingers then the next,

So if three were the multiple then 6 then 9 then it would start over ..

Then would there be eight bits in a byte.

Would their music have 9 beats in a bar?

I'm trying to illustrate in that crude post that our givens aint givens at all and that aliens could be a whole other thing that would be awkward to sya the least to see and communicate with, a bit like the earth worm spoken of earlier.

Clearly I'm no scientist, I'm interested, but not sufficiently to be governed by the discipline of proof, I just like to speculate.

The point about Mars was the difference in length of the year.

The point about Parsecs wasn't time related, a clumsy sentence, I meant as I recall it's a triangulation based from earth, how can that be considered a measure for 'universal distance measure' and distance has a relation to time if we are to travel. It's as obscure as Miles are to Continentals.
So given my Martian length of a year, then maybe it is possible to travel faster than light. If the martians happened to measure the speed of light in the same method.

And anyway, yoda has 3 digits and he's a Jedi master.

GrahamS - Member

Erm.. sounds like they didn't explain it very well.
Did you ever do the double-slit experiments at school (circa 1803):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

No, and that looks fascinating and I shall consider it tonight.

I went to school in the early sixties and it was particles and straight lines with light through prism experiments.
I reasoned that was improbable since light emanating from a single source would eventually diverge and there would have to be gaps, therefore it must be like waves as from a stone dropped in a pond, radio wave like, it follows that like a radio wave it must expand in a bubble. I don't think quantum physics had reached Grammar school physics at that point ([i]and ironically I've never gotten on with physics teachers, they tend to be cocks.[/i])

And there was the fact you couldn't actually 'see' light, Only what it touches, so the whole photon particle thing I wasn't convinced by as you can't 'see' a light stream from the side.

Anyway, I shall read that thing tonight wether it will convince me or not....

I could well be getting trolled here, but sharing knowledge is always good so:

But my point, the decimal system does it not come from our ten fingers then the next,
So if three were the multiple then 6 then 9 then it would start over ..

Yep so 3 fingers (in total) might mean they use a base-3 (aka ternary) number system.

Instead of the thousands, hundreds, tens and units "columns" of a decimal system (which equate to 10^3, 10^2, 10^1 and 10^0) where each column can be 0 to 9, a base-3 system has columns based on powers of 3 (3^3, 3^2, 3^1, 3^0) where each column can be 0 to 2.

So counting up to the equivalent of decimal 20 in that system would look like this:
1, 2, 10, 11, 12, 20, 21, 22, 100, 101, 102, 110, 111, 112, 120, 121, 122, 200, 201, 202

None of that changes any maths - only the representation of the numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_numeral_system

Then would there be eight bits in a byte.

Quite possibly. It isn't something determined by our decimal system, since computers count in binary (base-2).
And it is a pretty arbitrary number: early systems used 4 or 6 bits in a byte. The adoption of 8 bits was due to the use of the ASCII standard for encoding letters and numbers, which uses 7 bits plus 1 for a parity check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII

I'm trying to illustrate in that crude post that our givens aint givens at all

Ah but you've shown many of them are. Maths is a great example of this. If you have 5 things and take away 2 of them then you are left with 3. This is fundamentally true regardless of how your civilisation actually represent the numbers.

The point about Parsecs ... I recall it's a triangulation based from earth, how can that be considered a measure for 'universal distance measure'

Same as above really. Distance exists. It doesn't really matter what names your civilisation give to its scales.

A 'universal distance measure' doesn't mean that when/if we ever meet aliens they'll somehow know what we mean when we say "parsec" - though if they have come to our solar system then it would be a fairly simple thing to explain!

So given my Martian length of a year, then maybe it is possible to travel faster than light. If the martians happened to measure the speed of light in the same method.

Erm no. The speed of light is unaltered. All that happens is a Martian's light year is a considerably longer distance than an Earthling light year becauses they are two entirely different things - leading to all kinds of hilarious confusion at Interplanetary Earthling/Martian Astronomy Conventions.

There is substantial evidence from all periods of history to prove that there are races of being far in advance of our technological level.

Even if that was not the case, there is also the fact that on this world alone in the past few million years at least 3 different humanoid species have evolved, cromagnon , neanderthal and us.

Any logical person would conclude from this fact that we or beings very similar to us are a product of natural evolution when the appropriate planetary / biosphere conditions occur.

I would think that this world being as old as it is has probably birthed several very ancient races, who would see it as sacred!

Unlike the parasites that now defile it!

There is substantial evidence from all periods of history to prove that there are races of being far in advance of our technological level.

Go on, tell us more.

Has this been done yet?:

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_(novel) ]Contact[/url]

Top bit of Sci-fi and not a bad film either. The film has a great twist in the tail but is totally trumped by the twist in the book.

Sagan didn't die. The mothership came for him...

Best if you research it for yourself, ancient cave paintings of ufo's, the sumerian texts, any number of sources really.

I'm sure if you really want to learn the truth you will be able to find it! or even better just watch TV and you will know everything you'll ever need too 😉

This guy ran the british governments UFO investigation project.
He's gone from being a complete sceptic to a firm believer, how many documents and witness's do you think he has had access too?

http://www.nickpope.net/

Any logical person would conclude from this fact that we or beings very similar to us are a product of natural evolution when the appropriate planetary / biosphere conditions occur.

How do figure that? The dinosaurs ruled the planet for a fair while and I don't think they looked much like us.

The "pinnacle" of evolution this planet might be a bipedal hairless monkey, but that doesn't mean it would work out that way on any planet suitable for life.

I'll jump in without having read the full thread.

I have seen UFOs and am inclined to believe they may be some sort of secret weapons system as opposed to anything from distant planets. I have a great video called "The Secret Nasa Transmissions" which show a lot of these from the actual shuttles.

In terms of do alien life forms exist in other worlds, yes I do believe that is the case, but then from a shamanic perspective you can go into this in terms of other dimensions of reality which is a little off topic.

One thing I am looking out for is a faked alien attack, possibly during the Olympics so that the powers that be can really lock us down. But hey, who knows what is going to happen during these Olympics ay?

GrahamS - Member
I could well be getting trolled here, but sharing knowledge is always good so:

You're not getting trolled, but you are missing the point, your number sequencing is off as well, they (3+3) fingered aliens would 'teen' their units at 6 if they have two arms, or 9 if they had three, but it's all hypothetical, I'm simply trying to point out the arrogance of a ten fingered society in assuming their 'science' is correct over all others.

I've had time to look at that light explanation but it still doesn't explain how light cannot be viewed 'side on' to the stream of light 'particles', nor how electrons can generate 'particles' when they have no mass.

We don't really know that much about the dinosaurs though do we, for all we know what we've found are the remains of safari parks and that era was populated by a reptilian species.

The bottom line is that evolution is a natural process and sooner or later beings like us will evolve, some of which will have cilisations millions if not billions of years old.

How many stars are there again is forget

Time/gravity is only a factor in terms of travel if you do not know the correct electro magnetic frequency to displace it

nor how electrons can generate 'particles' when they have no mass.

electrons have mass.

your number sequencing is off as well

It is correct for 3 fingers in total, as I stated, which is also what you originally said: [i]what would have happened to science had we evolved with three digits instead of ten[/i]

Yes if they had six fingers then the sequence would look like ... 4, 5, 10, 11..

I'm simply trying to point out the arrogance of a ten fingered society in assuming their 'science' is correct over all others.

But what you are actually ably demonstrating is that maths is a universal regardless of how many fingers you have.
No arrogance required. That 'science' remains correct if you call your number "five" or "Geoff"

still doesn't explain how light cannot be viewed 'side on' to the stream of light 'particles'

I have no idea why you think photons mean it should be. Explain??

Perhaps this may help? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

Or try this explanation:

Thanks for the info/link kaesae.
I'm not convinced that the strength of it qualifies as "substantial evidence that proves those theories", but it certainly adds to the picture and makes interesting reading.

Wow. I missed happy hour.

Best if you research it for yourself

No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. You don't get to make controversial statements and then when reasonably asked to elaborate go "oh, look it up." You need to either substantiate your claims or have them dismissed.

for all we know what we've found are the remains of safari parks and that era was populated by a reptilian species who left no evidence of their existence except for their safari parks

I'm simply trying to point out the arrogance of a ten fingered society in assuming their 'science' is correct over all others.

The speed of light in a vacuum is the speed of light, absolute zero is absolute zero. having nothing is zero, Some things are absolutes and we have found a few of them. It is not arrogant to know this. It would be arrogance to think we knew them all

As a pointless aside there are some things we know that we cannot prove such as every even number greater than 2 can be expressed as the sum of two primes. I am not sur ethis is arrogance either but it is interesting*.
* life may be non carbon base for example.
** ok it probably is not interesting

apologies in advance (haven't read the rest of this thread 😳

i saw something pretty strange back in the mid/late 90's (along with a friend who was a passenger in my car).
it was night time (cloudy as no stars in the sky).
we were coming back from bath (to drop my friend off in trowbridge).
anyhoo i was driving up a road called sally in the woods (you can see the whole of bath on your right as you are driving back to bradford on avon).
anyways my friend suddenly said to me "what is that!?"
i looked to my right and up in the sky was a white light.
"it's a helicopter flood light" i thought to myself
but it was spherical/white and perfectly motionless in the sky.
well it was for around 10 seconds when without warning,no sound it just shot off at high speed.
not gradually build up to a high speed, just instantaneously shot off 😯 😮
i obviously cannot say that it was an alien craft,but it certainly wasn't anything ordinary [img] ?1292867693[/img]

Could it have been ball lightning raceface?

Say hello to ALH84001, a 4.5 billion year-old lump of rock from Mars that fell to Earth.

[img] [/img]

It contains embedded magnetite crystals in formations of carbonates that are characteristic of aquatic magnetotactic bacteria that existed on Earth 3.5 billion years ago. Since the rock fell to Earth "recently", it follows that the bacteria lived and died on Mars.

This is not 100% conclusive without going to Mars and observing the formations in-situ. But it is 99% conclusive that this bacteria was living on Mars about the same time as similar bacteria was living on Earth.

There was life on Mars.

How did it fall ?

i looked to my right and up in the sky was a white light.
"it's a helicopter flood light" i thought to myself
but it was spherical/white and perfectly motionless in the sky.
well it was for around 10 seconds when without warning,no sound it just shot off at high speed.
not gradually build up to a high speed, just instantaneously shot off

almost exactly the same as something i observed (along with my sister) around 80-81 in the south east, there was a story in the local paper that week about somebody who said they were visited by a UFO at a golf course which was roughly where we thought the 'thing' was (it looked as if it was about 1 mile away). not saying i believe in ufo's but i definitely witnessed something out of the ordinary.

Sorry Buzz but referencing that New Scientist article linked to earlier, it does not appear to be quite that clear cut:

Careful analysis revealed that the rock contained organic molecules and tiny specs of the mineral magnetite, sometimes found in Earth bacteria. Under the electron microscope, NASA researchers also claimed to have spotted signs of "nanobacteria".

But since then much of the evidence has been challenged. Other experts have suggested that the particles of magnetite were not so similar to those found in bacteria after all, and that contaminants from Earth are the source of the organic molecules. A 2003 study also showed how crystals that resemble nanobacteria could be grown in the laboratory by chemical processes.

-- http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9943-top-10-controversial-pieces-of-evidence-for-extraterrestrial-life.html?full=true

But it is still quite compelling:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/403099main_GCA_2009_final_corrected.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hills_84001

Sorry there cougar, but you're wrong.
Kaesae has made some forthright statements, and I did ask for elaboration.
But , fair enough, that was forthcoming;
As well as the advice that its "best if you research it yourself".
I'm happy to accept that he's right there. That's part of scientific enquiry. Do you own research, think for yourself, don't expect everything handed to you on a plate.
Whilst the links and information are interesting and deserve further thought and enquiry, as I said above, I don't yet believe that the statements were proved conclusively.
However, that does not mean you or I get to dismiss them outright.
This isn't an inquisition, its a chat forum. 😉

How did it fall ?

Downwards.

This isn't an inquisition, its a chat forum

Who's side are you on? (-:

I wholeheartedly approve of 'do your own research', you're quite right. However, if you're going to state something as fact, you have to cite your sources. All credible texts have a bibliography for this reason. Hell, even Wikipedia mandates it. You don't see "[1] - look it up."

Do you own research, think for yourself, don't expect everything handed to you on a plate.

Downwards.

It fell off Mars "downwards" ?

I had assumed that it needed to go upwards. Do lots of rocks fall off Mars then ?

It may have left Mars going up, but it was definitely going down by the time it got here 😉

There is no up, nor down in space, just outwards and inwards - I think.

Sorry. My wording was too harsh. It (the inquisition comment) was meant tongue in cheek, but tone can be hard to convey in text,even with smileys. no offence intended.
My point was I am happy to listen to ideas. And don't need to dismiss them just because they haven't been proved conclusively.
I wasn't expecting 100% proof when I questioned this above. Its a chat forum about belief in UFOs, there will be theories that differ from the mainstream. Just by the nature of the subject I believe you have to be ready to accept partial evidence, probabillities and possibilities. Or at least be open to the possibillity that we can't all share the same body of knowlege and understanding. Even more so when the talk is of the history of 3000 years. For me, there's a massive grey area in this subject, and very little black and white. Even common theories like Drake give vastly different results depending on open assuptions.
For me, a thread subject like this is more about sharing ideas than coming to a conclusion.

It may have left Mars going up

Someone threw it ?

From the proposed timeline in the NASA article ernie:

16 million years ago, a large meteorite struck Mars, dislodging a large chunk of this rock and ejecting it into space. (Based on the cosmic ray exposure age of the meteorite)

Well I'll be. They can't tell what the weather will be this time next week but they know what happened on planet Mars 16 million years ago - what hit what and where it ended up. That's amazing.

You're a teacher right? I bet you are, only the sort of low grade teachers there are around these days can be so arrogant and closed minded to think that.. What's your subject? tell me it's not physics purrlease.

Then read the entire thread before coming in and spouting meaningless googled drivel

FWIW I have no idea why you got banned or why you think it was me what done it. I bear no grudge even if you do and you choose to vent it at any given opportunity.

"nanobacteria".

Yeah it's not clear cut for sure. The magnetite itself is not that strong evidence for organic origin but it's collocation with carbonates that is difficult to explain away apparently.

Then there is the methane abundance problem

And the re evaluation of the Viking experiment

And certainty that mars was wet planet in its geological history which means it had a substantial temperate atmosphere.

And the abundance of water ice under the dust

My wording was too harsh.

No, it wasn't.

You're right that it's hard to put tongues in cheeks when keyboards have neither of these things. I try to assume that people are being light-hearted and friendly when they type, and tend to assume that people think the same of me. Sadly, the latter assumption has bitten me in the arse a lot more than the former.

What I'm saying is, no offence taken. I appreciate the apology but you've nothing to apologise for.

They can't tell what the weather will be this time next week but they know what happened on planet Mars 16 million years ago

I expect it's a lot easier to reliably extrapolate backwards than forwards.

I expect it's a lot easier to reliably extrapolate backwards than forwards.

Obviously ! 🙂

derekrides - it is a sign that you are beaten if you jsut insult JY, he has been patiently batting off your objections and gently trying to lead you to the light. Perhps the reason why you are not a scientisit or seem to want to learn anythign about science is that you just don't like it.

[b]Awards in this thread so far:[/b]

GrahamS, junky and cougar for admirably battling away whilst maintaining their tempers, some erudite and smart posts.

MrSalmon for being the threads version of John Steinbeck.

kayak23 for being the king of irony and sarcasm (the book joke at the beginning)

Bwaarp for using science like a club and beating the crap out of anyone who disagrees, he never had a temper to lose. A man after my own heart. When the patient teachers above die of boredom from bangign their heads against a brick wall science will wheel out their champion..

yunki and derekrides for getting all po-mo on our asses.

All get tea and medals on the lawn and a [b]spitfire flypast[/b].

mrsmith and raceface do you guys know about Iridium flares? I was very nearly convinced that UFO's exist when I saw one of these a few years ago.
Now I can predict them and make my ignorant friends think I am some kind of god.. [url= http://www.heavens-above.com/?lat=50.72673&lng=-3.51202&loc=Unspecified&alt=0&tz=CET ]linky[/url]

JY has his own deep seated psychological problems

Well in that case you better let him deal with them, whilst you concentrate on dealing with yours.