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A mate of mine is 50 and ran his first sub-20 min 5k two nights ago:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1339352035
He only started running last August!
But:
- Very fit cyclist
- Some downhill in this, probably 100mtrs total
- 6ft and a quite skinny 12st 4lbs or so
Doesn't quite answer your question but I would have thought it was possible to replicate at a parkrun. No road crossings for a start!
It can be done. I'm 55 and have a Parkrun PB of 19.17.
Choose a fast course. Draft people. Take shortest possible racing lines. Learn to suffer. Believe in yourself. Good luck with it.
All that Fell running pays off 😀
I was going to post up an age-grade calculator, but am slow to the thread, so no need!
73% is what you need for your age, and if you look at a fairly fast and flat Parkrun such as Bushy, out of 940 runners last week, 79 had an age-grade score of 73 or over, and 67 were unknown, so just over 9% were faster than you are aiming for using that method.
Depending on your running history, going below 20 may or may not be easy. If you're nice and lean, already running 100+ miles a week and have been for years, you may have hit your biological/physiological potential, so it's not going to happen. However, if you're a relative newcomer, could afford to lose a few kilos, and are willing to work at it, I'd say you probably should be able to. From your first post, I'd say you are more in the latter camp (although I've no idea about your weight), but don't go balls-deep too quickly, gradually build on the distance and speed work, and you should see significant improvements come.
Also, choose your venue carefully, my PB at Tooting (flat, mainly tarmac) is nearly 2 minutes quicker than Alice Holt (gravel, undulating) so you may already have some gains to be made with no extra effort!
Another thing is how close to killing yourself were you when you did 25 minutes? If you weren't close to blacking-out or puking at the end, you almost certainly could have gone quicker!
Plenty of online advice about training, I'm not going to profess to prescribe anything as I'm not qualified to do so, apart from being a semi-respectable runner.
Let us know how you get on 🙂
Cheers, Rich
surfer - aye, maybe. It's much more fun than Parkrun, that's for sure! 😀
A person [s]50 year old[/s] [s]man[/s] pushing for a running time target to me = injury
Get a running technique coach. MY PB 18.55 but I would want a 17.30 if I was prioritising flat running and I will go for coaching. All the training programmes / tips here are what you need to improve but injury is a massive problem in running.
My mate used this guy and improved a minute to a 38.58 10k
https://www.runningreborn.co.uk/
I started out at about 24 mins, and then whittled away at it, as mentioned above, by upping my running and intensity of running.
Eventually got it down to 19.50 - but managed to really screw my ankle over time...so just be careful. I had an underlying bone spur which really aggravated the achilles.
Really needs an op now if I am to get back to "serious" running. 🙁
@ The Teaboy
By an Athersmith? I've raced against them and they're quick!
Not sure what an Athersmith is? I think the chap was USAF. It was quite disheartening seeing him finish just as I started my second lap. (My best 5k was 25:48)
surfer - aye, maybe. It's much more fun than Parkrun, that's for sure!
I enjoyed you race when I did it a few years ago although I remember getting attacked by Jack Russell which I gave a friendly tap with my foot in defence only for the owner to attack me with its lead 😯
Interesting thread. I started distance running back in 2016 when I moved over here to Manchester. Ran my first Parkrun at around 23 minutes or so. Got it down to around the mid late 20's when I trained for my first marathon then. The following year when training for Belfast I got my 5k PB of 19.25. Came from more miles, including XC over winter, and core/strength training. Also knocked 30 minutes of my marathon time on a much hillier course. Speed and strength work is your friend for the shorter distances.
One of my Parkrun goals is sub-17 while pushing a buggy 🙂
Need to knock off 44 seconds, switching from Tooting to Dulwich would probably help - all tarmac and no corners 😀
Cheers, Rich
I think under 20 is born runner type times.
That's a convenient excuse not to try. I think under 20 is 'willing to put a bit of effort in' type times.
I'm 53 next week, can still run sub-40 minute 10k but I rarely run 'competitively' because if I attempt any block of serious training I usually end up with a niggly injuries - I generally only run 1-2 times a week. My marathon PB is 2:56 and would love to give it another go as I managed a sub-60 minute 10 miler not too long ago. Running on and off since my teens, since I'm lucky that I've maintained my joint and tendon strength and have a fairly neutral gait, but I need well-cushioned shoes if I'm not to suffer afterwards. To develop leg speed I use a treadmill at 1-2% incline which is far less harsh on the legs - scares the bejesus out of some other gym users when the oldest guy there is running at over 16kph - but I build the speed up slowly rather than simply banging it to the max. Developing a higher cadence and shorter stride is something I wished I'd learnt to do earlier.
I'd say most healthy middle-aged men should get to 20 mins on a flat fast course. Note that a lot of park run courses are not very quick, I have only twice gone under 21 on one of my occasional courses (never sub-20) and won it one of those times. Regular running is the key. Say build up to 3 times a week 30-60 mins for starters.
19.11 5km last year at 40 years old and 13 stone.
That was a run at lunch time along canal. Never done a road race or park run but reckon I'd easily get under 19 with a flat course. Mildly interested to know what I could do with a bit of specific training, but not interested enough to do it.
Easiest thing for speed, run intervals with people faster than you and lose weight.
In the fine words of Swiss Tony. Running should be like making love to a beautiful women, it should be long, slow and muddy 😯
I've only ever done 1 parkrun without a buggy, (massive respect for the 17odd with a buggy turboferret!) and it was 19:09.
At the time I was riding my commute (15 miles each way) a lot, and doing some fell running too. This gave me loads of base fitness and leg strength.
To get a bit more speed, I find a couple of sets of tabata intervals during a gentle run - 1 set on a tough hill, one set on the flat - does wonders for my leg speed. Also helps with the running through the burning muscles feeling too!
A lot of it is finding what works for you. Never been a fan of structured training, just like to go for a run or ride of an evening, but the benefits of intervals are pretty sizeable I find.
A good slice of the improvement you've seen probably comes from realising you can hurt yourself a bit more and it's not so bad.
A mate of mine pushed his times down by smashing off the front with the fastest and seeing how long he could hang on for. Took him a little while, but without too much extra training, he found he was hanging on for longer and longer before blowing up until he started to be able to finish strongly at the same pace.
Might be worth a try! 🙂
Oh yeah.
Start on the start line thats a good minute right there if not more!
to be fair that technique has served me well in Zwift racing!A mate of mine pushed his times down by smashing off the front with the fastest and seeing how long he could hang on for.
Become good friends with Speed sessions and tempo runs.
I’m 41. Used to pop along and run parkrun in around 22:30/ 23 mins on not much regular running.
In May I joined a running club. 2 nights a week the club holds coaching sessions which generally focuses on speed work of some kind (on track and cycle paths).
I’ve got my 5k down to 19:25 and planning to go sub 19.
IMO if you want to go faster, that’s what you need to focus on in your training but don’t neglect the longer general runs to build endurance. Tempo runs are ideal
Finished a 100 mile road ride event last year in 4h59m56s. My (ambitious for me) goal was "under 5 hours" as it represented a 30 minute improvement over my best.
😆
VERY similar story here... Done a few centuries, fastest was about 5hr40 on a faster course, said to myself anything under 5hr30 would be good on Ride London... Came in at 4hr59min47sec I think! I actually burst into tears as I crossed the line, I couldn't contain the emotion!
FFWD 12 months and I smashed the previous year at 4hr37, barely raised a smirk as I crossed the line 😆
Anyway, running...
I could barely run 50m these days, let alone 5000 (I'm ok on a bike, but any impact sport is a no go for me right now!), but I was a good short and middle distance runner as a teenager. My Dad was 3 county (Hereford/Worcs/Glos) champion at 100/200/400 for most of his teens so I guess it came naturally to me (though I never had his natural ability) which I guess helped. Problem was I just couldn't get into it, I found it incredibly boring! Tried doing a few runs past the forced cross country runs at school (where I'd usually walk part of it with mates out of protest), and when I was about 15 (so my Dad was about 41) we started doing a few 5k's together to try to get us both back into it (he'd spent most of his 20's drinking, and most of his 30's eating). Think the first run was 19 something, and after 3 or 4 attempts we got into the 17 minutes bracket. Working this back, that's approx a 10mph avg pace, but I used to find it impossible to "run" at anything below about 8.5mph avg. About 15yrs later my best mate decides to get fit, I start going down the gym with him, we jump on the running machines and he sets them to 6mph, which was just a fast walk to me! I literally can't run that slow! 😆
So if a fat 41yo and an uninterested 15yo can do that, I'd be surprised if most regular runners can't apply themselves and do the training to get sub 20 for sure... Will reiterate that my body is a state right now, and though I can get on a bike for 5hrs at a time, I couldn't manage to run 5k at all these days let alone in a good time!
Incredibly depressing reading this! I thought I was doing ok, am a 48 year old , 14 stone bloke who has done parkrun since February 2017. My first runs were around the 32 minute mark. At the time I was nearly 17 stone. In December I managed to get to 24:30 and have now run 25 mins dead or better on 3 times.
Hoping to get to sub 24 this year with which I’d be very happy. My best age grading is normally high 50s to 60%.
I run with a couple of 50 year olds which run between 20 and 22 minutes but they are both race whippets and about 11 stone.
The only person I know that runs sub 20 is 17.
I have another running buddy who is a similar age and not a race whippet and he can do sub 23 but that’s down to sheer bloody mindedness on his part.
I’m probably not trying hard enough........
Incredibly depressing reading this!
Don't be depressed, it all depends what you want out of it and how much time / energy you are willing to commit.
Incredibly depressing reading this!
Considering how long you’ve been running and where you started from I think yours is a good achievement.
I use a treadmill in hotel gyms to train for this. Start at 15 and bump it up gradually.
Then longer 10-15k runs outside.
JGG, hope you don't take offence but unless you are really tall 14stone is a lot of timber to be carrying around.
It can be not a lot of timber at all. What is that 90kilos or thereabouts? Some people are built a little stockier, some are very lean. If you are naturally lean it’s gonna be of greater help for middle/long distance sports. That’s not to say if you are more solidly built, look at Eddie izzard, you cant excel at endurance but pace is gonna be harder to achieve.
I only do XC and trail running - I hate the tarmac cos I’m a mountain biker, ain’t I - and have this year hit 21 at 5km and mid 40’s for 10. I spoke to a superfast marathon runner about how to get a step change, and he reckoned it’d be marginal gains after introducing hill reps, spring reps etc., to which I said I only run for convenience and would rather be riding the trails and ther and then my goal of sub 20 min 5km evaporated.
Hope you hit your target OP.
46, I’ve done 3 park runs 2 of which were under 20, 19’20 best, primarily because they had a 20 pace runner who I tucked in behind then gave it laldy past towards the end. I don’t do any structured training as such, couple of runs a week, one game of 5 aside, cycle a couple miles to work every day. Crank it up a bit when there’s a race in the next few months, managed top 10% or better of every race I did last year.
One thing I notice is that so many park runners further down the field have really poor form: posture and upper body movement, but also generally a far too low cadence. I reckon most folk could chop a few minutes off just by concentrating on an efficient and fast style
Some of the triathletes in the uni club do 5k (at Parkrun, not on a track) in the low 16s (16:15 is the best I've seen). I'd never had any context as to how good this is, but judging from this thread that's pretty handy right?
I'm considering doing a parkrun at some point, but I don't really fancy doing run training of any sort, is this a terrible idea? I'm a fairly fit 21 year old, and invariably I'd end up trying to stay with the triathletes mentioned above and killing myself. Any tips?
Not sure if it's been mentioned to try it on a treadmill, it'll show you the pace you need to go and you can always hop off when your body over takes your legs.
I've gone sub 20 a few times and I'm a bit of a lump suited to shorter distances. Doing it on a treadmill made me think I could do it outside.
Try going to the front of the park run pack next week and keep up with the quick people, doesn't matter if you blow up and cross the line at walking pace.
OP here. Set of on my local park run today and without planning to do so, found myself running inside the top ten when I'm normally about mid pack. The pace was obviously higher and was a bit of an eye opener as to what I will need to be doing. After lap 1 (of 3) I dropped off and then sat on a park bench to contemplate the task. Jogged the remaining 2 laps just to say that at least I completed it.
Interesting.
Anyone else doing a similar thing, feel free to highjack this thread. Would like to hear other peoples stories.
Some of the triathletes in the uni club do 5k (at Parkrun, not on a track) in the low 16s (16:15 is the best I've seen). I'd never had any context as to how good this is, but judging from this thread that's pretty handy right?
World record for 5k is 12:37 (that's 3 consecutive sub 4 minute miles, over 15mph avg pace ffs!) for men and 14:11 for women, 16:15 is certainly handy (5m12sec per mile) but they won't earn a living from running that pace.
Remember that the world record marathon run is 2:02:57, which equates to 26.2 consecutive 4m41sec miles!!! That's sub 15min pace for a 5k but doing it 8 and a bit times on the trot! The mind boggles...
One thing I notice is that so many park runners further down the field have really poor form: posture and upper body movement, but also generally a far too low cadence. I reckon most folk could chop a few minutes off just by concentrating on an efficient and fast style
As someone who used to be a half decent runner, I couldn't agree more. I can't run for toffee these days, but 90% of the people I see out running these days need to learn to run first, before they do themselves a damage! But the same could be said for most road cyclists that take it up, learning to turn the pedals at a good cadence in a smooth style rather than just jumping on the bike and hacking up and down would work wonders, but of course "it's just like riding a bike" so nobody bothers to learn!
Can I just thank the OP for starting this thread? Inspired by it I got it into my head to see if I could go sub 20 as zi haven’t done it for a ehile. I wanted to go to Burnley as it’s reasonably flat and fast but got outvoted by the Mrs so we went to Avenham Park, Preston. This has a Hill in it and you do 3 laps. Cut a long story short I surprised myself and ended up 10th in a time of.... 19:59!! Happy bunny.
but 90% of the people I see out running these days need to learn to run first, before they do themselves a damage
Very much agree with this, it’s even painful to watch.
My aim for 2016 was a sub 20 Parkrun. rather surprisingly to me it had been achieved by 09:19:47 on the first of January at the age of 50. I got my pb down by another second to 19:46 a month or so later. Not sure what my best would be now but certainly slower, I lost 9 months to Plantar Fasciitis and though I'm back running I'm not aiming or training for anything just running for the fun of it. Best thing I found for improving was hill reps and 1K at full pace repeats.
Im 14 stone and 6 ft. If you saw me you wouldn't say I am carrying a lot of timber. Broadish shoulders,44 chest, size 34 waist, and virtually no flab. Most of my weight is probably in my thighs as a consequence of cycling and rugby.At best i think i could lose 1/2 to 1 stone then Id look unhealthy!
Currently running between 40 and 50k a week. Looks s like I am best concentrating specifically on speed work and hills. I did manage a 24.13 this morning so confident I can improve to 23 soon.n
I trained 6 days a week most weeks and got down to 15:15. Granted, i was 16 and a lot fitter than now! But what gets you faster is teaching your legs to turn over faster and not give up.
Measure a 2k course, or enter some shorter runs. At least once a week do intervals between 3-800m.
BUT, if you're not used to it, take it very easy to begin with. Do a proper warm up that lifts your heart rate right up.
Something like 4x800m at target 5k race pace, 2 min jog recovery between. Or 6x400m faster.
20min should be absolutely achievable for you. Don't forget hill sessions. Even a short 4k fast run with as many hills as possible over a set route. Aim to finish the last hill on your knees ?
World record for 5k is 12:37 (that's 3 consecutive sub 4 minute miles,
That's on the track. Informal road world record is only 13 mins! ?
How do you learn to run properly ( safely) then?
Look both ways before you cross the road?
Zippy +1
A lot of people only get out 1-2x a week which isn't enough. You really have to throw yourself into it.
There will always be exceptions. Some people can train quite lightly and have a major training "response" and run at a high standard. These are rare IME.
It also depends on how fit you are now, what your previous sporting history is and how you react to the stresses of training. Typically you would be running around 30-35 miles per week as a minimum.
JGG, you might think you won't like how you look at 13 stone but I bet you'd be miles faster and overall healthier. Of course you don't have to if you don't want to. But it's surely the most effective and straightforward way to knock a chunk off your run time. I know BMI is a crude measure but you are comfortably into the overweight category.
I've never actually done a Parkrun, but since joining our local fun runners last October I've knocked about 3 minutes off my 5k time (we have a 5k race around town on the first Tuesday of every month followed by cake)- which last Tuesday (after waiting to cross a road and getting held up behind some slower runners) was 20:59 - and I can feel that there is loads more improvement to come.
What really worked for me (I can't afford to lose any weight as I'm 5'11" and only 9 stone 11lb) was running 1km at around 5:00 pace, then 1km at 4:00 pace (or as close as I could get) and repeating it for 8km. After a while the faster stuff felt almost normal.
I've badly twisted my knee cross country racing at the weekend, so I'll have to see how that goes, but I'll be disappointed if I don't get to 19 minutes this year.