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Depending on how far you are walking day one you could always take "real food" for the first night. If my first day is shorter (due to travel etc) then the extra weight can be offset by having something nice for the first evening.
As above dividing everything up is a good idea so you keep track of what your eating.
one square meal bars,
I thought of those too, but as far as I know they aren't available outside New Zealand, and there isn't anything similar that is as good available here.
despite the fact that prior to the advent of agriculture, carbs were a tiny proportion of our diets and regarded as a treat worth going to some lengths for.
Really? I thought that most hunter-gatherer societies were thought to have had a majority vegetable & foraging based diet, with the exception of far north socieities (Inuit, Scandinavians etc.), with actually hunting and killing an animal being the treat?
For what it's worth, for big meals on that sort of trip I've always just bought a load of packet pasta / packet rice etc. with some kind of protein that can be chucked in. Cheap, easy to cook and quite light.
I'd be interested to know if anyone actually fit / fast makes much use of these high-protein & fat diets, except when doing extended trips in very cold areas? I mean at 24 hour races, you don't see the fast people eating lard, it's all about jelly babies and pasta etc. Are all these fast people missing a trick, and they'd be 50% faster again if they swapped over to a butter/lard mixture, or are the people suggesting these diets for exercise talking rubbish?
Agree with most of the comments....Army rations although heavy aren't bad, if you do use them break down the boxes and shift them round your bergen for weight distribution. If you go down the rat pack route, don’t worry if you don’t poo for a few days, it’s normal but be prepared for when you do ?
Always make sure your next days meals are near the top or in a side pouch, carrying treats in your pockets. Melted Yorkie and Biscuits Brown brings back happy memories.
Add a spoonful of powder chocolate mix to your porridge when you want.
Surprisingly Southern Comfort in coffee is a nice tipple after a cold, hard days jaunt. Kendal Mint cake for day 5 just for the extra sugar hit and a mug of oxtail soup and a crème egg is also great when it’s cold, wet and miserable.
Always check your Bergen when you stop at a pub otherwise you’ll find you’ve carried the carry out for the group up the next big climb
I mean at 24 hour races, you don't see the fast people eating lard, it's all about jelly babies and pasta etc. Are all these fast people missing a trick, and they'd be 50% faster again if they swapped over to a butter/lard mixture, or are the people suggesting these diets for exercise talking rubbish?
As far as I know, the DofE isnt a race
Joemarshall. to oersimplify greatly
Carbs give you the energy in an easier to use package, fats contain more energy per gramme. A diet of fats would be a large improvement in sustained severe exercise - like 30 days trekking in the Antarctic. It would be worse for a 24 hr mountainbike ride as you need more O2 to gat eh energy from it and it takes longer to get the energy.
Food for multiday treks of the levewl of the DoE schemes needs to meet several criteria.
1) light
2) easily digested
3) easy to cook
4) contain plenty of energy
5) last without refrigeration.
6) palatable
I find a diet of mixed foodstuffs that is dehydrated as detailed in my post above meeets this. Plenty of carbs high and low GI, fats and protein in normal quantities.
As far as I know, the DofE isnt a race
No, but it's a largish amount of exercise, which you want to efficiently fuel yourself for.
I dunno. I've done quite a few endurance events, hiking, bike touring, canoe trips etc. and like someone above says, in every case it seems like everyone is eating quite a lot of carbohydrates, with a bit of protein and fat, rather than a protein/fat based diet. In cases when people have got things wrong and bonked, it always seems like they didn't eat enough carbs, and chocolate bars or similar have got them back going. Would they really have been better loading up with lard and trying to digest that whilst doing lots of exercise?
I can see that for weight loss there are arguments around Atkins type fad diets, but for exercise?
Oh, my other top and possibly not sensible tip for doing long, very lightweight camping trips, is that you don't need quite as much energy as you are using. Have a massive meal the day before, plus you can push yourself and then have a big pizza when you get home! I've done some pretty long rides with just a 20 litre backpack plus a sleeping bag bivvi thing, good fun that is.
Just take a bigger bag
This.
I don't know what size of bag you are using but it must be pretty small if you can only take enough food for 3 days. I've done 6 day trips with a 65l sack and I'm by no means obsessive about saving weight.
I've also been told that you burn stored fat as easily as dietary fat, so unless you are super skinny there's no point taking fat with you.
No idea if that's right but it was told to me by a coach.
And trangias are crap, far better than nasty gas nonsense you get these days.
Used lots of them extensively in my time leading groups and private use. Always, ALWAYS return to my trangia for reliable fast cooking. People tell me they're slow, well I boiled nearly a full 500ml pan of water in 3 minutes at the foot of a glacier in 20 knot wind only last week, not sure why you'd need any faster personally! Plus I bought a random flammable fuel (turned out to be ethanol but I've run it on white spirit and petrol) from a place when and where there was no gas fuel available. YMMV.
I don't know what size of bag you are using but it must be pretty small if you can only take enough food for 3 days. I've done 6 day trips with a 65l sack and I'm by no means obsessive about saving weight.
+1, I used an 80 litre bag on my gold, but it was actually mostly compressed down to about the size of a 60 litre.
You talk to me as if I've never used one CK 🙂
maybe instead of investing in a bigger bag, i should invest in a smaller sleeping bag. it won't be cold and the 3 season one i have is 2kg and takes about 20-25 litres of the 65 i have. also the tents we are given are not particularly compact so with the clothes as well, the main bit of the bag is nearly full. then i am left with the pockets for most of the other stuff.
You talk to me as if I've never used one CK
Not at all, just amazed by how you can be so contrary in opinion to myself on something that's pretty fundamental. I've tried a heap of gas ones and never found one that came close in performance (and handiness of packing). Even the gas trangia attachment doesn't work as well as the liquid fuel one. Never tried a jetboil, would like to.
instead of investing in a bigger bag take less stuff. I use a 50l for trekking and can do 4 days without resupply with that (admitedly with stuff shared between 2)
with the clothes as well
You'll only need what you will be wearing plus one change of socks (in case they get wet) and if you feel particularly decadent one change of underwear.
A good stuff sack for your sleeping bag would be a good idea.
On stoves - they all have advantages and disadvantages - a trangias main advantage is its simplicity - they just work and continue to work in poor conditions. I have had gas stoves fail because they were too cold ( although I have supposed 4 season gasmix now) they are also very convenient with the built in windshield. No extra weight compared to my pocket rocket by the time I have the windsheild, spare gas can and pots
gonfishin - you must have a spare set of clothes in case of emergency / getting soaked
I didn't like the controlability of the Trannie when I used it. Too much or too little. Also it was uneconomical, had stinky fuel and the whole caboodle was heavy with the metal stand and chunky pans.
It was a long time ago but I got the impression they hand't changed much.
I either use a pocket rocket super light type thing or an MSR liquid fuel one.
maybe instead of investing in a bigger bag, i should invest in a smaller sleeping bag. it won't be cold and the 3 season one i have is 2kg and takes about 20-25 litres of the 65 i have. also the tents we are given are not particularly compact so with the clothes as well, the main bit of the bag is nearly full. then i am left with the pockets for most of the other stuff.
Sounds like a large bag. My 5 season down bag fits across the bottom of my rucksack, taking about 15 litres total, but it was pricey I admit.
What clothes are you packing? IIRC on my gold I took one spare set of shell-type bottoms, a change of socks and undies per day and a couple of Tshirts. Add that to your first set of clothes and waterproofs and you shouldn't really be filling a bag, but 5 days worth of food should fit in the side pockets and top pretty easily.
Mols - I have weighed a trangia against a pocket rocket with windshield, minimal pots and spare gas can - nothing in it
The one I had was pretty heavy, there may be a lighter weight one available now.
Most of my lightweight stays have been overnight stops on Polarises, and I have used a very small gas can and my stove is actually some other make that's smaller and lighter than a pocket rocket. I didn't take a windshield, either improvising or cooking in the tent.
I used an 80 litre bag on my gold
I take it you took the kitchen sink then.
I didn't like the controlability of the Trannie when I used it. Too much or too little. Also it was uneconomical, had stinky fuel and the whole caboodle was heavy with the metal stand and chunky pans.
It's variable from full tilt to almost zero with the ring, a single burner fill (200ml? ish) will boil 3 500ml pans meaning a single 1 litre bottle will do 2 guys a 5 day expedition easily, and while the fuel may stink, you're not eating it or wearing it so what does it matter? Weight-wise - compared to the gas cans and the same number of pans? Bearing in mind you can leave out some pans and the kettle if needed too?
Just not sure there's enough in it and whenever I've used a gas one I've wished I had my trangia, never the other way round but I must admit I've done with most of my lightweight walking these days.
Pointless argument, but that is still much more fuel than my MSR uses and the fuel stinks which in itself is a problem - the smell is unpleasant.
Well you see molgrips . The trangia has not changed. However you are then not comparing like with like for weight. I will buy a trangia next time I go camping where the temp could drop below 5 c. I do multiday lightweight trekking in the wilds every year. Reliability is crucial
Alright, I'm wrong. Trangias are brilliant, it's all in my head 🙂
(btw I am not comparing trangia with gas, but with pressurised liquid fuel.. and if you know it's not going to be below 5 degrees then the temperature thing is not an issue).
What fuel do you use that smells so nice Mol?
Each to his own eh.