any gurus of employ...
 

[Closed] any gurus of employment contracty type things in the house..,.

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Long story short...

My son is 18, just left college with Arborist qualifications..

He has been working for his current employer 2 days a week for the last 8 month's ( when not at college ) but now he's left college his employer has given him a contract to sign for full time work & there are a couple of points which don't sound quite right to me.. these are

3 month trial period..

Employee to supply his PPE and when it needs re-needing employer will replace.

28 days holiday pa. including bank-holidays

Employee will only be paid for the days he's needed...ie. if there is no work to do on a Friday, for instance..he'll only get 4 days pay..

( the other morning he turned in for work and the employers wife tells him boss et al have gone on a course. .."didn't he tell you?" He hadn't..wife says you can weed the garden...which he did and only got £30 instead of his normal £60..

Holidays requests to be handed in at least 7 days prior to the holiday...
My son handed in his request form yesterday asking for his holiday from 19/7 - 03/08 which was denied today..he's gutted as we have BPW booked, Ard Rock Enduro and other mtb destinations planned.

Working hours are 7:30 - 5:00... for £65..bearing in mind he spends most of the day climbing trees with harness & chainsaw.

I think he's taking the p*ss and the contract seems very one-sided.

Thoughts...


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 6:47 pm
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Massive pisstake IMO

9.5 hrs for £65 for what I'd class as a skilled job.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 6:54 pm
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Hmm, the own PPE rule seems to skirt very close to legality of HASAWA and PPE regulations - fairly sure that if an employee then employer has to provide it FOC.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 7:07 pm
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I agree with both of the above

Supplying own PPE
Only being paid for days needed... smells like self-employment..


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 7:14 pm
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PPE is the employers responsibility not only to provide but to make sure it is worn as well.

trial /probationary period is standard practice 3 months is quite short IMHO

Holidays seems vague but most are - in law the employer can decide unless the contract says differently - if it just states time limit for submission IMHO it implies they will be accepted but it is a grey area.

Not getting paid for not working - standard zero hours contract - legal assuming the contract does not state number of hours per week - doe sit state when he gets told he is not needed?

The weeding job - totally taking the piss - it is not even the Minimum wage let along his agreed rate but she may have been trying to be helpful as she could have said go home

hard to say they may be ok but naive they may be taking the piss

why was the holiday denied?

IMHO the boss/owner will expect him to be off when he is off

all contracts are very one sided


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 7:15 pm
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Is his job title the same? If so, no 3 month trial period as he had that when he first started doing that job.

I would tell them where to go and get a job elsewhere.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 7:33 pm
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Job title is Arborist..I presume it's the same, I'll ask him when he's home.

It doesn't say Hrs per week just " Hours of work will be 7:30 - 5:30 Monday to Friday..flexible depending on requirements of the job.
Jobs occasionally might take longer no overtime. ..

The 28 days holiday includes public & bank-holidays

're holidays requests...quote " At least one weeks notice is required when requesting holiday to allow for 're rescheduling of jobs. "

I think the 3 months probation period is so that he doesn't have to put his money up for 3 months as he said it'll go up again if he takes him on permanently..


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 8:23 pm
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with regard to the hols situation this is skirting close to the wind too as if the employee has given enough notice and unless the business is unable to function its deemed unreasonable to deny the holiday and would count as grounds toward constructive dismissal


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 8:30 pm
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Well the job's obviously a bit shit under those conditions. Any chance of finding a better one? Or at least, are there good prospects for some sort of promotion or improvement after a year or two?


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 8:30 pm
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Apart from him having to supply his own PPE, I'd say people where getting to hung up on the finer details about his 'rights'.

Real world work experience is far more valuable at his age than foot-stamping about poor terms.

I'd say stick with it over the summer, learn the job and move on if it's not working.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 8:54 pm
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No offence to anyone here intended, but just call ACAS for free impartial advice on anything employment related - 0300 123 1100.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 8:57 pm
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I think we have answered the OP's questions


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:00 pm
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What's the matter junkyard you got something better to do??

Don't mind if I educate myself do you?


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:08 pm
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why you saying that to me?
I answered your questions and tried to help

EDIT ahh got it my reply was to the muffin man who said we were focusing on rights- i think we are just answering what you ask - i am not suggesting the thread is over or trying to be an arse


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:11 pm
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He either signs it, re negotiates it, or leaves gets told to go.

Tough on a young lad who has tried and got qualifications, now he needs experience


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:23 pm
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Assuming that he isn't on an Apprenticeship then he should be entitled to the National Minimum Wage which for an 18 to 20 year old is £5.03 per hour as a minimum; however other conditions / terms are vague. It would be worth taking proper legal advice from Citizens Advice Bureau, ACAS or a solicitor. It does seem a very one sided contract


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:28 pm
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If I was asked to provide PPE I would be having doubts about safety at work and employers insurance


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:36 pm
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Sorry Junkyard..sounded like you wanted the thread to be over..apologies

I owe you half a cider..


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:53 pm
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I'm just looking at it like this...

He's managed to get his foot in the door of the industry he's trained for and wants to pursue. There are 1000's of kids who've trained for years but can't get any work, never mind the career they want.

Its not a bad wage - £65.00 for 9.5hr day is more than minimum wage (and he'll get breaks), and at his age earning £800 odd a month will feel like a fortune.

Holidays - 28 days inc Bank Holidays is normal.

The week off you want - unfortunate, but this type of work is seasonal and summer is when he'll need all available staff.

Unless he's inundated with other job offers - suck it up - learn the trade and move on. He's at the start of a long working life!


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 9:54 pm
 br
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[i]Assuming that he isn't on an Apprenticeship then he should be entitled to the National Minimum Wage [/i]

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

£65 sounds right, and tbh it's a zero-hours contract - not good, but unfortunately this is life now.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 10:02 pm
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PPE in this instance; chainsaw protective boots £120+ trousers £100
Then helmet with ear defenders, gloves etc..


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 10:03 pm
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does sound hard but remember that learning a job doesnt end when you get your qualifications, as others have mentioned he is young and the experience to go with his qualifications will be very valuable when he applies for his next job.

its unfortunate that due to current political policy, this is how things go for young people at the moment.
also remember when the trees are falling left right and centre 😉 this coming winter, he will be out of probation and earning more and work will be flat out.
if i were him, i would be using days when work is sparse to shadow the boss and/or read up so i could be preparing for the time in a few years when i would be setting up my own arborist business and employing my own whipping boy

all that said, i know a few tree surgeons, and none of them make much considering what they have to do, most get more from selling firewood then felling trees


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 10:10 pm
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Once he's got his PPE and relevant experience he can set up as a lone trader and take on his old boss. :mrgreen:

Then his old boss will realise the value of having loyal employees instead of setting up competition 😈


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 11:23 pm
 Kuco
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[url= http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/ppe.htm ]HSE PPE.[/url]


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 11:32 pm
 Chew
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I'd say stick with it over the summer, learn the job and move on if it's not working.

^^This

I suspect in that industry the work doesnt really pay that well unless you own your on business. He probably needs 5 years of experience and time to build up contacts to get to that stage, so for the moment its a case of sucking it up until something better comes along.


 
Posted : 02/07/2014 11:35 pm
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[quote=the-muffin-man ]I'm just looking at it like this...
He's managed to get his foot in the door of the industry he's trained for and wants to pursue. There are 1000's of kids who've trained for years but can't get any work, never mind the career they want.

Yeah, jobs don't grow on trees you know.

(mine's the hi-viz one I had to buy myself)


 
Posted : 03/07/2014 12:15 am