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[Closed] Any expert HR / Legal types around - on what basis am I currently employed?

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Hi all,

Bit of a funny one this but I tried Citizens Advice and they didn't know what the answer is.. so I'm trying on here just in case there's someone who might know.

For quite literally years I have been repeatedly working my notice after my role was made redundant. In that time I moved to a new division of the same company and have now worked there for more than 3 years in a series of consecutive temporary roles - with continuous employment the whole of that time.

Before each role I get a letter advising me that my redundancy termination date has changed and that I'm effectively working my notice until then.

The most recent / current letter (signed at the end of last year) had different wording - saying that if I was offered another temporary role then my notice of redundancy would be automatically retracted per company policy.

That happened a few months back when I moved projects immediately at the request of the business / due to a critical business problem that needed to be solved.

At the time I moved to my current role, I wrote to my current line manager to confirm that I was moving to the role and to playback our shared understanding of my duties would be- as we saw them at the time.

I received a written reply copying in the Manager's manager and stating the senior manager had approved it - HR were also copied. I then wrote to HR reconfirming I was starting the role and flagging an existing request I had already made for my notice of redundancy to be retracted. As well as the wording in the letter I signed the company also has a policy of retracting notices of redundancy after 2 years in temporary roles although HR aren't willing to explain why that hasn't happened in my case. I'm a "strong" performer on PDPs so I don't think what's happened since is a reflection on my performance.

At the end of last week I finally received a letter from HR about my new role. Although a 3 month delay sounds ridiculous it's actually pretty consistent with the other letters I've had - processes in HR don't work very well.

BUT - instead of telling me that my redundancy notice had been retracted as I expected, it confirmed yet another "temporary" role and informed me that I'd start to work my notice again today, with a termination date later in the year.

This clearly wasn't what I was expecting, and to that end between March and now I've declined offers to talk about other roles internally because I literally had no idea I would be back on notice and thought I was committed to something for 12-15 months.

I declined to sign the letter because of the above and raised points with HR regarding the failure to retract the notice or communicate anything in the interim period that would have informed me that I was still on notice -so basically by virtue of having said nothing for 3 months they can't say something completely contradictory with less than a week to go before my termination date.

I asked more detailed questions at the start of this week but even though my redundancy termination date was yesterday, HR declined to meet with me to discuss them, say when they would meet with me or say when they might have a response. They also refused to respond to any questions in writing or allow me to speak with the legal dept so I could ask them the same questions and get an answer before the redundancy date.

So basically I've spent the whole week sh44ting myself about whether yesterday was going to be my last day or not given I have signed nothing that takes me past June 30th. My line manager had no information from HR so I've basically only found out I wasn't made redundant yesterday by being able to work today.

So here's the question - I requested my redundancy notice was retracted based on my current agreement which said it would be if I was offered another temporary role. That happened months ago.

HR refused to discuss it so my termination date has come and gone without me having anything in writing to confirm my employment status after the termination date. I'm still working and my manager at least seems to be expecting I will still be working until later in July.

But on what basis am I working?

Does the fact I'm still working in the same role [u]after [/u]my redundancy date mean I've just gone back to being a full time employee not on notice by default? Has the notice expired automatically even though the employer is supposed to write to me to tell me?

I've tried very hard to avoid getting legal as I actually want to stay with the company. But in the absence of any communication from HR I'm not quite sure what to do - and I'm very reluctant to see a lawyer because of the significant cost involved - which I have no way of recovering.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 11:07 am
 hels
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Wow.

Go home, phone an employment lawyer, at least for some proper advice, they don't have to start any action.

Stay there until the company sort all this out.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 11:09 am
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You need to spend some money on an employment lawyer. This is not right.

Unless you are prepared to walk away this isn't going to end, they have you effectively on a short term rolling contract with few rights.

Aside from getting a lawyer I would find a new job. Even if you want to stay having another offer and some legal backup (even if its just using the right phrases with your employer) will help you massively in getting what you want.

I suspect they know you won't quit so they continue to take the Micky


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 11:12 am
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Fascinating situation and my sincere sympathies for the position that you're employer has (quite ridiculously) put you in. It's not remotely fair or right.

Have a conversation with an employment lawyer asap. They will all take a call and talk through the above situation and then advise on where you stand and whether they can help you. They will do this without charge (which is why I pressume you're asking for help here) at least initially. They will tell you when their time becomes billable and if they can see that your employer has acted contrary to the law they will know they can earn a reasonable (i.e. fair) fee.

If it's any consolation, and notwithstanding that IANAL, if you're still being paid a salary then you're still employed. The very act of paying a salary in return for services rendered means there is implied contract between you and your employer. It's the nature of that contract and where it leaves you for the future that the lawyer will need to work out.

Best of luck with resolving it.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 12:08 pm
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Thanks all. With a heavy heart I guess I will have to get some legal advice - it has been a pretty rotten run to be honest..


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 12:38 pm
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it has been a pretty rotten run to be honest..

Never underestimate the ability for coroporate entities to really screw things up without actually meaning to. I know it will sound trite, but there is every chance that they've done what they've done whithout any malicious intent. You could still be happy there; a long shot I know, but it could happen.

The moment you get legal advise I guarantee you will feel better. There's nothing like being well informed to create a sense of security when you're in the middle of a mess.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 12:56 pm
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Rob, horrible position to be in. Personally i would be contacting a lawyer for my own peace of mind. I would also contact HR to get a redundancy calculation and find out why it hasn't been paid. They sound inept enough for you to get the payment and yet still stay employed 😉


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:24 pm
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drslow, hadn't considered that possibility! To be honest they should be paying me the redundancy payment anyway for putting up with the cr5p of the last few years. They certainly can't fault my commitment or delivery but it's supposed to be a reciprocal arrangement.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:27 pm
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Acas area extremely helpful (and free) and would be worth a shout. Do you have legal expenses on your household insurance. May be worth a call also if you do.

Employment law, especially around being on short term contracts for long periods is complex...


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:45 pm
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Thanks DannybGoode, I'm hoping my situation is a bit less complex because I've only been on one contract albeit with interim letters assigning me to new projects and pushing back the termination date each time. I'll find out soon enough though 😀


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:48 pm
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Are HR not in the building (or a place you can get to?) Letters / emails can be very easy to ignore, a person less so. I'm not talking about going and starting a picket line, but talking directly to them is often well worth it.

Additionally, wtf is your manager doing?! Surely he / she knows the real position!

An employment lawyer will give you an initial consultation, then it's £££/hr I'm afraid.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:50 pm
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OP you can (possibly should) speak to HR and say you want to be back on a full time contract, enjoy the work, are finding the current situation extremely stressful due to continued uncertainty etc and see what they say.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:50 pm
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Hard you Aberdeen based ? I only ask as I know 2companys under investigation for similar practices currently - the ever eternal notice period.

They had a heap of front line workforce on these terms avoiding corporate responsibilities......

Whistleblowers went to the press to get action taken but I assume that only got notice taken due to the numbers of people involved.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 2:58 pm
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Op

You need an employment lawyer.

If you're in Hampshire or surrounding area I can suggest a couple of good ones.

Drop me an email if you like and I'll respond with a couple I know.


 
Posted : 01/07/2016 7:57 pm