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[Closed] Any electricians or lighting gurus on here?

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Was just about to change over the kitchen light as the old one is dead, and was met with this many wires, anyone know why there are so many, and do i need to connect it up properly, new light fixture has the standard connection, so 1 x live, 1 x neutral and an earth if required?

Any assistance would be good, would usually just go upstairs and take the floorboard up, but as usual this is the one light under the bathroom, with the tiled floor, crap carpets everywhere else!


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:14 pm
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FUrther info if the pics don't show up:

THere are 4 x grey cables, 3 x cables have the earths connected, so in total there is 4 x Live, 4 x Neutral and 2 (3 and a 1) times earth cables poking through, hoped it would be a bit easier than that!


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:15 pm
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Single

IMG-7622


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:16 pm
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IMG-7623


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:17 pm
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A photo of it not removed from the light would likely have been more helpful. From here it will be very difficult to work out what's what.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:18 pm
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Yep, should have taken a pic before undoing anything. We can theorise about what might do what, but you're not going to know without some careful testing.

But once you get it figured out, some Wago connectors in a Wago box pushed back up into the void and just one piece of twin and earth coming down for the light fitting will make life a lot easier in the future.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:45 pm
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Yeah, wish i had the option, it was damaged and the wiring was all over the place unfortunately, was hoping not to have to go and trace it back, but looks like the only way.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:48 pm
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Did a nuke go off in your house?

What electrical testing kit do you have available to you?


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 8:50 pm
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1 grey supply in
1 grey to switch
1 grey to any other light in the same room
1 grey supply out to the next room
would be my guess.
you'll need a continuity tester to sort it out , visually tracing each cable to its origin will be totally impractical.

its a new build property isnt it ? 😀


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 9:17 pm
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Comical.
You have 3 twin and earths there.
One will be the L+N feed in.
One will be the L+N feed out to the next light.
One will be going to the light switch.
You either need lots of patience, and probable bangs/flashes to sort them out, or, get a multimeter, and find which one is the switch wire. It will have no resistance when the switch is on, and infinity resistance when off, between the blue and brown.
Make sure the power is off before you do it.
When you have found out which one it is, either put some brown sleeving, or tape on the blue wire from the switch.
Then, the 3 browns are joined together, and to nothing else. The switch blue (sleeved brown) goes to Live on the light fitting. The other 2 blues go to Neutral on the light.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 9:21 pm
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unless all the browns and all the blues were connected together in just 2 terminals then reconnect same way.
if not or you cant remember then bummer


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 9:21 pm
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alan, there are 4 x blue/brown as 4 core cables, will borrow a multimeter tomorrow, bit late to start it now, but is your example basically assuming there was 3 cables?


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 9:44 pm
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Dont join all the browns together and all the blues also in another block. You now need to find which is the switch cable from the light switch. The other 2 cables are the lighting ring main. You will need to either find the cable route or use a test meter. If you separate the browns . Carefully turn the mains on. The one brown which has no power will be your switch feed. Now connect the browns all together and the blue wire from the switch brown then becomes your live return to the light from the switch. This should have red tape on it. Then the other 2 blues become the neutral for the light. If that makes any sense.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 9:47 pm
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alan, there are 4 x blue/brown as 4 core cables, will borrow a multimeter tomorrow, bit late to start it now, but is your example basically assuming there was 3 cables?

Then there are 2 outgoing cables. The methodology still applies, find the switch wire with a multimeter.
Join all browns together, join the other 3 blues to N, join the blue (brown sleeved) from the switch to the light.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 9:51 pm
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The other 2 cables are the lighting ring main. You will need to either find the cable route or use a test meter. If you separate the browns . Carefully turn the mains on. The one brown which has no power will be your switch feed. Now connect the browns all together and the blue wire from the switch brown then becomes your live return to the light from the switch. This should have red tape on it. Then the other 2 blues become the neutral for the light. If that makes any sense.

It makes no sense, as it is very wrong.
Lighting is not on a 'ring main'. There's no such thing as a ring main, well, there is, but its usually 11 or 33kV. You mean ring circuit, and lighting is never on a ring, it will be a radial circuit.
If he turns the power on, only one of the cables will be live.
He needs to find out which cable is the switch cable, by turning off the power, and using the resistance scale on the meter, on each cable in turn, and turn the switch on and off each time. With 2 people it would take me 20 seconds, if that. Maybe 40 seconds on my own.
Red tape went out the same time as red cable, 2008 or soon after.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 10:01 pm
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If it's any help, this got me through some dark days:
http://www.lightwiring.co.uk/
Alanl is right, it's less complicated than it looks. The crux is finding which cable is the 'switched live' from the light switch, as described.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 10:07 pm
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In my very humble opinion, if the troubleshooting for this isn’t obvious then you need an electrician. Bear in mind that any one of your blue wires could be live.

Not a fan of pendant-style fittings. They’re put in because they’re marginally cheaper than running two cables to the switch and using a proper junction box for each light, and you end up with exactly this scenario, along with a permanent live in random places in the ceiling.

If you do it yourself - you can’t just stuff your connector blocks (whatever they may be) into the ceiling void, they need to go in a Wagobox or junction box of some kind.


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 10:30 pm
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Cheers Alan, found the switched live, have put it to the live, other 3 blues to neutral and connected the 4 browns, have also put the earths in, everything works except the light, will have to work on it in the morning, but the two outgoings are the cooker light/fan and the dining room light, so at least i know that bit ;o)


 
Posted : 10/09/2020 10:32 pm