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The average cyclist
Whoever he is, it ain't me.
Really? In an ideal world we would all know the highway code
Well we should know the obvious bits and leaving cyclists time and space to set off from a set of lights is pretty rudimentary I'd say.
when im on my bike I assume the worst I take road position early at junctions
So do I
ride in the primary position by default
Same here
assume cars won’t see me
Yep
assume pedestrians will just walk into the road
That too
I honestly couldn’t care less if I hold a car up for 30 seconds if I think it’s stopped me from getting hit.
Me neither
But I wouldn't set off from a set of lights when they are still at red or when sequencing back through to green (see the answers to the above - other road users should wait and my road position will attempt to ensure they have to).
average cyclist
Me neither.
Anyway, we all know that most ‘non-cyclist, er, cyclists’ are just weekenders on their toys. Because facts! 🙃😉
Those thousands who commute, shop, etc by bicycle are usually on a beater and buy from Argos* or ebay. Or Halfords if posh.
*The real Argos, not that boutique bicycle place in Brizzle.
In 2021 even cyclists aren’t cyclists. All points of reference are lost. Am currently watching the US presidential inauguration live stream. And have it on pause.
You can pause live. It’s 2021. 2020 was weird, but weird was just getting started.
It is precisely this sort of action that causes the ‘Anti Cyclist’ sentiment from some other road users
If you think that perfect compliance from cyclists would somehow change motorists' attitudes, I can only suggest that you take more water with it.
I had a bit of a 'discussion' with a lad at work last year, he'd only been there about a week and other than introducing myself on day one hadn't spoken to him at all at this point. I mentioned being out on the bike the previous night in the works canteen one morning and his ears pricked up straight away and asked what kind of bike, assuming I meant a motorbike. Told him it was a mountain bike and had been in the local woods, his reply was 'bunch of f*n ar***s the lot of yous' because he'd been stuck behind 2 lads on the road, side by side, (for at least 200 yards) on his way home last night and couldn't get past as there was traffic coming the other way. I replied, jokingly, that I'd heard the same thing many times about BMW drivers (he had a pimped up 7 series with private reg, obvs his pride and joy), and he didn't speak to me again in the 3 months he was there. Some people are just full of just hate for no reason at all
How do you normally ‘work them’? 😉
(For that example I typed a semi-colon and open bracket, no space)
Normally there is a wee bar of them above the text box.
And I went to school in Tranent, I know what a semi is, but a semi colon just sounds like a medical thingy to me.
This is the bit that interests me. Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike? Doesn’t happen to drivers.
Of course not.
You obviously drive an Audi.
Come here for the bike chat.
Leave with IT expertise.
Every day is a school day here
Gonna take tomorrow's work emails to a whole new level!
^
This is the bit that interests me. Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike? Doesn’t happen to drivers.
Of course not.
You obviously drive an Audi.
someone’s going to have to explain that one to me!
We’re not a cycling nation
Nor was Holland a mere 50 years ago.
my parents didn’t own bikes
I'm old enough to remember my dad and workmates going to the pit on bikes. Oh and apparently the midwife who delivered me came on a bike. Once upon a time bikes were pretty common.
Daffy
Full Member
We’re not a cycling nation, we never have been.
Don't go denying your roots matey. We massively were.
It would be interesting to chart cycle hatred against car ownership and also the rise of social media.
I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude
I keep seeing the phrase significant minority recently. Surely if something reaches the point where it is significant it is no longer in the minority category? Any way, the vast majority of car drivers act like self entitled pricks so why does the same not apply? You rarely see the negative headline that starts with Motorist, Man in car etc whereas Cyclist is all too common.
Basically I think your reasoning is a bit shit. The motorist is king in the UK and people are generally ****s who like to have something to rally against or despise
It's the manifestation of post-war "middle class" snobbery same as if you've worked in an industry where progression from the shop floor to "management" involved discarding overalls and wearing a suit - even if it was the cheapest, shiniest piece of polyester, there was no greater sign of snubbing the noses of your neighbours and workmates that ditching the bike and driving your "motorcar" as a sign of your upward mobility.
I think many drivers see cyclists as somehow getting away with something. Probably very closely linked to the amazing resilience of the road tax myth.
Then there's the 'othering' stuff, decades of car adverts and riding a bike often being shorthand for loser or smug git in lots of media and entertainment we consume. Also the increasing tendency to be more interested in shouting about something than thinking about it.
^. Culture? 60-70 years of a country promoting a transport monoculture and infrastructure (car-culture) will naturally arrive at the point where owning and driving a car is considered by most to be the only really ‘normal’ way for a human being to travel. There really isn't a way ‘back’ for that in generations if at all. It’s not really changed in my time, and I’ve been riding a bike for transport and fun for 40 years. Maybe living in the West Midlands is a different experience to elsewhere in the UK, but I don’t see other cyclists on my shopping trips or commute trips. No more than in the 1980s. Which was also zero. Last time in recent years I commuted far was 22 miles per day and I’d see zero cyclists. Commuting more locally I see one or two maximum. Touring, very few if any. Supermarket shopping the same except for a few days in midsummer. Every week I always smile at the empty bike racks at Mozzers and Waitrose, and Lidl. Nice thoughtful racks (with no security cams) that some architect/optimist/box-checker placed there back in the 90s/2000s. Turned out the security cams would have been a waste of money also.
On the upside (more selfishly) there is plenty of space for me and my bike. Late opening hours and my knowledge of alleyways and byways means I can usually get there in one piece and without annoying all of those understandably irate daylight motorists by the presence of my bicycle on the roads. Wouldn’t wish to be stressing them out.
We’re not a cycling nation
Nor was Holland a mere 50 years ago.
We were. They were. The difference is that they stepped up to the arriving car-culture. We didn’t. So there is effectively no way back. Not after 50 years.
I other words, 60-70 years of promoting a transport monoculture and infrastructure (car-culture) to the point where owning and driving a car is considered by most to be the only really ‘normal’ way for a human being to travel.
...outside of major cities. How good or bad the public transport is in your city is going to have a massive impact on your view on bikes
We’re not a cycling nation
Relatively speaking it's become fairly popular in the UK during the past few years. We're far from a non-cycling nation.
Nor was Holland
Interestingly, they hate cyclists too.
Not so much the normal folk going about their daily business, but if you stray onto the road dressed in lycra you'll very quickly get buzzed.
It does make you think more deeply about the components of this hate and how they come together, as they seem to be ingrained into society regardless of what part of the world you live in.
The difference in the UK is that cycling is not perceived as viable transport. A bike is a toy, it's not something used by normal folk going about their business. It's only used by those other ****s you don't relate to and inconvenience you. And of course that perception is propagated by the media. But I think the source of the problem goes far deeper into the ways we've prioritised society and infrastructure for more than half a century.
Well leaving the collapsing shitstorm that is British public transport is certainly something to aspire to.
stratobiker who used to post here told me his road cycling group had stones chucked at them unprovoked in the S of France near Limoges - it's not just a UK thing. I reckon our high population density makes it worse though.
stratobiker who used to post here told me his road cycling group had stones chucked at them unprovoked in the S of France near Limoges – it’s not just a UK thing. I reckon our high population density makes it worse though.
The fact that you remember that one incident makes it sound like an isolated (and therefore noteworthy) incident?
I don’t know about France’s attitudes to cycling (as a country/culture) so could be completely wrong 😎
Perhaps, though he mentioned it in the context of feeling like people there in general were increasingly intolerant of cyclists on the roads.
When I've cycled in France I've always felt like car drivers there were more respectful but I haven't been for a long while.
The biggest gangs always push other people about. Little shitbag no-marks get emboldened to bowl around like the big boys in the gang.
Probably wearing Team Sky kit
Rockup in FDJ kit and it might be different story
Bored rebellious teens with nowt to do ,having had some vin rouge and a toke.
Same everywhere really
This just popped up in my Facebook feed, seemed relevant.
^^^ Most of the comments seem to be against the driver to be fair.
Although the comments are peppered with plenty of the usual anti-cycling tropes.
Not sure what to make of "CyclingMikey" he has a whole youtube channel of him catching drivers.
When I’ve cycled in France I’ve always felt like car drivers there were more respectful
TBH, most folk in the UK are as well, the vast majority of car users aren’t ranty morons, it’s just we notice the ones that are.
It's the same phenomenon. Someone said earlier, "I can't remember what it's called."
It's confirmation bias. It's like buying a less-common car thinking "you don't see many of them about" and then suddenly bugger me, they're everywhere. Once you get a seed in your head that all cyclists / taxi drivers / van drivers / vegans / religious types / fat people / gingers are bastards then every time you spot one that is you think "yup, knew it" and conveniently don't see the vast majority that aren't.
This just popped up in my Facebook feed, seemed relevant.
/blockquote>
I would love to know how the driver tried to justify that one to the police. Some people are just absolute morons.
It’s confirmation bias. It’s like buying a less-common car thinking “you don’t see many of them about” and then suddenly bugger me, they’re everywhere. Once you get a seed in your head that all cyclists / taxi drivers / van drivers / vegans / religious types / fat people / gingers are bastards then every time you spot one that is you think “yup, knew it” and conveniently don’t see the vast majority that aren’t.
Is there a persecution complex as a cyclist too?
TBH, most folk in the UK are as well, the vast majority of car users aren’t ranty morons, it’s just we notice the ones that are.
They still hate us though.
Haven’t read the whole thread as breaktime
Is only so long! I imagine because people are dicks. Me, you and everyone else here. We are all guilty of hating things. Just look at every thread that mentions dogs or politics or walkers or any other group of people. We all think we are right!
I’ve heard a lot of anti cyclist stuff be based around grown men in Lycra! That someone doesn’t want to see it. I see their point 😂😂
1. Some people hate anything that inconveniences them in any way. Most drivers have had to slow down at some point for a bicycle in front of them. See also caravans on country lanes.
2. Some people hate those that do positive things as it reminds them that they are not doing such things. So they pigeonhole others as virtue signalling or up themselves. See also vegans.
3. Some people don't like anything that they see as not normal, like a grown up riding a "child's toy" and coming into work dressed in skin tight fluorescent silliness. See also people heckling others for strange haircuts or dress sense.
Add to this the negative reinforcement of social media and elements of the press (and J. Clarkson) which panders to, confirms and justifies the above and you are fighting a losing battle.
And saying its good for the environment only supports number 2.
And saying its good for the environment only supports number 2.
To be fair in the UK at least that is a pretty rubbish claim. For personal transport and infrastructure we as a society chose to pursue something closer to the 1950s US model and continue largely to continue along this road (wahey). In this reality most short trips in this country are made in a car/vehicle. P
What you or I do on our bikes makes less than a scrap of difference in this culture. If I was to claim that riding my bike was ‘good for the environment’ it would be somewhat akin to claiming that my taking of a homeopathic tincture of thyme was ‘good for cleaning up the lungs of all the smokers in your city’.
In that, I’d probably deserve all of the ridicule from every petrolhead/cyclist-botherer for my inane virtue-signalling
I’m an environmentalist/conservationist at heart, but I rarely if ever mention it to people I meet, or even bring it up in conversation unless with ‘special friends of a similar persuasion’.
You’d have half a chance discovering that your promotion of making changes for the environment would be thought more controversial and ire-magnetising than if you were promoting a belief that the current pandemic is a Jewish globalist conspiracy and that vaccines are a tracking device so that Bill Gates can reset your life, get your kids into a pizza parlour and drink their spinal fluid while you are now owned by China...
*Given statement being taken in context of the cultural climate in which we live.
Pay road tax? I'm riding a two grand bike, I clearly pay plenty of tax.
Pay road tax? I’m riding a two grand bike, I clearly pay plenty of tax.
I think it may have been Paddy McGuinness on the radio this week (or last) who said that he'd bought a bike for his partner and couldn't conceive of a world where people spend more than £300 on a bike. So that's less than his TV, shoes (probably), trousers (maybe), watch (almost certainly). 😀
Bikes are toys for most people. That's why they think it's ok to walk their loose dogs on cycle-paths - because what lunatic would possibly think of using a cycle-path for it's intended purpose.
I think it may have been Paddy McGuinness on the radio this week (or last) who said that he’d bought a bike for his partner and couldn’t conceive of a world where people spend more than £300 on a bike.
To be fair I was in exactly the same position years ago. I just thought a bike was a bike. I bought a sub £200 Giant, because it was a make i'd at least heard of. Ironically it was getting it nicked that made be reconsider as the insurance replacement was just a little but better in every way it made me start looking at more expensive bikes and what the actual differences were a lot more seriously.
I've just worked out where the anti-cycling all started!
GOLDENEYE
The chase scene at the start of the film.
Jealousy, pure and simple.
Those who potter across on the red light. It's not that the driver thinks, Shocking breaking the law like that, its a case of they cant do it and are jealous of those who can.
Filter up the inside, the outside or the middle and the driver sees this and is thinking , Why can't i do that ???, jealousy yet again.
Nearly all the arguments they give are selfish and self centered.
Pay for the roads, obey the signals and rules, but not as a road user, and be consigned to the gutter side.
Follow the highway code. In that I think the highway code puts the cyclist in a defensive position, just to the left of the white line, and as there is no undertaking allowed, they have to cross the white line to overtake, as they would with anything else, be that car,truck or bus.
Jealousy, pure and simple.
You don’t think it’s more complex and cultural than simple envy?
So why are (say) the Danish so different/accepting around/of bicycles? Are the English just horribly petty and ignorant people?
I don't buy the envy line at all, quite the opposite, your average fat middle aged Q7 driver looks down his whisky pocked nose at the poor cyclists.
p7 - its "othering" as per my links above. to the danish cyclists are not "others" as everyone either rides a bike or has a family member who does. thats why the difference
Paddy McGuinness [ ] who said that he’d bought a bike for his partner and couldn’t conceive of a world where people spend more than £300 on a bike.
I find it disconcerting to conceive of a world where people think Paddy McGuiness' opinion on bikes is worth anything.
It's the manly rage of fat incel car slobs can't get it up.
They're jealous of all the fit toned cyclists who are obviously flitting across the city from one assignation to another.
Pay road tax? I’m riding a two grand bike, I clearly pay plenty of tax.
Like.
as there is no undertaking allowed
A popular, but incorrect, belief.