[Closed] Another good reason for Scotland to gain independence....

better thread title than this one:

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/racist-charging-must-be-illegal ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/racist-charging-must-be-illegal[/url]

I'd be seeking compensation, not just free education, if I was going to [s]live [/s] suffer up there.

better thread title than this one:

Ooops. Ah well, at least my title's more accurate. To my knowledge, neither the English nor the Scots are a race.

Discriminatory, YES. Racist, nope.

Not discriminatory either as a moments thought would tell you

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Not discriminatory either as a moments thought would tell you

A moment's thought tells me that it is legislation that discriminates whether or not a person has to pay for their education based solely upon their nationality or country of residence.

TJ in failure to understand basic dictionary definition shocker

[url= http://www.moneywise.co.uk/cut-your-costs/household-bills/england-versus-scotland-whos-better ]yeah we really suffer up here[/url]

crap scenery and biking too 🙄

yeah we really suffer up here

You will when most of Europe comes for free university tuition 🙂

No zokes - its you that in your desparation to find something to launch into fails to understand - its only discrimination in the meaning of "choice" not in the "unfair" way

Still- you are not the only one to fail to understand this in your faux outrage over something you don't really know about nor understand.

What do you think the qualification is for getting free university education in scotland?

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If STW were to start enough threads on this topic (Ooh look, almost there!) we could harness the energy generated from TJ toing and froing between them like a whirling McDervish to solve the global energy shortage.

😉

Well this argument throws up lots of interesting perspectives including this (in the aftermath of Edin Uni's decision to increase (sorry double!!) its offers made to English students:

Graeme Kirkpatrick, the NUS’s Scottish deputy president, warned Edinburgh was “doing huge damage to its reputation” by offering more places to English school leavers. “There is simply no need for it to be so greedy and chase the students with the highest price tag, given the record levels of public investment being put into Scottish universities,” he said.

Not a hint of discrimination there??

How many threads would it take him to reach a critical mass though Flashy? We could use him as a reactor core then

Uncle Jezza - more volatile than weapons grade plutonium 😀

What do you think the qualification is for getting free university education in scotland?

its only discrimination in the meaning of "choice" not in the "unfair" way

So it's fair that someone in Carlisle has to fork out 9K, but someone in Edinburgh (or, as the article highlights, anywhere else in the EU EXCEPT Wales and England) does not for the same product?

Yeah, I'm sure everyone can see [i]that[/i] argument now you've pointed it out 🙄

faux outrage over something you don't really know about nor understand.

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Binners, if we could get it to oscillate between Scotchland, teheviltories, nuclear power (edit for Zokes!) and helmets, I reckon he could go critical.

😉

How many threads would it take him to reach a critical mass though Flashy? We could use him as a reactor core then

Uncle Jezza - more volatile than weapons grade plutonium

Speaking of which, it's been a while since we've had a nuclear power thread...

CFH - I am just laughing at the people who in their desperation to show they are hard done to fail to understand the issue.

The reason it is not discriminatory is is that anyone who meets the qualifying criteria can get this perk. A scots person who went to secondary in England could not, an English person who went to secondary in Scotland could do so.

don't worry, the scots will piss all the profits up the wall, much as they did with north sea oil.

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Don't go there zokes! With two scotlandshire threads going already, the internet would implode if someone inadvertently started a helmets thread

Think of the children!

CFH - I am just laughing at the people who in their desperation to show they are hard done to

I'm not hard done by at all. I only had to pay 1K per year in fees, then had my PhD paid for by the EU, paid almost nothing back on my student loan in two years on UK postdoc wages, then buggered off to Oz for a decent job - all paid for by the EU tax payer 🙂

But my younger brother-in-law in Wales probably has been though...

Herr zokes you must be so proud 😀

The whole story is, by the way, based on an anonymous statement by a person of unknown seniority and training, which is misrepresented by the next person quoted (after a quick non-sequitur injected by the journalist):

A Scottish Government spokesman confirmed that nationality not residence was the key when it came to defining an EU student, and that anyone with an Irish passport living in the UK could apply for free tuition.

Students in Northern Ireland have dual nationality and can opt for Irish passports.

Cathy Moore, chair of the Careers Teachers' Association, said: "The Scottish Parliament has said if you have an Irish passport and live in Northern Ireland and provide that, (Irish passport) you are eligible to have the fees paid."

The reason it is not discriminatory is is that anyone who meets the qualifying criteria can get this perk.

The reason it is not discriminatory is is that anyone who meets the qualifying criteria can get this perk. A scots person who went to secondary in England could not, an English person who went to secondary in Scotland could do so.

And a French person attending a secondary in France?

Konaybunny - yes indeed but within the UK the criteria is "where did you do your secondary school"

So the qualification is non UK but EU passport holder or having done 3 years secondary school in Scotland. For example a person with an aussie passport who had done 3 years school in Scotladn would be entitled to the free secondary education.

This is why it is not discrimination

Is it discrimination that a Scottish pensioner cannot get free bus travel in London but they can in Glasgow?

Or that a Scottish teacher does not get London Weighting?

It really is laughable the desire to show the English are hard done by.

The reason it is not discriminatory is is that anyone who meets the qualifying criteria can get this perk.

That sounds remarkably like the logic that used to be used to ban black people SA Universities.
It's not discriminatory, anyone meeting the qualifying criteria of being white is allowed in 🙂

Is it discrimination that a Scottish pensioner cannot get free bus travel in London but they can in Glasgow?

Of course it is.
A more sensible question would be is it fair discrimination?

So the qualification is non UK but EU passport holder or having done 3 years secondary school in Scotland. For example a person with an aussie passport who had done 3 years school in Scotladn would be entitled to the free secondary education.

Which is discriminatory. Scottish universities only get away with it because, unlike the rest of the EU, England, Wales & NI aren't separate states to Scotland.

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Ransos - so should the scottish pensioner get free bus travel in London then? the English pensioner does.

IanMunro - the criteria tho is not being scots - its having been to a scots school

So it's fair that someone in Carlisle has to fork out 9K, but someone in Edinburgh (or, as the article highlights, anywhere else in the EU EXCEPT Wales and England) does not for the same product?

No not fair at all zokes. Everyone in the UK should be entitled to a free education. Best vote in a better government next time

HTH

TJ I don't think anyone's arguing that it's unfair English/Welsh people (by which I mean secondary school attenders) don't get free tuition.

But it does seem odd that people who've never been to Scotland can also get it free.

Ransos - so should the scottish pensioner get free bus travel in London then? the English pensioner does.

IanMunro - the criteria tho is not being scots - its having been to a scots school

1. English pensioners don't get free bus travel in Glasgow. There is no inequality.

2. The criterion is not having been to a scottish school. There is no requirement for members of other EU countries to have done so.

:edit: can't be bothered when TJ is playing "Tartan Avenger" 😆

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Is that a Scot in the background?

Edinburgh Uni in picking the rich students shocka ??

OK, I do understand the Scottish school criteria. That makes sense.
I don't understand why other EU residents can get free education. What does that help? Not sure it's the universities, pretty certain it's not Scotland. Obviously it's not the rest of the UK, so why?

EU Law, pretty sure the Scots Gov is trying to close the loop hole as its costing us a fortune.

hilldodger - Member

:edit: can't be bothered when TJ is playing "Tartan Avenger"

🙂

Merely pointing out the nonsense spouted by the poor downtrodden English folk 🙂

There is clearly no discrimination in the aspect of someone being treated unfairly. You really think this was not subject to proper legal scrutiny befoer being made into law and many people have said they would challenge it in the courts but has anyone actually done so and succeeded? No. Why? - cos its not discriminatory in the sense of being unfair. Bleat all you like. Its fair and legal.

so- what bit of law are you going to use to challenge this then? Come on- you say its discrimination lets here some reasoning why?

The reason it is not discriminatory is is that anyone who meets the qualifying criteria can get this perk.

Cool, so everyone gets it...

A scots person who went to secondary in England could not, an English person who went to secondary in Scotland could do so.

But some don't...

Erm...

So it's discriminatory based on where you went to secondary school.

Merely pointing out the nonsense spouted by the poor downtrodden English folk

I don't think people are complaing about being hard done by. Just pointing out discrimination.

Legal yes, but it doesn't seem fair.

Why does someone from France not have to pay, but someone from England does?

Molgrips - its not discrimination in the sense of being unfair. Thats the point.

Why does someone from France not have to pay

I would have thought its discriminatory against UK (note, Scotland included) passport holders vs other EU countries unless otherwise qualified via high school.

Actually, it's more bloody stupid than discrimination with the EU thing. makes complete sense otherwise.

2. The criterion is not having been to a scottish school. There is no requirement for members of other EU countries to have done so.

Yup, and we have an agreement that Scots can go to other countries Uni's under the same deal.Seems like people jumping up and down because education is still sort of free up here.This is because of the fees in England, every school leaver in England would be applying,just to avoid paying in England. And the nightmare scenario....they might not leave after 4 years (and who could blame them.)
[b]exhibit a) Jeremy, Tandem[/b] (soz TJ 😀 )
There is an easy way to fix this; make HE free in England and Wales....

I do have to point out that the OP has a wee bit of previous where it comes to having an axe to grind about Scotland.