[Closed] Another driver rams a crowd

kerley

I think he was radicalised

Yep, but not by sinister people in the shadows - by the very media that is no doubt saying how outrageous it all is.

Given the pervasiveness of this radicalisation how has it not effected more people then?

Terrorist?
Righteous avenging right-wing angel?

Shouldn't matter right now. Those definitions are for a wider debate.

[b]Murderer[/b] of innocents is all that needs to be said about his actions.

Given the pervasiveness of this radicalisation how has it not effected more people then?

just hit a button

Anyway enough of this the mods dont stifle debate they stifle those who are ruining the debate for the majority

Sometimes its deliberate that posters are doing this and sometimes they cannot help themselves but this place would be a horrible mess without them.

Given the pervasiveness of this radicalisation how has it not effected more people then?

Because luckily most people stop at racism (which again the press and social media doesn't help) and don't take it as far as trying to kill others.

Murderer of innocents is all that needs to be said about his actions.

Agree. Let's say he had no political motive, does that make him less of a ****? Not in my book. (Unless he's actually insane, but there's no evidence of that so far.)

Loving the false equivalents stated in this thread. Seems lots of you have blown a fuse and cannot compute 😆 mind you, these are the same left wing loonies who just tried electing a Marxist Chancellor, not that it's done Venezuela's economy any harm. You guys are beyond the pale.

Where as you , and referencing a marxist chancellor in any thread, come across as lucid, agenda free and not at all just turning up here to have your daily rant about left wing loonies whatever the topic

We get it that you dont like lefties- do you prefer BNP Or UKIP these days *?

* he will never get the stewart lee reference so I telegraphed it for him

where is Chewy? or has he been banned as a precaution?

The day-to-day stuff like "negative use" is boilerplate text. We don't write that stuff, just hit a button and it auto-populates.

and I thought I was special!!

There's a few people that are special, TBH.

just turning up here to have your daily rant about left wing loonies whatever the topic

Moreover, not really the time and place for it really. Poor taste.

Murderer of innocents is all that needs to be said about his actions.

I don't think it's been confirmed that he's killed anyone yet (not trying to defend his actions BTW)

where is Chewy? or has he been banned as a precaution?

He's been outbid by enfht.

Slight hijack ...

MrSmith - Member
where is Chewy? or has he been banned as a precaution?

In the meantime I am monitoring you lot, I am watching you lot very closely, watching you (point eyes to eyes) ... 😈

Drac - Moderator

where is Chewy? or has he been banned as a precaution?

He's been outbid by enfht.

edit: are you lot skiving? 😀

are you lot skiving?

I'm not at work.

Drac - Moderator

are you lot skiving?

I'm not at work.

Another incident in Paris today. It really is becoming an almost daily reality.

This London attacker whilst probably not part of a wider organised terror movement / campaign is a Terrorist just the same. Personally its a pity he wasn't shot. I say hats off to the those that showed admirable restraint in waiting for the police to arrive.

irelanst - Member
Murderer of innocents is all that needs to be said about his actions.
I don't think it's been confirmed that he's killed anyone yet (not trying to defend his actions BTW)

Attempted murderer of innocents it is then. Hard to doubt that was his intention.

EDIT. Still believe that calling these people (whatever their motivation) terrorists does nothing more than legitimise their actions in some small way.

The Metro get an interview with a neighbour of the alleged attacker. Spot on.

Another neighbour said: ‘He had lived on the estate for a few years. He’s always been a complete c*** but this is really surprising.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/19/finsbury-park-suspect-named-as-father-of-four-darren-osborne-6720145/#ixzz4kTAva6DS

I recall back in day of "the troubles" the media were very correct in their choice of words. They would always refer to a "murder" rather than "assassination".

Funny how the imams are on the news now. Didn't see a single bloody one after Manchester and London atrocities.....

Funny how the imams are on the news now. Didn't see a single bloody one after Manchester and London atrocities.....

[url= http://www.newsweek.com/london-attack-manchester-funeral-imam-621193 ]*Polite cough*[/url]

I guess he thinks he will be given a medal and go home to a heroes welcome.
He is never going home.
His neighbours description is correct.

His neighbours description is correct.

Funny how the imams are on the news now. Didn't see a single bloody one after Manchester and London atrocities.

Then your choice of news media sourcing and spin/agenda/bull crap detector is lacking.
I'll not comment on your analysis of current events and looking at the bigger picture as personal attacks don't help anyone learn about modern mass media and hysteria.

Or it's the rights reaction to having its nose rubbed into diversity as I believe the New Labour quote went, what did they think would happen? There an entire generation remember and freequently quote the Enoch Powel rivers of blood speech. There's more of it out there than I think folk in polite circles would care to know, driven underground as Wobbliscot pointed out back there a way. Not fair to link to Brexit, I voted Brexit but for years had a potential muslim son in law at my dinner table (she ended up with a Hindu) the difference with them and the Mosque dwellers, they are just regular day to day fellas who don't define themselves by a tribal Religion. Honestly with the prior history of Finsbury I'm surprised some nutter hasn't done something like this before hand, I think it's a sad irony that the Isis switch to vehicle weaponry for mass attack has just educated the moron right with an easy method of tit for tat and so it is inevitably going to continue.

Hang on, I might need to close the thread for a few minutes, I've not brought enough popcorn for everyone.

.

the Mosque dwellers

You sound nice.

Another incident in Paris today. It really is becoming an almost daily reality.

Personally its a pity he wasn't shot. I say hats off to the those that showed admirable restraint in waiting for the police to arrive.

I thought he sounded like a racist apologist who has learnt just how far he can be RW on here and flirt with racism without getting banned

Or it's the rights reaction to having its nose rubbed into diversity as I believe the New Labour quote went, what did they think would happen? There an entire generation remember and freequently quote the Enoch Powel rivers of blood speech

Really, what % of the UK is Muslim? less <3 %. This guy had to drive across Britain to find a mosque to crash into , (despite being plenty of mosques in Cardiff) even the torygraph says nice things about the mosque these days. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/19/finsbury-park-mosque-radical-hotbed-transformed-model-community/. ( I lived there at the time it was being investigated, While I've no doubt that Hamza etc recruited terrorists there, the portrayal of the area in the press was amazingly different from the reality)

2.7% is hardly having your face rubbed in it.

Unless you read the constant stream of shit about scary Muslims in the right wing press or your BNP/ukip/edl Facebook feed pumps you full of righteous fury,

Of course rivers of blood etc misses the fact that our country and culture (like any other) is the product of never ending waves of immigration

If only we taught anthropology better people, might understand that culture, language and gene pools are dynamic, not static

I'm guessing someone in his local told him about all those extremists in Finsbury Park. Or maybe he read it in the Daily Mail or Sun.

The rivers of blood thing only has legs if certain sectors of the media keep droning on about it. Which they do.

slowoldman - Member

I'm guessing someone in his local told him about all those extremists in Finsbury Park. Or maybe he read it in the Daily Mail or Sun.

I think you've cracked it. According to Kerley he was radicalised by the [b]"very media that is no doubt saying how outrageous it all is". [/b] I found this to be a frighteningly simplistic interpretation but by introducing the "bloke down the pub" I think we have a realistic timeline.

The Sun + Bloke in pub = Murder.

I'm still puzzled as to how more people don't turn murderous but apparently "most people stop at racism". I haven't been to England in a few years but is everyone a racist there now? (I mean everyone apart from the very vocal handful of people on Singletrackworld who insist everyone else is racist).

jimjam - Member

I'm still puzzled as to how more people don't turn murderous

Same reason only a tiny fraction of muslims turn into terrorists. In both cases, you're dealing with the outliers

I haven't been to England in a few years but is everyone a racist there now?

. I haven't been to England in a few years but is everyone a racist there now?

Don't be silly, is only that 52% 😉

I see that the telegraph are now pushing the story that he's just a troubled family man, lone wolf etc

I'm still puzzled as to how more people don't turn murderous

Are you seriously puzzled that most people don't decide to murder other people based on what they see in media, hear from others etc,.?

It was your suggestion. Radicalized by our mainstream media. If he was, then that should be terrifying. If he wasn't ( I don't believe he was ) then saying he was radicalized by mainstream media is basically just a lazy way of compartmentalising him - typical sun reading, working class racist white guy. Probably heard about that mosque from a bloke down the pub too.

It seems about as insightful as saying "bloody muslims".

I'm laying in the sun drinking beer.
Mr White Crusader isn't.
I really must thank him for martyring himself on my behalf.
****.

It was your suggestion. Radicalized by our mainstream media. If he was, then that should be terrifying. If he wasn't ( I don't believe he was ) then saying he was radicalized by mainstream media is basically just a lazy way of compartmentalising him - typical sun reading, working class racist white guy. Probably heard about that mosque from a bloke down the pub too.

The continued unquestioned crap that comes out from the media normalises it/condones it for a lot of people and it may then trigger some to go onto acts such as this. And yes, the crap the media gets away with and the outcomes it produce are indeed terrifying.

Do you think the media is not having an effect/increasing islamaphobia?

Are you also still puzzled about not having 1,000s of murderers committing murder after reading the Daily Mail?

On my phone so apologies for not answering more thoroughly but, imo I don't think it's as black and white as that.
I think now more than ever people are simply choosing the flavour of news they want. Media plays a part but I can't say how much. Someone trying to murder Muslims probably reads the sun but I can't say to what degree the sun made him murder Muslims. Very little I would guess.

I can't say to what degree the sun made him murder Muslims.

"Made him," probably very little. "Encouraged him" though, probably quite a lot. At best, it would hardly have dissuaded him. The Express and The Mail have been stirring up racial hatred in all but name for quite some time.

On a practical not why do people hire vans to run people down? Why not just hire a car? If you're going to run someone down and drive over then then surely they will die whatever vehicle you use. And I would have thought a car would be much easier to maneuver,and faster, than and unwieldy big box van.

"Made him," probably very little. "Encouraged him" though, probably quite a lot. At best, it would hardly have dissuaded him. The Express and The Mail have been stirring up racial hatred in all but name for quite some time.

Nahhh.....the Express and the Mail are open to interpretation, they are actually very peaceful papers that in no way condone violence. Don't tarnish perfectly good papers with the actions of a mentally deranged lunatic.

[img] [/img]

I see what you did there.

referencing a marxist chancellor in any thread

..is entirely relevant. Vote Marxist and lose all credibility. Argue the toss over anything and you'll be forever reminded of your utter lunacy and complete disconnect from reality. Unless you feel strongly that a Marxist Chancellor is a good thing in which case start a thread and get flammed, you loon.

There is no relevance to his politics in relation to this event. NONE its not relevant just like your posts

you'll be forever reminded of your utter lunacy and complete disconnect from reality.

Cougar - Moderator
I can't say to what degree the sun made him murder Muslims.
"Made him," probably very little. "Encouraged him" though, probably quite a lot.

Okay so this is where I have an issue. Again if you compare ISIS propganda - material designed to radicalise, it discusses how to identify soft targets, how to stab people, it gives pointers as to which type of knife to use. It anticipates that the reader might be squeamish since we in the west have been removed from the food chain, and not used to slaughtering our own animals so the idea of slaughtering people is difficult for us, and so on.

Do you really think that the right wing papers in the UK are in any way encouraging of murder and mayhem in the ways that jihaist propaganda does? They are literally producing murder manuals, and their recruitment material features them burning people in cages, smashing their skulls with rocks, blwong people up with RPGs and cutting heads off and leaving them on spikes.

At best, it would hardly have dissuaded him.

People don't want to consume news from sources that dissuade them from deeply held beliefs though. They (left and right) want to subscribe to news and media that reinforces their world view. If your newspaper of choice starts telling you that you're a racist, you'll find another newspaper.
This takes me back to people on the left's complete oblivious attitude towards their part in polarising the debate between right and left. Calling everyone a racist or a nazi isn't conducive to debate. Especially when you lower the bar for what constitutes Nazi or racist to anyone who disagrees with a complete one world open border socialist utopia.

You can't force feed ideas and view points down people's throats, They'll just stick to their views and find another source of information.

Do you really think that the right wing papers in the UK are in any way encouraging of murder and mayhem in the ways that jihaist propaganda does?

People don't want to consume news from sources that dissuade them from deeply held beliefs though

This takes me back to people on the left's complete oblivious attitude towards their part in polarising the debate between right and left.

Calling everyone a racist or a nazi isn't conducive to debate.

Especially when you lower the bar for what constitutes Nazi or racist to anyone who disagrees with a complete one world open border socialist utopia

Hmmm - pretty sure this genius doesn't read the guardian...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-40347813

WTAF 😯

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-40347813
/p>

[edit - posts crossed in mid-air]

Do you really think that the right wing papers in the UK are in any way encouraging of murder and mayhem in the ways that jihaist propaganda does?

No, but that isn't really what I was saying. Rather, they're reinforcing the sort of hatred which ultimately compels a very small minority to do something extreme. And it only takes one.

People don't want to consume news from sources that dissuade them from deeply held beliefs though. They (left and right) want to subscribe to news and media that reinforces their world view. If your newspaper of choice starts telling you that you're a racist, you'll find another newspaper.

Sure, but there's two things here.

1) Openly telling racists etc "hey, you're right, and everyone agrees with you" isn't healthy, and

2) People passively read headlines on newsstands without buying newspapers. I read all the newspaper headlines on the newsstand today just by dint of wanting to buy a bottle of Lucozade.

You can't force feed ideas and view points down people's throats,

Oh, but you really can. Not overtly, but drip drip drip drip...

@kimbers closer to 5% I think, 2.8m out of 60m ? Population group grew from 1.8m to 2.8m over past 10 years. France is closer to 8%

EDIT yes 4.4% nationally but vast majority (all but 100,000 odd) live in England so 5% there

As per Casey report issue is lack of integration which in many cases is a deliberate choice