Forum menu
Right now no-one wants to be holding this parcel when the music stops, because they'll realise what a dog turd of a prize it is. A half decent opposition would have murdered them by now.
I suspect Labour are happy for the whole shiteshow to unravel after which they can get back into power and do almost whatever they like for 2/3 terms because there will in essence be no opposition once people realise what a shower of ****s the tories are.
The only thing preventing them from managing this so far is that May and co are so inept, they'll probably push themselves out even without any assistance.
I could well see a GE in the spring with the specific intent being that no-one actually wants to win it, because the best strategy is to make someone else deal with it and then take over once the place is in ruins.
. Not really sensing an anti-brexit swing in the Sun, Mail and Express as yet...
But this is surprising for the telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/exclusive-poll-shows-public-have-lost-faith-theresa-mays-handling/
I could well see a GE in the spring with the specific intent being that no-one actually wants to win it, because the best strategy is to make someone else deal with it and then take over once the place is in ruins.
There may even be some cross-bench nodding and winking from the grown-up backbenchers to keep the government from collapsing until exactly that moment, providing the perfect excuse to kick Brexit into the long grass.
But this is surprising for the telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/exclusive-poll-shows-public-have-lost-faith-theresa-mays-handling/
I still see this as more an attempt to install [s]Big Sam[/s] Boris to save us from relegation.
God. That's it. We're Sunderland. 🙁
Just to return to the thread subject - Mark Garnier's name appears to have dropped off the radar.
In any other organisation what would have happened to a senior employee who referred to his assistant as 'sugar tits' and then pushed said assistant into buying items from Dick's dildos or Vicky's vibros using his money (did she get receipts and did he claim on expenses?) while he waited outside?
Either dismissed or on first and final warning.
TM is incapable of providing political leadership; she also appears to be incapable of providing moral leadership - vicar's daughter and regular churchgoer.
What would happen to her reputation if she dismissed Johnson & Green - Patel is/should be a formality - with a clear statement that she is 'clearing out the stables'.
Her problem then would then be replacing them - Williamson's elevation is a clear example of what not to do.
Johnson is a busted political flush - proved to be incapable, liar, self-serving narcissist - with dwindling support in the party and at large.
Show some backbone woman - you might even earn some respect.
The Tories only hope is to offer N. Ireland and Scotland independence now.
That removes a large % of the disaffected and people who spend their time actively trying to dismantle the British state.
The resultant flap from the rest of the country will divert attention away from the current mess, and also gives an excuse to delay Brexit while the details were hammered out.
Or maybe another royal baby will do the job...
Or a funeral.
I wonder if she's waiting until they're over the North Sea before flushing any incriminating papers down the toilet?
they're only crossing the channel, she'd need substantially more than 20 miles of airtime to cover that lot up.
if shes not on the plane could be amusing
has she gone on the lam in uganda?
That would be controversial, her parents are Gujarati Indians who were ejected from Uganda during the Idi Amin years.
I'm beginning to wonder whether a tenner on Esther McVey for PM might be worth a punt....
Mini-Preston suspended from Labour Party and no longer working as Corbyn’s aide preparing him for PMQ’s
Patel - International Development Sectetary meeting foreign politicians whatever next ? She may go of course but far more troublesome to PM as a pro-Brexit campaigner on the back benches - that could even save her bacon 🙂
Worth noting many Indians are big supporters of Israel, thry had big pro-Israel rallies diring the last Gaza conflict. Having neighours intent on your destruction is a common uniting purpose
Patel - International Developmeny Sectetary meeting foreign politicians whatever next ?
Come on, you can do better than that.
Did you not notice the bit about completely disobeying the ministerial code, lying about when colleagues were informed, lying about the number and scope of the meetings, having no FCO officials there to advise and report, but mysteriously having the Conservative Friends of Israel Exec there instead.....
I suspect these 'irregularities' are way more than irregularities, something is being covered up here. Quack quack.
I'm also intrigued by some commentator's claims that May WAS informed about the 13th and 14th meetings but it was decided they'd hush them up, issue/take a slap on the wrists and now they've come to light, calling PP back from Africa to answer to them.
Sheer gross incompetence on May running her team, coupled to (IMHO) something going on among her colleagues again. You couldn't be this shit by chance, there has to be some design.
There's a correct way to meet with foreign dignitaries and an incorrect way, also there is correct protocol for informing the PM and an incorrect protocol. Serving ministers must be accompanied and sanctioned when meeting with foreign politicians, these are basic Foreign Office rules.
In both instances, Priti Patel was a tad cavalier. She's in breech of protocol and therefore is going to be subject to a disciplinary.
As for mini-Prescott, he's suspended pending an investigation. That's quite different, in that he hasn't been found to be culpable yet.
Patel - International Development Sectetary meeting foreign politicians whatever next ?
Haha did you miss the bit where she hid it all from the PM then lied multiple times to cover it up ? (as well as breaking numerous rules)
Her motorcade being followed by press helicopter back to downing Street.
This whole farcical circus could've been avoided if she'd just told the truth and failing that May sacked her days ago.
Another stunning own goal from the Tories
Patel has been dishonest from the start. It's no wonder Jamba can't see any problem with that.
Patel - International Development Sectetary meeting foreign politicians whatever next ?
That's my take on it. Seems far more likely that she was discussing something to to with her job rather than some kind of pantomime malicious plot.
She'll probably have to resign, which is fair enough, but I can't get excited about it, personally.
Rich_s - Member
I'm beginning to wonder whether a tenner on Esther McVey for PM might be worth a punt....
I’m wondering if my £100 I put on
[img] 
?region=0,0,600,600&width=320[/img]
Might get the PMs job..
As for Patel, well well.... another down the
[img] 
[/img]
That is the [s]Tory[/s] nasty party.
That's my take on it.
Mine too, if I ignore all the reasons why she screwed up.
outofbreath - Member
Patel - International Development Sectetary meeting foreign politicians whatever next ?
That's my take on
sigh ill post this again...
according to ex-FO staff
As someone who used to work for FCO a thread on why ppl need to understand that Priti Patels "mistake" far far worse than Boris' "gaffe" /12/ Boris gaffe was stupid but affects just one family & hopefully won't have repercussions & can be remedied. (Why he is FM another matter)
3/ but to Pritii Patel: firstly she committed a deliberate act that wld have seen any FCOstaff instantly sacked. But it's worse than that...
4/ to undertake planned secret meeting in foreign country outside of FCO required use of own communication-a clear security risk
5/ such a visit instantly opens up minister to blackmail not just because of her secret behavior but because she cld not use UK secutity....
6/ all FCO visits depend on securing/sweeping. As a individual Patel cld not do. this she was thus vulnerable to pressure/blackmail
7/ from reports we know that Israeli security reps present. Patel was this going in unprotected in talks with a separate state. It's not....
8/ no exaggeration to say such behavior is normally classed as close to spy/becoming a foreign asset for Patel to not be removed thus.....
9/ opens up view that such behavior ok/tolerated. If so UKas serious reliable power collapses, can every minister operate own ForeignPolicy?
10/ if so this will encourage all sorts of states to replicate such policy & so to end I return to the start....
11/ such behavior by FCOstaff is classed for above reasons similarly to spying-so instant dismissal. If Patel not sacked UK foreign policy..
12/...essentially says it can be brought individually minister by minister & we're totally ok with that. /ends (sorry for wordy thread!)
all of that said, SHE ALSO LIED ABOUT IT (more than once) TO THE PM & THE PUBLIC
which is why shes getting fired,
if shed have admitted it all straight away shed be watching Johnson fk up his career with the rest of us
instead shes at the centre of a media circus entirely of her own making
As I say, I can't get excited about it.
I doubt there was any malicious motive. It's doesn't seem like spying to me. Slippery slope arguments usually leave me cold.
That leaves lying. Well I'm kind of used to politicians lying, but given there's no direct quotes of the lies she told it's very hard for me to judge if she has lied so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
I don't have a problem with her resigning, but it's not exactly Suez, is it?
I doubt there was any malicious motive. It's doesn't seem like spying to me. Slippery slope arguments usually leave me cold.
Doesn't have to be spying. IDK if it was malicious or not (and if so malicious to who) or just massively incompetent, but either way it's absolutely shit and she will go as a result.
I'm normally the first to suggest Hanlon's razor, but in this case it's so incompetent I can't help but wonder if this is the exception that proves the rule.
but given there's no direct quotes of the lies she told it's very hard for me to judge if she has lied so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
here ya go OOB
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-international-development-secretary-priti-patel
(some of that has also since turned out to be untrue as she forgot to mention 2 further meetings, one of which her department had offically declined )
hardly suez, indeed (tho depends what she was discussing- unminuted so we'll never know)
just death by 1000s cuts from a government bent on self destruction
Of course its mana from heaven from the conspiracy theorists, Im sure Breitbart talkbacks etc will be rampant with 'evil jeweish plot to rule the world' nutjobs.
That leaves lying. Well I'm kind of used to politicians lying, but given there's no direct quotes of the lies she told it's very hard for me to judge if she has lied so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
Not so. The interview she gave is full.of lies for a start. She acted in breach of the ministerial code and in contravention of eg UK policy on the Gollan Heights. It's not as if it's a nice peaceful area where the wrong words are forgiven.
Excuse the mixed metaphor, but Teresa May's lack of balls is astounding. Her cabinet is completely out of control.
here ya go OOBhttps://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-international-development-secretary-priti-patel
From the link:
The FCO were aware of the visit while it was underway, but were not informed about it in advance.
She's got no meaningful power and the 'lies' are actually semantics.
It's not registering on my GAFometer.
[img] 
[/img]
If she was "Minister for invading Jordan and Egypt" and the Minister of Defence was with her I would probably care quite a lot. But she isn't.
As I say, I have no problem with her resigning, but spy? It's a joke.
Teresa May's lack of balls is astounding
What did you expect a lame duck government to be like?
What did you expect a lame duck government to be like?
ineffectual. This is full on melt down.
That said Northern Ireland hasn't had a functioning government for best part of a year, and literally nothing has changed
zippykona - Member
. Not really sensing an anti-brexit swing in the Sun, Mail and Express as yet...
But this is surprising for the telegraph.
[url] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/exclusive-poll-shows-public-have-lost-faith-theresa-mays-handling/ [/url]
I get the impression that the Telegraph supports a full on swan dive off the Brexit cliff edge. Theresa May isn't frothing enough for them by some margin.
the 'lies' are actually semantics.
No, they're actually not.
3 November
Patel told the Guardian that the foreign secretary knew about her trip and suggested the Foreign Office had been briefing against her. “Boris knew about the visit. The point is that the Foreign Office did know about this, Boris knew about [the trip],” she admitted telling the paper.The BBC’s diplomatic correspondent James Landale reported that Patel had undisclosed meetings in Israel without telling the Foreign Office. He quoted one official as saying that Patel had been “pushing to get her hands on the Palestinian Authority aid budget and we have been pushing back”.
6 November
Patel apologised after admitting she gave a misleading account to the Guardian of her trip to Israel. In a statement, he admitted holding 12 meetings, including three with Israeli politicians – Netanyahu among them.She said: “This quote [to the Guardian] may have given the impression that the secretary of state had informed the foreign secretary about the visit in advance. The secretary of state would like to take this opportunity to clarify that this was not the case. The foreign secretary did become aware of the visit, but not in advance of it.”
I'm normally the first to suggest Hanlon's razor
So we're broadly on the same page and normally you'd agree with me, just not this time. Fairy snuff.
“Boris knew about the visit. The point is that the Foreign Office did know about this, Boris knew about [the trip],”
That's not a lie. He did know about it - while it was going on. If she'd said "Boris knew about the visit before I went" that would be a lie. TBH I wouldn't GAF about that either. Maybe I just don't take 'international development' seriously enough.
Patel - International Development Sectetary meeting foreign politicians whatever next ?
That's desperate!
I believe that Jamby used to have one or two 'adversaries' on here who at least used to stick up for him on his politeness and reasoning (even if it is often faulty and/or deliberately one-eyed), but that comment really does knock the credible-o-meter down into the red!
Maybe I just don't take 'international development' seriously enough.
What ministry she was in charge of isn't important at all, It's the fact that essentially she'd conducted her own foreign policy alongside a lobbyist and then lied about it. You simply can't have Minsters doing that sort of stuff.
So we're broadly on the same page and normally you'd agree with me, just not this time. Fairy snuff.
Purely on the basis it shows such a level of incompetence in both going without the appropriate FCO backup, and then being so crap about covering it up again after.... I just can't believe anyone's that incompetent.
So, as Sherlock would say, once all other explanations are removed whatever remains, however 'unlikely' must be the truth.
Either way; whether it's sinister or just so ****ing incompetent it beggars belief, there's no way she can remain in post.
The best metaphor I could find at short notice for this Tory shower of shit.
[img] 
[/img]
By the way, the innocent golf bag represents the U.K.
it's ok just check the minutes from her meetings, that'll clear up what she was talking about....As I say, I have no problem with her resigning, but spy? It's a joke.
Oh we have no idea it's ok though because Gilad Erdan, Israel’s public security and strategic affairs minister probably did.
Whom according to the guardian ... In 2015 Erdan’s ministry was given powers including those to “guide, coordinate and integrate the activities of all the ministers and the government and of civil entities in Israel and abroad on the subject of the struggle against attempts to delegitimize Israel and the boycott movement”.
Which funnily enough was what that Israeli 'diplomat' thought he was doing when he was forced to leave the country- one of the MPs he wanted to take down was Alan Duncan
Who's now bookies 2nd favourite to replace Patel, how ironic would that be?
[img] 
[/img]
Though May is stupid enough to employ another Brexiter, despite signs that they are all quite incompetent 😉
Haha did you miss the bit where she hid it all from the PM then lied multiple times to cover it up ?
Ha. As if anyone would expect jambalaya to be at all bothered about a pro-Brexit politician lying.
By the way, the innocent golf bag represents the U.K.
Genuine 😆
This really is [i]brilliant[/i], isn't it.
The only slight worry I have is that this bunch of plonkers 'represent' us to other nations.
Let's hope the rest of the world (Trump-ite America excepted) still have enough respect for us to realise we actually can do a lot better.
who cares what she thinks about Brexit. There is a ministerial code she clearly broke it and clearly lied about who knew/when about her meetings.
the only real story is why May took so long to sack her
TBH Boris lie/error/mistake/stupidity about the iranian /British woman in jail in Iran is far more serious. the complete arrogant **** wont just say he got it wrong so she will most likely get a more severe prison sentence
your own hubris before someone elses liberty is pretty sick
We all know May is the weakest prime minister we are ever likely to see.
BBC News reporting Patel will resign rather than be sacked.
She walked through the front door at 1833...
Let's assume she's not incompetent. She seems a reasonably intelligent woman to me.
So the question is why? Unlikely to be spying because she was too obvious.
But how about feeding aid money to Israel in return for some large donations to various bodies which would fund her run for PM and another election?
That's my theory. 🙂
Minister Patel should stay.
People will still continue to vote for Conservative Party.
The objection are from the known people who normally object to Conservative Party/policy anyway. i.e. hyping up.
[b]p/s: Minister Patel has resigned ...[/b]