If in doubt, patronise or insult.
Great "debating" guys - I hope none of you are lawyers.
Great "debating" guys - I hope none of you are lawyers.
Think most people here put across pretty valid points actually.
Surf-Mat - Member
If in doubt, patronise or insult.Great "debating" guys - I hope none of you are lawyers.
Ok then Surf-Mat explain what BP could have done better AFTER the BOP and riser failed?
I think a lot of people here are keyboard warriors who just love to try and one up people behind the safety of their keyboards while they try and avoid doing their IT admin jobs.
Ok then Surf-Mat explain what BP could have done better BEFORE the BOP and riser failed?
Edited for you
The way this whole affair is being hyped up on US TV is incredible. CNN in the US (not the international one) when I was there during the 'Top Kill' week was about 95% oil-spill related. They had the live underwater feed permanently on-screen in the bottom right hand corner... And some of the people they were interviewing (including politicians) make Surf-Mat look like BP's biggest advocate. However, interest in it as an issue does seem to be very localised - and even in the gulf region there are plenty of people keeping quiet as the oil industry is a huge employer (bigger than the fishing industry as I understand it).
I particularly liked the Senate member calling for BP to be taken off the job to be replaced by the US military - widely known for their expertise in deep-sea technology.
Yes it's bad, and yes, it would be great if they'd fixed it quicker (and no-one had died), but as others have said we need to keep a sense of perspective on it (unlike the US media...)
Surf-Mat - Member
I think a lot of people here are keyboard warriors who just love to try and one up people behind the safety of their keyboards while they try and avoid doing their IT admin jobs.
Much like you?
I think a lot of people here are keyboard warriors who just love to try and one up people behind the safety of their keyboards while they try and avoid doing their IT admin jobs.
Well we're now well aware that you're not shy of being patronising and generalising either, so now that you're on a level with the people you're moaning about, how do you address the perfectly reasonable points, and what good does bitching about BP on a web forum do anyway?
I think a lot of people here are keyboard warriors who just love to try and one up people behind the safety of their keyboards while they try and avoid doing their jobs, me included
Edited for you
sucked in by the media much ?
Surf-Mat - MemberOk then Surf-Mat explain what BP could have done better BEFORE the BOP and riser failed?
Edited for you
NO! That is not the issue, there will be an investigation into why the BOP failed and what actually went wrong. What happened before the failure is unknown but the way BP handled after the oil spill is what they are getting a hard time about.
Ok, explain what they could have done before it then?
Ha! I'm currently sitting sorrounded by many engineers who have been in the oil industry for years. Get your facts right! I'm sure I'm not the only on on here that is not in an ADMIN job.
You just lost that debate!
Please everyone list your information sources:
Standard answers include -
I know a few engineers
My uncle works in oil
Hey - perhaps I know people in the oil industry (a rig designer working in engineering for shell, oil industry share traders, etc)? Perhaps I did an engineering degree with a chunk of oil industry content? Perhaps I was a geotec engineer for a while?
Perhaps I don't rely on the media and then use my "opinion" to try and belittle someone else.
There is a theme that runs across all website forums - a few people that love to comment on everything with their well formed "opinions." These people are very sure of themselves or so it appears. But find out a little more and there's always some deep seated issue - a hated job, a problem(s) at home, a issue with health, etc.
I guess as it's the internet it attracts these slightly geeky oddballs. And because it's the internet they can be sure they won't get "found out."
Every forum has them - some even become mods and take it to extremes. They'll find someone that irks them (usually a "doer" that actually gets off his ar5e and does stuff in real life) and argue against everything they say - from dissing their car, to their choice of bike wheel.
Without any exception, these people are a little bit lonely and a little bit sad.
But hey ho, they still pat themselves on the back when they think they've "won" an internet debate argued using a truckload of BS.
you are kaesae and i claim my 5 pound !
There is a theme that runs across all website forums - a few people that love to comment on everything with their well formed "opinions." These people are very sure of themselves or so it appears. But find out a little more and there's always some deep seated issue - a hated job, a problem(s) at home.
Yes, you're falling right into that catagory, well identified!
Surf-Mat you some yourself up perfectly there!
If you have the answers phone BP up I am sure they would be happy to listen to you!
Surf-Mat you some yourself up perfectly there!
As do you - someone that can't spell that complex word "sum."
And ck does the same with his own "version" of the hugely tricky word "category."
LOL at self-pwnage reaching new levels.
And ck does the same with his own "version" of the hugely tricky word "category."
Well spotted mate, indeed I made a typo and you found it, give yourself a gold star and a tick 😉
really clutching at straws trying to insult peoples spelling now. never mind 17 mins and im off to ride instead of talking about it!
Who else in here works in the industry out of interest?
I suspect suirf-mat couldn't even beging to fathom quite how many safety procedures are designed into oil and gas facilities. If the BOP hadn't failed you'd have barely even noticed it. In fact a rig sank in almost identical circumstances of south america erlier this year, the valve closed as it should have done and it didn't even make the evening news.
Just keep digging that hole!!! Its huge now!!
cynic - self ownage? Are you a complete retard? I don't need to ask really do I?
Trail - I've already been for a 12 miles MTB ride and a 5 mile run today. Thanks for asking though you craaaazy "doer."
sand control engineer for a large service company.
me: health & safety advisor for Aker Kvaerner, specialising in fluid transfer systems, particularly LNG. My opinion of/information relating to BP stems from my involvement with them for 5 years, mainly through site inspections and and project design specifics for a variety of topside installations.
you?
While you're all worrying about this, some people need advise about which shaving brush to buy; lets help more and criticise less.....
sorry crikey - dont shave
And the keyboard warriors keep on coming thick and fast...
MS - you're a STUDENT that constantly tries and fails to sell kit. You're opinions are as valid as my own ideas on football tactics.
Yoss - fair enough but your point was immediately questioned and possibly proved wrong by another STWer... Plus you only attempted to "argue" against a single point and conveniently glossed over the rest of the issues. A triumph of selective "debating" and a tactic used by many a forum warrior.
MS - you're a STUDENT
only when hes not working for a large oil company !
🙂
Chill, lads - noone's keeping score.
We all know I'm far more awesome than the lot of you, but it's not my place to judge 😉
Yoss - fair enough but your point was immediately proved wrong by another STWer...
no it wasn't. you need to re-read the thread my dear old thing.
EDIT: I wasn't particularly interested in your other points, so I thought I'd just talk about what I know. HINT HINT 🙄
me: environmental & technical engineering services to the Oil & Gas and Chems & Pharms industries.
Don't do upstream work (ie production), but plenty of work on environmental controls, regulatory permitting and corrective actions in the downstream side (refining, distribution, retail).
Work with the HSE systems for several of the oil majors. They are all very safety obsessive compared to what anyone in a "normal" job would anticipate.
BP's record in the states looks pretty bad over the last few years, its true.
Sorry, have you got the memory of a goldfish?
[b]looks[/b] pretty bad
in the [b]states[/b]
there's a reason for my choice of words, see if you can work them out
as others have fleshed out, there are reasons for both, perhaps you didn't read them?
Mat, let me point out something here. You are the other half of the argument with these so-called forum warriors. So really, you are just the same.
The real trick is to let go, and not get dragged into the mire of slagging people off and trying to score points. It's just not worth it. Keep it happy and let the knobs be wrong. You can be great company as long as you don't get sucked into this stuff 🙂
attacking a student - quite funny really, guess you weren't one then!
FAIL!
I read them all.
http://blog.riskmetrics.com/esg/2010/04/bp-spill-safety-record.html
[i]Environmental and safety record
In recent years, BP has had one of the worst safety records of any oil company. Two US BP oil refineries accounted for 97 percent of all “egregious willful violations” issued by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to any offenders from June 2007 to February 2010, according to an analysis by the Center for Public Integrity watchdog group. The two refineries are located in Texas City, Texas and Toledo, Ohio. According to OSHA’s database, the citations included 760 “willful egregious citations”, 69 “willful citations”, and 30 “serious citations.” In the report, Jordan Barab, deputy assistant secretary of labor at OSHA, said “The only thing you can conclude is that BP has a serious, systemic safety problem in their company." [71][72][/i]
Apparently I'm an ill informed ranting idiotic tw4t that know nothing though...
MS - Materials Engineering, Swansea 1994-97 - carry on ranting little man.
Mat, you've become a WELL informed ranting idiot.. take a step back!
Surf-Mat - Member
cynic - self ownage? Are you a complete retard? I don't need to ask really do I?
I do need to ask what on earth you are trying to say in that post.
Looks like i need to explain. You are getting a proper roasting from all sides on this thread after wandering about the place arguing with whoever will listen and telling everyone how great your life is etc.
I'd call that classic self-pwnage, and asking me if I am a retard hardly deflects my point. This internet forum arguing really makes me laugh sometimes.
[img] 
[/img]
YEAH.
At the moment we are at the 'warning' stage. Lets not go any further.
Hang on al - so would I be right in thinking you're just taking the opportunity to have a pop (just like a number of others keyboard warriors) because I have somehow upset you? Please point out a SINGLE example of me telling everyone how great my life is on this thread? There isn't one is there?
You've just taken it upon yourself to carefully look for opportunities to have a go because you are sat behind a keyboard and have found someone that actually does stuff rather than just bleating about it. Your username speaks volumes - the "crazy" forum cynic who loves to be confrontational.
What are you like in real life? What do you do? I can take very educated guesses.
Sorry Mark but if you can't stand a little debate then ban away. I really couldn't give a stuff if you think this thread requires a warning.
It's the internet, not primary school.
Cheerio.
Matt - for the very last time:
BP is a global company and has a very good reputation for health & safety in the industry. OSHA have been on BP's case in the states since the Texas city explosion.
You can choose to ignore what a number of oil and gas safety professionals are telling you on this thread if you wish, none of us have an axe to grind with you (well, i certainly don't). I have absolutely no desire to defend BP or any other company if critisism about their safety management is justified. In this case it isn't.
oh and listen to molgrips, he is talking more sense than anyone else
Matt I didn't say you'd said anything about your life on this thread did I? I was referring to other posts.
As for having a pop, my point is you come across as pretty much like the folk you are having a go at on here. Would you really need to have a go at them if you were such a "do-er"? You've upset the mods now - QED.
In real life I am not as argumentative for sure, it's less fun. And I've been pretty lazy recently for sure.
So do I come across as a BP executive somehow?! Now that is odd.
Fair enough on the other points and TBH, I love a good debate, even if no one agrees with me 😉
