[Closed] An end to A&A / Friday Kylie please

Al - don't patronise me. Its laughable - you accuse others of patronising you while you patronise me.

Don't patronise me you idiot. Like you'd behave how you did on mleh in real life? You would not be alive.

😆

Ooh I'm sooo frightened!

Ye Gods. Sort yourself out mate.

[img] [/img]

Sorry TJ - I have a life and I've told you what I think and so have others. If you really need to prove your point/win/satisfy yourself that you were correct all along and once again drag a thread into the pits of eternal dullness, then that is a rather sad personality trait and unfortunately affects others on this site too.

Why don't you take a step back, re-read what has been posted over the several threads on this matter and have a few moments of introspection - then remove your head from your arse and try and join in the spirit of things. Who knows, you might even secretly enjoy it.

robdob - Member

It very funny to be accused of a lack of sense of humour by those who have missed a joke - that was clearly there if you wnated to see it - as shown when I accepted the MillieTant picture as me.

Please TJ, for your own sake stop it. Everyones seen past it, the excuse isn't working. You are embarrassing yourself now.

Look at thh timing of the posts.

I accepted the accolade of Millie Tant hours ago. Clearly accepting that the position I had adopted was well OTT and I know that I adopted it for comic purposes.

Perhpas accepting this you would see how you have completely misunderstood me - but that would mean you have to revise your opinion

No backtracking from me - look at the timescale.

Woody - you try doing that. You have missed the point by a mile

Look at the time of the post where I accepted the label "Millie Tant."

tj best get on to the office old boy we have pics of miss pendalton on the home page.

I've got to hand it to the humourless old fart though, he has brightened up my boring Friday afternoon.

Shame this had to end up being about the OP.

Just to pipe up here, not much to add except:
- mountain biking is a male-biased sport (in terms of numbers of participants). Hence many forums about said sport tend to be male-biased. Unfortunately, as we all know, more than 3 men together generally results in mild to moderate sexism, whether intentional or not, whether talking about women directly or not.
- just what is the issue over 'we must have more women on the forum'? It's nice to have diversity (as in people, not the Idol band) on the forum, and it's great that this isn't just a sausage fest - generally the female members of the forum come out with more interesting and useful views anyway; equally they seem to spend less time on the forum (if we compare, say, TSY's post volume with that of c_g, for 2 random examples), but it's not like we should implement a positive discrimination process to ensure we have a fair and equitable distribution of genders on the forum. Unless the next proposal is that we advertiser the stw forum on AdWords or similar, with 'no longer rampantly sexist!!!!' on it, it's a somewhat folorn hope. To be honest, the more overwhelming aspect of the forum can be the amount of knowledge sometimes imparted in belittling tones to those who don't know quite so much.
- It's A&A. It includes men and women; some women partake in it. Personally I don't look at it because I'm not particularly fussed.

And I think that's the thing people are struggling with. Most people either like it or don't care. This vitriolic loathing is something quite bizarre...

I'm offended my men in skirts so I don't open any Scottish threads can't you just avoid anything that might offend your beautiful yet fragile self 😉

Clearly accepting that the position I had adopted was well OTT and I know that I adopted it for comic purposes.

That's the most pathetic, after-the-fact, too late and completely unconvincing getout clause attempt, that I've ever come across.

Still agree with you, of course. 😆

Please, can someone ban me from here!

Elf - you obviously did read the bit when TJ referred to the people that didn't agree with him as 'insecure little boys'. He is normally quite articulate, but not on this thread.
He wants A&A abolished. Can't see that he's persuaded anyone this afternoon...

Random...... huh!

Ooh ooh, are you going to post a picture of that Panamanian high jumper (?)standing in her pants looking at herself in the mirror that you always used to post on the A&A thread ?

🙂

Could do actually. Thing is, I'd post it because I think she's a stunningly beautiful woman with a body sculpted by athletic endeavour, which I thought was the point of A+A. Whilst I may have my own carnal desires etc, I don't know the woman, so my appreciation of her is on a pretty shallow level. I admit I've probbly objectified her. But she consented to posing in such a way, so I don't have much of an issue with posting her pic. I think the problems start when people start making crude and vulgar comments about someone. Think if it was your mate's sister/daughter etc. Would you be quite so vulgar? Probbly not. What if it were your own sister/daughter? Would you want other men talking about her in such a degrading manner? It's about respecting someone as a person.

I have no real issue with people looking at pictures of pretty men and women, it's mostly quite harmless really. In this respect, I am at odds with some of TJ's views.

I still think he deserves more respect though. I respect TJ more than most on here, simply because in my opinion he commands such respect by behaving in a more honourable and respectful manner himself.

So there. You can all get lost cos I don't care any more. I've said me piece so that's that, as far as I'm concerned. 🙂

Bulb end 😉

Can I just pick up on something Elfin' said?

What I do find far disturbing is the comments.

There's a difference, I believe, between comments which are clearly meant to be a joke, and genuine misogyny.

Face to face, this is usually easy to differentiate. You're talking (usually) to people who know you, and there's a lot of non-verbal communication going on.

In text, you lose a lot of that subtext. It's very easy, therefore, to misinterpret comments and take people seriously when to their mind they're being not just humorous but downright absurd.

For instance, if I made a "women, what are they doing out of the kitchen anyway" comment to [i]anyone[/i] who knows me, be that male or female, it'd be safe ground becuase they know that my actual world view is so far removed from that as to render it not so much funny as out-and-out ludicrous. Now, take that out of context, the same comment on an Internet forum and I'm suddenly Gene Hunt personified.

Where I'm going with this is, I'd expect that the vast majority of "objectionable comments" expressed on here, with a couple of noteable exceptions, really aren't meant to be taken seriously. They're not supposed to be sexist, they're supposed to be ridiculous.

Not that I'm arguing that this makes it ok exactly; that's a whole other debate. Just that perhaps it's worth taking into account before automatically reaching for the Outrageometer.

Is "A&A" correct grammar, though?

"Aesthetic" doesn't mean "good looking", does it?

More correctly I think it would be "Aesthetically pleasing and athletic", or possibly just "AA": Athletic Aesthetics. That's better I think.

Everything has "aesthetic" qualities of some sort, even TJ's hairy arse.

What's Alcoholics Anonymous got to do with this?

as we all know, more than 3 men together generally results in mild to moderate sexism

I'm reasonably sure that this is not an exclusively male trait.

(Sexist)

Elf - you obviously did read the bit when TJ referred to the people that didn't agree with him as 'insecure little boys'.

He's probbly right though ultimately, if you think about it. Maybe some folk want to have a think about that, and start being more honest with themselves. Let's be honest now. I think sometimes it actually serves as a vehicle for some to try to [i]prove[/i] their masculinity. I notice no-one has responded to my challenge of 'TJ must be gay'...

He wants A&A abolished.

That's his call, and one for the mods to consider. I'm not bothered one way or the other really. I can lust after pretty women perfectly well on my own, without some silly thread on an internet forum....

Shame this had to end up being about the OP.

It's always about the OP when the OP is TJ.

Isn't anyone else bored of these arguements? I am completely aware of the irony in me adding to this but I'd just like to say that the level of extrodinary patheticness being displayed by a significant proportion of the community is quite frankly, sad.

I notice no-one has responded to my challenge of 'TJ must be gay'...

I think perhaps that's a succinct example of the sort of comment I was talking about. I suspect the poster believed it was self-evidently ludicrous but evidently it isn't. I read it to be a self-depreciating 'playground' insult, the implication being "I'm being childish when saying this." It might as well have read, "TJ smells of poo and wee."

I could be wrong, of course. That's just how it read to me. I may have misinterpreted it (which is kinda the point I'm trying to make).

I wish someone would objectify me, once in a while.....

🙁

Mr Woppit - look at the timing of the post where I accept that I am Millie Tant. Noting after the fact about it.

Fat max - calling folk that wasa part of the deliberately totally OTT nature of the position I adopted. I am sorry if it offended you. It was intended to be so OTT as to be funny. Sort of Millie Tant ish I had a big laugh when you posted that as I thought you had seen that that was exactly my intent - to be Millie Tant.

Genuinely I am sorry that some have been offended by my rantings on here. Its a shame that some of you take yourselves so seriously that you failed to see that I was adopting a totally ridiculous over the top attitude to make the point and to allow some humour into it. I thought that was more obvious than it apparently was.

My actual views are much as Mrs Toast put it and a few others - that the A&A thread is childish and rather sad.

So guys - how about accepting that I used a totally OTT rant to make a point. Don't take yourselves so seriously

So guys - how about accepting that I used a totally OTT rant to make a point. Don't take yourselves so seriously

dear oh dear tj you sad git 😆

thats a new low mate.

Cougar - Member

Can I just pick up on something Elfin' said?

What I do find far disturbing is the comments.

There's a difference, I believe, between comments which are clearly meant to be a joke, and genuine misogyny.

Face to face, this is usually easy to differentiate. You're talking (usually) to people who know you, and there's a lot of non-verbal communication going on.

In text, you lose a lot of that subtext. It's very easy, therefore, to misinterpret comments and take people seriously when to their mind they're being not just humorous but downright absurd.

A very good point and one I forgot here.

to their mind they're being not just humorous but downright absurd.

Is exactly what I was doing here but some folk totally missed

And with tat I am off to the pub.

Have a virtual pint on me chaps!

This can't be real, can it? 😆

I knew that no matter how I played it I would n#be mocked, attacked and slagged off. By totally overplaying it like a pantomime villain at least there was some humnour there for me and for others who could see it - and clearly quite a few folk did see it from their answers and posts.

FWIW, I've no real interest in the pics threads - only because I think they've been done to death now, and it's true that we end up with (a minority of) "FHM" content at some point. That doesn't offend me either, but I don't actually want it on here.

I have NO moral objection to the staged shots of sports people at all; can't say I see exploitation there (they're not desperate and they're prob well paid; if you count those paid milions to wear specific tennis outfits etc, then incredibly so). The "natural" ones, I'm not so sure. I do seem to remember that US polevaulter (Alsion thingy) was quite traumatised by her internet "fame" - and was well under 18 when the pics were taken at some high-schools event.

If I were Mark/Chipps I'd allow the threads but [b]PROMISE[/b] a single warning then a ban to anyone posting inappropriate content (better still, post in their profile that they've been banned, and why). That way Teej can keep himself busy but actually achieve something, and "they" wouldn't even have to police it - he would.

Maybe, everyone else was just being totally OTT for humour too... 😉

[b]TandemJeremy[/b]
Its a shame that some of you take yourselves so seriously...

Hello pot, this is kettle, message over...

that the A&A thread is childish and rather sad.

It's either childish [b]or[/b] it's objectifying women, can't be both - children (by definition) are pre-puberty, and don't think that way.

<Pedant hat off />

no offence taken TJ - i look forward to a Bike Chain ride/pint at some stage, where i will try and persuade you that A&A is a bit of harmless fun, and that Friday Rihanna is well worth a look too.
thanks for the entertainment all, its been a blast.

TSY 😉

Is Friday Rihanna on then?

Do we need to apply for planning permission or something?

no, but TJ can play the role of the angry planning development officer, when we start it without his permission 😉

TJ where have I patronised you?

Elfinsafety - Member

Ooh I'm sooo frightened!

Ye Gods. Sort yourself out mate.

I wasn't meaning I'd do anything, my point was that YOU ARE A LYING HYPOCRITE and if you behaved the way you do online in real life, much like TJ, someone or other (definitely not me, I'd be long gone) would flatten you at some point.

Nice transparent attempt to turn it round to me as ever. I thought you might be OK after you quietly half-fesed up to having been a dick online, clearly not.

I say we go back to Strato's friday motorbike thread. Nothing like a bunch of grown men drooling over some nice chrome and rubber.

TJ increasingly reminds me of the reason why this Harry Enfield sketch was so funny.

I take it you have no aspirations to be a comedian in real life - I think you'd find that having to tell your audience your being funny and ironic means you'd have a fairly short career.

[img] [/img]

on the STW homepage.
this sort of thing should be outlawed

I respect TJ more than most on here, simply because in my opinion he commands such respect by behaving in a more honourable and respectful manner himself.

Clearly Elfin you've been reading the wrong threads. May I suggest you look at the websites thread and count how many time TJ claims people who work in the media/marketing/design industry lead worthless, good for nothing lives.

Or even just go back over this thread and read some of the abuse he gives out.

I've been for a quick ride, have I missed anything? 😆

No TJ, it shouldn't be stopped. For a tolerant liberal, this has to be the most intolerant request I've ever seen. Where would you like it to stop? There are people on here I don't particularly like. Ban 'em! There are threads I disagree with. Ban 'em!
You don't like it, don't open it. Simple. For someone who tries to demonstrate a certain amount of intelñligence and maturity, you've failed badly. Failing to convince people of your argument, no problem, just call them stupid.
The only reason I'm supporting the A&A thread is people want to disrupt it. If you had let it die quietly, as it was doing, it wouldn't be twisting your knickers so much now.
Get a grip and grow up, you're behaving like a spoilt child.

stumpy01 - Member

I wish someone would objectify me, once in a while.....

+1. And if I could, someone other than the other half, too.

I had two young ladies discussing my bottom only the other night. 😳

I can't say I was particularly displeased....

Sure they weren't calling you an arse? 😆

Clearly Elfin you've been reading the wrong threads.

Nope. I've bin reading the same ones everyone else has. TJ has my respect. And that's all that matters, as far as I'm concerned.

No TSY they were actually saying how nice it was, if you really must know.

My bottom was once favourably discussed by a group of women in a bar in New York. I was an object of public scrutiny. Can't say the ordeal has had a lasting damaging effect on me, though.

I can't be arsed reading all of this.

Did someone mention censoring the internet, or just the bit that TJ lives in?

*makes mental note to ride behind elfin at next supersexyswinleygathering*

😀

Can't be bothered reading this, but I object to censoring of this forum unless hugely offending.
The restrictions on language and topics would make this a place not worth visiting or contributing to.

The main thing I find offensive on this forum is TJ's blinkered view on life. I know he's scotch, but does he need to be so dour?

😀

I object to TJ trying to ram his opinion down everyone's throat again. 😐

I can't be arsed reading all of this.

Did someone mention censoring the internet, or just the bit that TJ lives in?

Don't bother to read it...I'll summarise it for you.

[img] [/img]

Is a sexy picture in itself sexist?

anyway...

The Kylie Clause/A&A stays.

inappropriate images and comments will be dealt with severely.
Have a good weekend folks 🙂

Thing is though right, wether you agree with TJ or not, he does at least have the balls to voice his opinions and stick by them, and offer justification for them

But he hasn't addressed any of the questions I asked him on Page 2 of the A&A thread.

If it was pornography and lechery we were after we would be looking elsewhere wouldn't we?

The Kylie Clause/A&A stays.

I don't even open the threads but I think free speech and common sense just won out over puritanical pious prats. I can go home happy. 😆

TandemJeremy - Member
And you wonder why women don't come on the forum much

I read as far as this post and didn't need to read any further.

As a woman, pictures of scantily clad women aren't what puts me off posting on the forum. Rather it's when threads degenerate into endless "Only my opinion is right" ping pong matches - the recent(to paraphrase) "what website for £600" comes to mind.

I'm not bothered by pictures of women in their knickers. I'm old and wise enough to have sussed that men don't think the same way as I do so when I read a suggestive comment I may not like it, but I recognise that's how some men are and I stop reading.

As for any "Think of the children" sentiments I'm afraid the genie's been out of the bottle for far too long for that argument to be a reason to ban A&A.

Not as articulate response as I would wish, but it's been a long day and I'm now going to leer at George Clooney to wind down.

Lets all do the WNBR this year and post pictures of ourselves.

Would that be OK? 😀

I read as far as this post and didn't need to read any further.

As a woman, pictures of scantily clad women aren't what puts me off posting on the forum. Rather it's when threads degenerate into endless "Only my opinion is right" ping pong matches - the recent(to paraphrase) "what website for £600" comes to mind.

I'm not bothered by pictures of women in their knickers. I'm old and wise enough to have sussed that men don't think the same way as I do so when I read a suggestive comment I may not like it, but I recognise that's how some men are and I stop reading.

As for any "Think of the children" sentiments I'm afraid the genie's been out of the bottle for far too long for that argument to be a reason to ban A&A.

Not as articulate response as I would wish, but it's been a long day and I'm now going to leer at George Clooney to wind down.

That's lovely darling, well done.

wether you agree with TJ or not, he does at least have the balls to voice his opinions and stick by them, and offer justification for them

True, but it is only an internet forum; so it's not really that hard to do and it's not like there is a personal risk to doing so. It more strikes me that he just might not have that much on in the real world.

Hehee! I wonder what TJ will have to say about The Sponsors post?

[i]wether you agree with TJ or not, he does at least have the balls to voice his opinions and stick by them[/i]

No, he just likes to argue and try to bait people. I always imagine TJ jumping up and down in front of his pc shouting if people don't agree with him while demanding facts and figures.

Is a sexy picture in itself sexist?

Not nececelery. Sexism is the attitude or implication that one sex is superior to another, in the same way that racism is the implication that one race is superior to another.

What has been proven, is that this thread is superior to the actual A+A one. Proving that TJ is win again.

Got any crisps, TJ?

Can someone tell me which the pictures it is in that thread they consider to be sexy?

I think nobody is really interested in looking at A&A pictures. People just want to post them to troll TJ.

If you had a thread all about hoovering, ironing and pink frilly objects, you wouldn't want to add a discussion about beer and farting to make any male readers feel more welcome would you? No....hang on....that doesn't sound right.....

The main thing I find offensive on this forum is TJ's blinkered view on life. I know he's scotch, but does he need to be so dour?

He's actually English, which is all that needs saying about him.

...

😉

I dont approve of it personally but , given the thread title, it is very easy to avoid.

I like the idea of TJ taking an "extreme" position on an issue for dramatic/comedic effect. The only thing that would surprise anyone is TJ replying to any contentious thread with "Not bothered either way really...". Or just not replying to a contentious thread - he seems to be on here 24/7 much of the time.

Wasn't going to post but decided I have to even though I can't be ar**ed to read this! Get a grip Friday Kylie will not put women off coming to this forum and if it does, well so be it. It's easily avoidable. It's like trying to stop your husband looking at porn it's never going to happen .. plus is it really an issue?

Trying to stop men looking at pictures of women is pointless. I don't really mind the pictures if the girls doing their sport and the sexiness is incedental. I do wonder why it is that women sportspeople find it necessary to do "glamour-like" shots but there you go. Often A&A degenerates into just tits and arses which is a bit "13 year old boy" Personnally I find threads like the Sue Perkins one more offensive.

Yeah, but do you actually complain about stuff you find offensive, or do you just tut and do nothing?

I admire TJ for his confidence in standing up for what he believes in, even in the face of great adversity. A quality many on here lack; they will only speak up if they feel they are being backed up by others. Safety in numbers. Quite cowardly really.

13 year old boy

The greatest mistake women ever make is thinking that normal men ever get beyond this age mentally.

I'm sure at some level it does keep women away from the forum, whether that is a problem or not is up for the owners to decide.

I find it a bit of a mystery to be honest, posting the same photos week in week out. I don't think it's necessarily harmless either, Allison Stokke is a case in point.

In most aspects of modern life you can avoid going to places which you find offensive. If you find lap bars offensive you stay away. If you avoid threads about tyres offensive, likewise. A&A is telegraphed, you can avoid clicking, or you can be just like the one who walks into the lap bar and rants about how offended you are.....

I find lots of things offensive but people have the right to do them if no one is being damaged, and I doubt if Jessica Ennis is upset that a few fat old IT farts think she's fit.

I heard it spoken before but guess this proves it, the internet is serious business!

Zulu-Eleven - Member

A simple message for TJ, Elfin, and all their little left leaning friends:

You can stick your CCTV, Police State, wheelie bin Stasi, DNA, WMD, “Social Cohesion”, benefits for all, guilty until proved innocent, don’t do that it’s illegal now, can’t say that, ID cards for all, where are you going, what have you been saying/doing/reading, can’t photograph that, how very dare you, golliwog banning, we know where you live, we’re watching you Soviet Utopia up your arses. Sideways.

There, that pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue really!

Is that you John Wayne?

A quality many on here lack; they will only speak up if they feel they are being backed up by others.

He also never shuts up, backs down or gives up. There are several others on here with with a similarly high level of persistence.

The end result is that there are certain topics which simply aren't worth discussing on here, because you'll simply be swamped with inane and repetitive arguments, posted at an incredible rate. I'd say TJ is all for speaking up, so long as it's him doing the speaking, or someone whose opinion he endorses. Ultimately that kind of behaviour creates an environment where people don't speak up.

As a (male) relatively new poster here - yes A&A can be a little bit lame and tacky sometimes - but no more that the "show me your [i]enter name of bike here[/i] threads.

Posting on internet forum for a sport where most participants are male and lots of the talk is gear freakery is always likely to be a largely male activity.

For a bloke to appoint himself the defender of women from evil and offence seems pompous and condescending.

To continue to do so repeatedly when everyone has heard his point of view suggests a desire to annoy or troll. Say it once on the thread - then walk away with dignity.

The thing about freedom of speech/artistic freedom, it you get to hear and see things you may not like.

If the siteowners/editors don't like it they can stop it, if other people don't like it they don't have to look at the thread.

For those of you furiously googling Alison Stokke:

[url= http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article1857190.ece ]

Her unwanted fame as an internet sex symbol can be traced to a fan who posted a photograph of the athlete stroking her brunette ponytail with her pole resting on her shoulder on an online message board about American football. The picture was e-mailed by a reader to Matt Ufford, a New York sports blogger, who posted it on his site, WithLeather.com, under the headline: “Pole Vaulting is Sexy, Barely Legal.”

Whilst some athletes are happy to pose for 'sexy' pics, others don't actually want to play this media game. Which s of course their choice to make. And they should be respected for this. So, while posting pics of attractive young women might seem just a bit of 'harmless fun', it would be wise to consider all implications of such actions, and the dignity of the object of such 'harmless fun'. Would you be so blasé if it were your daughter?

The attention has become so great that Miss Stokke, 18, now locks the doors and avoids leaving her house alone. Her father, a lawyer, checks the internet every night for potential stalkers. She has even had to enlist the services of a media adviser to fend off hundreds of requests for photographs and interviews.

If a person willingly puts themselves in the public eye, then they must expect the consequences. But when they are thrust into the limelight against their own wishes, isn't this wrong?

oh look more women on tj's offensive to women thread that really couldnt give a toss 😆