Forum menu
I watch QI last night and was astounded at some statistics they gave out about the US:
I hope I'm remembering all the facts correctly, I was speechless / shocked:
The US has more of it's citizens in prison as a % of the population than any other country IN HISTORY.
The US has over 2.3 MILLION in prison
Prisoners manufacture ALL US army bullet proof vest, helmets and loads of other stuff basically slave labour.
You cannot import any goods into the US made in prison at the country of origin. (some toehr rules for imports as well but I cannot remember them
The "3 strikes you are out" rule means people have been given life sentences for crimes as absurd as shoplifting a few chocolate bars
There are more black 17 year olds in prison than college
If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.
I apologise for any facts that maybe wrong but some quick googling today seems to prove the figures are if not 100% correct not far off.
See article belwo that backs up some of the figures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html?pagewanted=all
Wow!
Their country, their rules....
....i do however like the idea of prisoners doing something useful like manufacturing goods for the government, that is called giving something back not slave labour.
yep, they spend so much money locking people up that they can't afford their own health service and so have to smear ours with talk of "death panels" and "an Orwelian nightmare".
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
It's been widely proven that harshness of sentances never works as a deterant to crime though. I suspect you'd never commit another offence because you'd never commit one in the first place irrespective of the punishment.
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
So you think it's basically a policy of locking up stupid people?
It's been widely proven that harshness of sentances never works as a deterant to crime though. I suspect you'd never commit another offence because you'd never commit one in the first place irrespective of the punishment.
A policy of locking those not deterred by long sentences up for life does reduce crime though.
Using them as slaves is a stroke of genius that only the Americans could come up with. And the chinese.
why's this in the bike forum?
"So you think it's basically a policy of locking up stupid people"
If the cap fits
Hello????
We're talking about the US right? You know, the country that mutilates children genitals routinely, the country where the majority of the population are obsessively religious. You sound surprised?
Don't think it's slave labour as such - prisoners would have the option (or privilege) to work and earn money for luxuries.
But yes, the figures are insane.
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
if you had to eat?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jun/20/duncancampbell
There was a report on Radio4 this morning about North Koreans making jumpers for Edinburgh Woollen Mill/Pringle...pretty much as close to slave labour as it gets.
Frankly I'm a lot more pissed off by that.
Hello????We're talking about the US right? You know, the country that mutilates children genitals routinely
hey??
Indeed - who what when why with the genital mutilation ?
Actually, the cost of the US prison system is considerably lower than the cost here. This is mainly due to the fact they build them on cheap land miles away from major towns etc. Likewise the chance of successful escape are much reduced and therefore staffing is lower with the certain prisoners having duties, which would be carried out by guards here. They also do stuff that generates income.
A friend of mine has spent time in both low security prisons in both the UK and the US. His first hand experience is that US are better run and inmates just get on and serve their time. On the other hand, UK prisons are pretty awful and few of the inmates have any redeeming features.
country that mutilates children genitals routinely, the country where the majority of the population are obsessively religious. You sound surprised?
That is also true for a large number of Arab countries.
So they make them work, boo hoo for them - quite right in my opinion and they should do it more here. They are in jail because they have commited a crime and it costs a lot of money to keep them there. Anything that makes this less of a burden on the tax payer is good with me.
I watch QI last night and was astounded at some statistics they gave out about the US:
I hope I'm remembering all the facts correctly, I was speechless / shocked:
The US has more of it's citizens in prison as a % of the population than any other country IN HISTORY.
The US has over 2.3 MILLION in prison
Prisoners manufacture ALL US army bullet proof vest, helmets and loads of other stuff basically slave labour.
You cannot import any goods into the US made in prison at the country of origin. (some toehr rules for imports as well but I cannot remember them
The "3 strikes you are out" rule means people have been given life sentences for crimes as absurd as shoplifting a few chocolate bars
Seems reasonable to me.
About time they brought those rules in here.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime
if you had to eat?Get a job buy some food like the rest of us/welfare or dole.Nobody in this country or america are genuinely poor,try going to cambodia for example with no welfare state to fall back on if the people dont work they dont eat
There was a report on Radio4 this morning about North Koreans making jumpers for Edinburgh Woollen Mill/Pringle...pretty much as close to slave labour as it gets.
Had to google that, and I suspect what's being said isn't very clear. The North Koreans were in a Mongolian factory, and I would imagine they'd recently escaped and were in the process of saving money to move on, or paying back people still in North Korea who helped them out. Could be entirely wrong though.
Either way I'd recommend reading the book "Nothing to Envy" [url] http://nothingtoenvy.com/ [/url] as it gives pretty amazing first hand accounts of living in North Korea, along with escape routes via Mongolia.
Americans have a pretty clear attitude towards crime and punishment, you just dont want to get on the wrong side of the legal system there.
Radio 4 had a programme on a few weeks ago about the causes of the incredible fall in crime in American cities. One of our universities had looked at all the social factors, poverty, race, demographics......couldnt concluded anything other than crime fell because they had locked up all the criminals.
I think they could have reached the same point by just banning guns but that needs a constitution change. They elect judges and sherrifs, how many of them run as liberal on crime you think?
why's this in the bike forum?
What he said.
why's this in the bike forum?
LOCK HIM UP!
How about utilising the locked up thieving scum to build bike trails like the old school chain gangs,would certainly get my vote
A policy of locking those not deterred by long sentences up for life does reduce crime though.
There are other more effective and humane methods than this though
the other risk is the might as well hang for a sheep as a lamb.
Is if you get caught you are doing life so do a more serious crime with greater reward....it may also make you more likely to go armed and do more to evade capture as well.
Daft policy beloved of the right wing who prefer vengeance to rehabilitation.
Incredible responses on here. America has high crime rates, especially violent ones, you can get jailed for cashing a cheque or smoking a joint so their justice system obviously doesn't work.
They have modern day slavery and the comments from some seemingly mindless trolls on here seem to support it (I'm not anti American by the way!)
They also execute more people than most other countries (excluding China and Iran.
Anyway off to ride my bike now 🙂
didnt watch the program and link dont work but i do know that life sentences is no deterent, its ridiculous really, firstly crims dont think they are going to get caught, secondly, some have nothing to loose, 3rd some have no jobs, education, money prospects, life.. so they arnt actually loosing anything but commiting an offence might actually gain them something and the rewards are sometimes very high as in respect or money or whatever.
But what is the alternative? i dont think there is an effectiv imediate short term solution, only education, upbringing, prospects, positive society, direction will help reduce crime.
take away the need for crime to reduce crime
Incredible responses on here
when you've hung out on STW for a while.. you'll sadly realise that these are fairly average responses..
unfortunately the interwebz has a high percentage of dizzy sweating purple right wing lunatics..
I reckon we should make a law where we can eat them.. 😀
nomnomnom
That is also true for a large number of Arab countries
This is true, however at least people in these countries can generally offer a reason for doing so - however bonkers one might think it.
female circumcision?
Stoning?
Cutting hands off?
Like you say, I'm sure they have their reasons...........
Wheres the evidence for this institutional genital mutilation of children in the US?
Had to google that, and I suspect what's being said isn't very clear. The North Koreans were in a Mongolian factory, and I would imagine they'd recently escaped and were in the process of saving money to move on, or paying back people still in North Korea who helped them out. Could be entirely wrong though.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612939.stm ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612939.stm[/url]
Watched the programme last night.
Labour is supplied the north Korean gov. The workers are given food and lodgings and the wages go back to the Korean gov. The programme said the Korean workers are the countries biggest export.
When he talks of genital mutilation he means male circumcision- 77% of the male population. Not sure of its relevance here. The attempt to link it with religious fundamentalism is without any basis though, it's least common in the bible belt.
5thElefant - MemberA policy of locking those not deterred by long sentences up for life does reduce crime though.
But locking people up for a short time for relatively minor crimes then releasing them increases crime- reoffending is higher after jail than after noncustodial sentences. So unless you want to lock everyone up forever...
Noncustodial sentencing is cheaper as well as more effective.
Not sure what to think about prison labour myself. Fundamentally you have a prison system which has a vested interest in not releasing people, that can't be good. But it's not that simple I think.
Why is anyone surprised that a country that tortures prisoners and executes them, has draconian prison sentencing? Land of the Free?
yunki - Member
Incredible responses on here
when you've hung out on STW for a while.. you'll sadly realise that these are fairly average responses..unfortunately the interwebz has a high percentage of dizzy sweating purple right wing lunatics..
I reckon we should make a law where we can eat them..nomnomnom
Also known as people who disagree with you. If people having a different viewpoint to you is of such concern,why don't you stop using the forum?
Duckman +1
I happen to think we are waaaay too soft on crime in th UK and that prisoners have an easy time of it. Lock em up and make em work. Pay them so when they are released they have some money to live on, and maybe a new trade if they need one
[i]in 1995, according to the federal government's own studies, African-Americans made up 13 percent of the population and 15 percent of all drug users, yet they comprised 33 percent of people arrested, 55 percent of those convicted and 74 percent of those sentenced to prison for drug possession.[/i]
Pretty much covers the racial side...
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Prison_System/BuryingFacts.html
UK, 1 in 10 bike thefts are investigated
US, repeat bike thieves get life sentences
USA, USA, USA, USA
Whooop whoop yeeeeeeehaaaaaarrrrr
I think some of the pinkos and hand-wringers on here have forgotten that prison is also a punishment....if somebody commits a crime against me then i want that person punished firstly and rehabilitated secondly....
....in fact if the crime was violent then i couldnt give a toss about the criminal's rehabilitation and simply want to see the bastard punished.
Wrong attitude?....thats debatable but people seem to have forgotten that prison also serves a purpose for locking the scum away from the law abiding majority.
[i]Wrong attitude?....thats debatable but people seem to have forgotten that prison also serves a purpose for locking the scum away from the law abiding majority. [/i]
Us 'pinkos' don't have a problem with prison/punishment in general, its the fact that only 'certain' people who commit 'certain' crimes seem to go to prison - and in the US (as per other less social committed countries) its invariably the poor who take the brunt.
I think it should be life for three postings in the wrong forum.
I'd be well into my life stretch by now. 🙂
people having a different viewpoint to you is of such concern
[img] 
[/img]
I vaguely remember from 1st year Crim at Uni that when social class is taken into account most imprisonment is colour blind. It's poor people who go to jail, the same applies in the UK. There are more poor white people in the UK however, which is not quite so simple for you.
Might be worth reminding at this point that Britain once had an empire, which they didn't get by making cups and tea and cucumber sandwiches. A fair few slaves came via Liverpool.
(Allez Wales !!)
Also, look down at your feet US haters - is that a pair of Nikes ? i-phone hanging off your face ? Exchange at your nearest skip for some credibility.
Wrong attitude?....thats debatable but people seem to have forgotten that prison also serves a purpose for locking the scum away from the law abiding majority.
By scum you mean poor people and black people? If the US justice system is so great why do they have some of the highest crime rates in the developed world?
Some utter toss being spouted in this thread by those with a hard-on for punishment. BTW research has shown that sentencing here is in reality broadly in line with what most people think it should be, but they believe sentencing is much softer than it really is, due to the undue attention the press give cases where the sentence is perceived to be lenient.
IE lots of idiots (including some in this thread clearly) believe what they read in the Sun/Daily Mail.
There have been cases of judges being linked to the companies that profit in prisons and therefore having a financial incentive for the sentences they decide. There was one case in Pennsylvania where two judges sentenced hundreds of youth offenders to detention (the crimes included things like shoplifting a chocolate bar or setting up a myspace page to poke fun at their teacher). The judges received over $2million in return for these sentences. With private firms involved in profit making in prisons there is always the danger of a conflict in interest arising when the main concern should instead be between rehabilitation and punishment.
Threads like this really bring out the best in STWers 🙄
I do hope those spouting right wing drivel are trolling.
Grum.....massive jump from what i said to what you think i said.
By scum i mean scum....any sex, any race, any background, any class....if somebody lives their life by nicking things, threatening violence, carrying out acts of violence then i want them locked away from society....rehabilitation is nice if it can happen but for me prison has to be primarily about punishment and keeping the rest of society safe from those who live their life on the wrong side of the law.
Grum.....massive jump from what i said to what you think i said.
Nope not at all, it's just the reality behind what you are saying. You seem to be perfectly comfortable with the fact that black people are vastly disproportionately represented in prisons in the US?
Maybe it's a genetic thing eh?
So you lock people away from the rest of society, demonise them, dehumanise them by calling them scum, do very little to tackle the root causes of them ending up in prison in the first place, and then release them back into society so that the cycle can start all over again. Sounds like a great plan to me
Grum....you think that a prison population has to proportionately represent society as a whole?....interesting argument and one i'm not against in theory but real life shows that the poor and poorly educated end up in prison....in the US that's (generally) Blacks, its a money thing....in a different country with no black people (think eastern europe for example) the prison population will look completely different and is likely to comprise mainly of the unemployed or unemployable....i think throwing race into the argument muddies the waters.
Tomsk01....i work in custody suites across the south of England and see plenty of criminals, you would be astounded at the help they are offered as soon as they arrive in custody. From health checks with nurses, paramedics and doctors, to drug workers, social workers, mental health practitioners etc....they are given every opportunity to start the process of reform and rehabilitation from the moment they are arrested....and yet very few actually take the help being offered to them....why?....thats the billion dollar question isnt it?
Find the answer to that question and you will cure society's ills....i dont want to go as far as to label some people as bad or even born bad but people have to want to help themselves and despite having help thrown at them in custody most people just want to get out and go back to their old way of life...maybe they dont want to undertake the hard work required to start afresh and effectively start at the bottom of conventional society?...i dont know, but how much lower can they get when they are already in the criminal justice system?
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink....the same is true of people.
Fair point deviant, perhaps its a case of shutting the door once the horse has bolted. Can't help thinking that in some ways it comes back to having an education system that gives people a sense of morality and purpose rather than just acting as an assembly line for the economy. There's a lot of talk about the concept of 'society', but to my eyes there's not a whole lot of evidence that one actually exists anymore, what does society actually mean to people these days?
The Americans have got it right. Our system is too soft on career criminals. There was a case in the news just last week where an innocent man was murdered by two guys out on bail for serius crimes.
That is not the first time by any means.
For less serious crimes it can take dozens of convictions before anyone gets a jail sentence. For anything other than serious crime the non custodial options have usually been tried and failed.
I dont want to go as far as to label some people as bad or even born bad but people have to want to help themselves
I guess it depends on whether they consider that making themselves more like us 'good' people is helping themselves..
I spent many (perhaps) misguided years thinking that becoming more like law abiding society would be giving in to ignorance and stupidity.. and maybe even letting the 'bad' guys win..
This is an easy mindset to get into if you [i]believe[/i] that you have been born into a society where our leaders and their lawmakers are bad and have been corrupted by power and greed..
Even poor and uneducated people have enough common sense to see the righteous indignation and justice in those beliefs.. whether it's expressed as a personal philosophy or simply just an ingrained hatred of 'suits' and 'the filth' etc
Is that pinko hand wringing or inconvenient truth..?
real life shows that the poor and poorly educated end up in prison....in the US that's (generally) Blacks
You seem worryingly comfortable with this scenario.
I'm not going to go into the rest of your post but it's the usual nonsense implying that poor people deserve to be poor and criminals all choose to be criminals with the same options as everyone else.
A view generally espoused by well off people from decent backgrounds strangely enough.
Tomsk01...agree about education, children need to be given good literacy and numeracy skills and then taught/helped to find what they are good at early in life...it may stop some of the drifting people do when they cant work out what they want to do with the rest of their lives and negate the appeal of crime in this situation.
I was terrible at IT and any kind of craft...not because i couldnt do it but because i had no interest in these subjects....sadly the national curriculum forced me to take at least one subject like this in the misguided belief it would give me a rounded education when all it did was make me rebel and mess about in these classes....i liked biology, history, geography, languages but again, the national curriculum dictated that if i wanted to do both french and german then i couldnt do history or geography....ridiculous....if i wanted to do either history or geography then i had to drop a language....if i wanted to do both history and geography then i had to drop both languages!....what kind of choice is that?....in trying to have all 16 year olds leaving school with the same qualifications and the same education we actually hamper as many as we help.
Grum....very much working class start in life, mother was one of 9 children from a very poor background, father was from farm labouring stock....state educated, had to work for pocket money (paper rounds) and flirted with drink and drugs during my last couple of years at school and then onto college (where my parents separated)....left with one A-level (grade 'D' in English) as i enjoyed partying too much....spent the next few years doing factory production work for poor money, got arrested a few times and then decided at 22 years old that it might be wise to knuckle down in life as my then current approach to things wasnt giving me the life i wanted....i dont consider that a privileged or comfortable start in life.
There was a case in the news just last week where an innocent man was murdered by two guys out on bail for serius crimes.
last statistics I saw showed that people on parole were less likely to commit murder than those not on parole.
Shall I list the murders committed by non parole people?
Are you trying to suggest low level criminal will all develop into murderers if we dont bang them all up.
Interesting you claim our system is soft and America has it right and then use murder to highlight this.
Here is the exntet of their success
USA 4.8 per 100000
UK 1.17
Niether softy approaches or harsh tough love will eradicate all crime and your view is just a indication of whether you are in favour of trying to rehabilitate or revenge
persoally i would rathe rtry the former but as yunki notes in order to obey societies rules you need to feel like you are sharing in its beneifits and wealth. Many people are so poor and unable to earn money they will do anything to get money and goods. Lets be honest so will some extreme capitalists it just that this is not illegal. Is drug dealing worse than selling arms to a repressive regime?
There is no simple answer
Nice post deviant informed and wise ....you are wasted on here 😉
........i dont consider that a privileged or comfortable start in life.
Grum been pwned by his own stereotypes and prejudices - love it 8)
Grum been pwned by his own stereotypes and prejudices - love it
Not even slightly close. Massive self-pwn by deviant though.
state educated, had to work for pocket money (paper rounds) and flirted with drink and drugs during my last couple of years at school and then onto college (where my parents separated)...
OMG you went to a state school, did a paper round, drunk booze while still at school, and your parents are divorced! Wow how do you cope?
i dont consider that a privileged or comfortable start in life.
Not priveleged or comfortable, just completely normal - it's hardly growing up on a sink estate with drug addicted parents is it. Your background sounds similar to mine BTW - my father grew up in a house with no electricity and a pit toilet, and I'm about as middle class as they come.
I work in some very economically deprived areas with people in awful circumstances - you really have no ****ing idea at all do you.
i liked biology, history, geography, languages but again, the national curriculum dictated that if i wanted to do both french and german then i couldnt do history or geography....ridiculous....if i wanted to do either history or geography then i had to drop a language....[b]if i wanted to do both history and geography then i had to drop both languages!....what kind of choice is that?....[/b]
These are the kind of terribly tough challenges that someone from your deprived background has to go through. I feel deeply for your pain - oh [b]DAMN[/b] the injustice of it all! 😆
"Niether softy approaches or harsh tough love will eradicate all crime and your view is just a indication of whether you are in favour of trying to rehabilitate or revenge"
No my view is from personal experience. Seeing prisoners being taken out of jail under escort to attend several sessions of tattoo removal indicates to me the system is too soft.
Or prisoners being taken out of jail and driven across the country to visit their relative in a different jail.
Etc, etc.
Except that for some people and some tattoos, having these tattoos removed allows them to change their lives in positive ways that would otherwise be impossible. Gang markings, facial tattoos, offensive tattoos, for example... removing these can allow people to break free from their past.No my view is from personal experience. Seeing prisoners being taken out of jail under escort to attend several sessions of tattoo removal indicates to me the system is too soft.
.
as for visiting relatives WTF are we thinking of lets just tell them they died.
i assume we now have to send more to prison and treat them worse when they are there to reduce recidivism then?
I suspect vans move folk all over between jails and I bet they are not always full.
If you work in prison remember you only see the failures and this may skew your view...ie they reform you never see them again.
Grum, you've got a fine way of twisting things. Your previous post suggested my views were those of somebody from a comfortable background, I told you my very average background and its still not good enough. You're a joke.
The comment about choices at school was a separate discussion with a different poster with regard to improving education but well done on pulling it into your argument about something completely different!
I'm out of this now, I'll end it by saying that the majority of people (even those without a comfortable start in life) have plenty of choices and chances to make good...a small minority will be born into the horror of drug addicted parents and abuse, once they end up in the criminal justice system they have the opportunity to get help but they have free will to decline this help. This seems to be the part that Grum (and others) struggle with, a refusal to accept some personal responsibility cannot always be blamed on society, at some point the individual has to take charge.
at some point the individual has to take charge.
maybe the point that [i]you're[/i] struggling with, is that many crims may feel that they have already taken charge by opting out of your sycophantic, blinkered view of what constitutes positive change..
as for visiting relatives WTF are we thinking of lets just tell them they died.
Maybe it's just me but I thought seeing your relatives was one of the freedoms you lost got sent to jail.
I suspect vans move folk all over between jails and I bet they are not always full.
The way the system works prisoners going to hospital or being taken to and from other jails travel one to a vehicle. It can't work any other way. Vehicles carrying other prisoners have schedules to meet and can't wait for an hour while a con sees visits his dad or gets tattoos lazered. So each trip to the tattoo removal or each visit will cost the taxpayer hundreds of pounds.
I don't think the NHS should be doing tattoo removal for anyone. It's a self inficted disfigurement. If they are going to do them serving convicts should not be getting them.
Yunki....got no problem with a criminal taking the choice of opting out from main stream society and deciding not to follow the laws of the land....but if thats the case then dont cry for these people when they end up prison or wail that they havent had the opportunity to rehabilitate.
ie they reform you never see them again.
In the UK, re-offending hovers around the 50% mark (the figures for younger people are much worse) and it depends on your point of view as to how you take the figures.
Some would say that as half don't re-offend (or at least aren't caught) then a custodial sentence has been a success.
Others would say that as 50% re-offend then it has been a pointless 'lesson'.
Yunki - IME many of the criminals you talk of are as far from being in charge as you could get. They tend to be controlled and motivated purely by addiction or greed. Don't try and make them into some sort of ideological anti-heroes.
irc - MemberMaybe it's just me but I thought seeing your relatives was one of the freedoms you lost got sent to jail.
And what have the relatives been convicted of?
Yunki - IME many of the criminals you talk of are as far from being in charge as you could get. They tend to be controlled and motivated purely by addiction or greed. Don't try and make them into some sort of ideological anti-heroes.
that's a very fair statement - I was really only attempting to convey the psychology behind the crims lack of interest in becoming more like you and I..
IME it's very easy for the crim to look at the law-abiding majority as some kind of primitive semi-sentient cattle.. a sub-species of subordinate sycophants mindlessly carrying out their masters bidding..
Regardless of the immediate motivation for their crime.. even if you can tackle [i]that[/i] issue, it's very difficult to then encourage them to join the fearfully lowing herd in their relentless toil..
#what likie crashing a bike not wearing enough protection they should just ignore youI don't think the NHS should be doing tattoo removal for anyone. It's a self inficted disfigurement.
the punishment is the loss of liberty not what we do to you once you are in prison.
I am not sure how treating people worse will make them behave better on release which is surely the goal - as they try to avoid getting caught it seems safe to assume they dont want to go to our soft prisons.
It can be no coincidence that they seem to be drawn disproportionately from the lower socio economic classesa refusal to accept some personal responsibility cannot always be blamed on society, at some point the individual has to take charge.
we need to address both causes
the punishment is the loss of liberty not what we do to you once you are in prison.
So should they be supplied with drink, drugs, and whores because it's being in jail that is the punishment not what happens in jail?
what likie crashing a bike not wearing enough protection they should just ignore you
A crash is accidental. Tattos are not. If someone who chooses to disfigure themselves shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pay.
And what have the relatives been convicted of?
So are you saying nobody should be sent to prison in case their relatives miss them? The cons should think abut that before they do the crime.
Anyway when cons are taken to another jail to see relatives it is because the relative concerned has committed a crime and is serving a sentence in that jail. S the answer is one or other or both of them not to chose to be criminals.
Grum, you've got a fine way of twisting things. Your previous post suggested my views were those of somebody from a comfortable background, I told you my very average background and its still not good enough. You're a joke.
The comment about choices at school was a separate discussion with a different poster with regard to improving education but well done on pulling it into your argument about something completely different!
I said well-off (which you have bragged about being in a previous thread), and from a decent background (ie parents that gave a shit about you). You have a very normal background and absolutely no clue whatsoever what life is like for many people in this country.
Personally I think that the justice system lacks any punitive deterance to offenders.
I also agree with the comments that people have to want to help themselves in order to get the best out of anything thats offered to them ...
reality is that a considerable portion of them will consent to the help only in order to get them the thing that they want next ( be it a more lenient sentence / out early / whatever )
is that many crims may feel that they have already taken charge by opting out of your sycophantic, blinkered view of what constitutes positive change..
No, personally dont think its a case of taking charge and making that decision. A lot of criminals I deal with revolve around drug issues ... and its not a choice they've made to shunn the help as quoted ... its more of an out-right selfishness on their part to find their next fix / hit.
Repeat offenders know the system ... inside out ... and screw it rotten ... knowing they can get away with it.
Do I think prison is the answer ? not necessarily.
I personally think that punishment in a lot of cases would be more effective at source. E.g. If a court decides that a fine is a suitable punishment for a crime for an offender on benefits, and that fine is determined by what benefits the person gets and what they can afford, the the fine should taken straight out of their benefits before being handed over to the person.
Also think that prisoners should be put to doing work for the good of society ... sorting out recycling stuff, washing laundry for hospitals etc etc.
ircSo are you saying nobody should be sent to prison in case their relatives miss them?
Well, it's not what I typed, and it makes no sense... So on balance, I'd say that's exactly not what I'm saying, and if you would take the time to read you wouldn't be asking stupid questions.
So should they be supplied with drink, drugs, and whores because it's being in jail that is the punishment not what happens in jail?
I think most of us can tell the difference between a prison and party even if you are confused on this issue. Why not stay on topic and tells us which other of their basic human rights [ or indeed innocent people's human rights] you feel they should be deprived of as well as liberty?
A kidney?
fisha - MemberPersonally I think that the justice system lacks any punitive deterance to offenders.
Have you ever been in a prison?
The only problem with the American penal system is that it doesn't work.
sometimes stw's capacity as a haven for reactionary, swivel eyed, conservative loons is quite scary.
it worries me that one day i may have to share the same trail as you and you'll sniff out my human frailties and have me flogged like the wretched peasant that i am.