I watch QI last night and was astounded at some statistics they gave out about the US:
I hope I'm remembering all the facts correctly, I was speechless / shocked:
The US has more of it's citizens in prison as a % of the population than any other country IN HISTORY.
The US has over 2.3 MILLION in prison
Prisoners manufacture ALL US army bullet proof vest, helmets and loads of other stuff basically slave labour.
You cannot import any goods into the US made in prison at the country of origin. (some toehr rules for imports as well but I cannot remember them
The "3 strikes you are out" rule means people have been given life sentences for crimes as absurd as shoplifting a few chocolate bars
There are more black 17 year olds in prison than college
If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.
I apologise for any facts that maybe wrong but some quick googling today seems to prove the figures are if not 100% correct not far off.
See article belwo that backs up some of the figures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html?pagewanted=all
Wow!
Their country, their rules....
....i do however like the idea of prisoners doing something useful like manufacturing goods for the government, that is called giving something back not slave labour.
yep, they spend so much money locking people up that they can't afford their own health service and so have to smear ours with talk of "death panels" and "an Orwelian nightmare".
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
It's been widely proven that harshness of sentances never works as a deterant to crime though. I suspect you'd never commit another offence because you'd never commit one in the first place irrespective of the punishment.
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
So you think it's basically a policy of locking up stupid people?
It's been widely proven that harshness of sentances never works as a deterant to crime though. I suspect you'd never commit another offence because you'd never commit one in the first place irrespective of the punishment.
A policy of locking those not deterred by long sentences up for life does reduce crime though.
Using them as slaves is a stroke of genius that only the Americans could come up with. And the chinese.
why's this in the bike forum?
"So you think it's basically a policy of locking up stupid people"
If the cap fits
Hello????
We're talking about the US right? You know, the country that mutilates children genitals routinely, the country where the majority of the population are obsessively religious. You sound surprised?
Don't think it's slave labour as such - prisoners would have the option (or privilege) to work and earn money for luxuries.
But yes, the figures are insane.
If i knew that if i committed 1 more crime and i would be locked up for life,no way would i go any where near a criminal offence,more fool them.
if you had to eat?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jun/20/duncancampbell
There was a report on Radio4 this morning about North Koreans making jumpers for Edinburgh Woollen Mill/Pringle...pretty much as close to slave labour as it gets.
Frankly I'm a lot more pissed off by that.
Hello????We're talking about the US right? You know, the country that mutilates children genitals routinely
hey??
Indeed - who what when why with the genital mutilation ?
Actually, the cost of the US prison system is considerably lower than the cost here. This is mainly due to the fact they build them on cheap land miles away from major towns etc. Likewise the chance of successful escape are much reduced and therefore staffing is lower with the certain prisoners having duties, which would be carried out by guards here. They also do stuff that generates income.
A friend of mine has spent time in both low security prisons in both the UK and the US. His first hand experience is that US are better run and inmates just get on and serve their time. On the other hand, UK prisons are pretty awful and few of the inmates have any redeeming features.
country that mutilates children genitals routinely, the country where the majority of the population are obsessively religious. You sound surprised?
That is also true for a large number of Arab countries.
So they make them work, boo hoo for them - quite right in my opinion and they should do it more here. They are in jail because they have commited a crime and it costs a lot of money to keep them there. Anything that makes this less of a burden on the tax payer is good with me.
I watch QI last night and was astounded at some statistics they gave out about the US:
I hope I'm remembering all the facts correctly, I was speechless / shocked:
The US has more of it's citizens in prison as a % of the population than any other country IN HISTORY.
The US has over 2.3 MILLION in prison
Prisoners manufacture ALL US army bullet proof vest, helmets and loads of other stuff basically slave labour.
You cannot import any goods into the US made in prison at the country of origin. (some toehr rules for imports as well but I cannot remember them
The "3 strikes you are out" rule means people have been given life sentences for crimes as absurd as shoplifting a few chocolate bars
Seems reasonable to me.
About time they brought those rules in here.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime
if you had to eat?Get a job buy some food like the rest of us/welfare or dole.Nobody in this country or america are genuinely poor,try going to cambodia for example with no welfare state to fall back on if the people dont work they dont eat
There was a report on Radio4 this morning about North Koreans making jumpers for Edinburgh Woollen Mill/Pringle...pretty much as close to slave labour as it gets.
Had to google that, and I suspect what's being said isn't very clear. The North Koreans were in a Mongolian factory, and I would imagine they'd recently escaped and were in the process of saving money to move on, or paying back people still in North Korea who helped them out. Could be entirely wrong though.
Either way I'd recommend reading the book "Nothing to Envy" [url] http://nothingtoenvy.com/ [/url] as it gives pretty amazing first hand accounts of living in North Korea, along with escape routes via Mongolia.
Americans have a pretty clear attitude towards crime and punishment, you just dont want to get on the wrong side of the legal system there.
Radio 4 had a programme on a few weeks ago about the causes of the incredible fall in crime in American cities. One of our universities had looked at all the social factors, poverty, race, demographics......couldnt concluded anything other than crime fell because they had locked up all the criminals.
I think they could have reached the same point by just banning guns but that needs a constitution change. They elect judges and sherrifs, how many of them run as liberal on crime you think?
why's this in the bike forum?
What he said.
why's this in the bike forum?
LOCK HIM UP!
How about utilising the locked up thieving scum to build bike trails like the old school chain gangs,would certainly get my vote
A policy of locking those not deterred by long sentences up for life does reduce crime though.
There are other more effective and humane methods than this though
the other risk is the might as well hang for a sheep as a lamb.
Is if you get caught you are doing life so do a more serious crime with greater reward....it may also make you more likely to go armed and do more to evade capture as well.
Daft policy beloved of the right wing who prefer vengeance to rehabilitation.
Incredible responses on here. America has high crime rates, especially violent ones, you can get jailed for cashing a cheque or smoking a joint so their justice system obviously doesn't work.
They have modern day slavery and the comments from some seemingly mindless trolls on here seem to support it (I'm not anti American by the way!)
They also execute more people than most other countries (excluding China and Iran.
Anyway off to ride my bike now 🙂
didnt watch the program and link dont work but i do know that life sentences is no deterent, its ridiculous really, firstly crims dont think they are going to get caught, secondly, some have nothing to loose, 3rd some have no jobs, education, money prospects, life.. so they arnt actually loosing anything but commiting an offence might actually gain them something and the rewards are sometimes very high as in respect or money or whatever.
But what is the alternative? i dont think there is an effectiv imediate short term solution, only education, upbringing, prospects, positive society, direction will help reduce crime.
take away the need for crime to reduce crime
Incredible responses on here
when you've hung out on STW for a while.. you'll sadly realise that these are fairly average responses..
unfortunately the interwebz has a high percentage of dizzy sweating purple right wing lunatics..
I reckon we should make a law where we can eat them.. 😀
nomnomnom
That is also true for a large number of Arab countries
This is true, however at least people in these countries can generally offer a reason for doing so - however bonkers one might think it.
female circumcision?
Stoning?
Cutting hands off?
Like you say, I'm sure they have their reasons...........
Wheres the evidence for this institutional genital mutilation of children in the US?
Had to google that, and I suspect what's being said isn't very clear. The North Koreans were in a Mongolian factory, and I would imagine they'd recently escaped and were in the process of saving money to move on, or paying back people still in North Korea who helped them out. Could be entirely wrong though.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612939.stm ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612939.stm[/url]
Watched the programme last night.
Labour is supplied the north Korean gov. The workers are given food and lodgings and the wages go back to the Korean gov. The programme said the Korean workers are the countries biggest export.
When he talks of genital mutilation he means male circumcision- 77% of the male population. Not sure of its relevance here. The attempt to link it with religious fundamentalism is without any basis though, it's least common in the bible belt.
5thElefant - MemberA policy of locking those not deterred by long sentences up for life does reduce crime though.
But locking people up for a short time for relatively minor crimes then releasing them increases crime- reoffending is higher after jail than after noncustodial sentences. So unless you want to lock everyone up forever...
Noncustodial sentencing is cheaper as well as more effective.
Not sure what to think about prison labour myself. Fundamentally you have a prison system which has a vested interest in not releasing people, that can't be good. But it's not that simple I think.
Why is anyone surprised that a country that tortures prisoners and executes them, has draconian prison sentencing? Land of the Free?
yunki - Member
Incredible responses on here
when you've hung out on STW for a while.. you'll sadly realise that these are fairly average responses..unfortunately the interwebz has a high percentage of dizzy sweating purple right wing lunatics..
I reckon we should make a law where we can eat them..nomnomnom
Also known as people who disagree with you. If people having a different viewpoint to you is of such concern,why don't you stop using the forum?
Duckman +1
I happen to think we are waaaay too soft on crime in th UK and that prisoners have an easy time of it. Lock em up and make em work. Pay them so when they are released they have some money to live on, and maybe a new trade if they need one
[i]in 1995, according to the federal government's own studies, African-Americans made up 13 percent of the population and 15 percent of all drug users, yet they comprised 33 percent of people arrested, 55 percent of those convicted and 74 percent of those sentenced to prison for drug possession.[/i]
Pretty much covers the racial side...
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Prison_System/BuryingFacts.html
UK, 1 in 10 bike thefts are investigated
US, repeat bike thieves get life sentences
USA, USA, USA, USA
Whooop whoop yeeeeeeehaaaaaarrrrr
I think some of the pinkos and hand-wringers on here have forgotten that prison is also a punishment....if somebody commits a crime against me then i want that person punished firstly and rehabilitated secondly....
....in fact if the crime was violent then i couldnt give a toss about the criminal's rehabilitation and simply want to see the bastard punished.
Wrong attitude?....thats debatable but people seem to have forgotten that prison also serves a purpose for locking the scum away from the law abiding majority.
[i]Wrong attitude?....thats debatable but people seem to have forgotten that prison also serves a purpose for locking the scum away from the law abiding majority. [/i]
Us 'pinkos' don't have a problem with prison/punishment in general, its the fact that only 'certain' people who commit 'certain' crimes seem to go to prison - and in the US (as per other less social committed countries) its invariably the poor who take the brunt.
I think it should be life for three postings in the wrong forum.
I'd be well into my life stretch by now. 🙂
people having a different viewpoint to you is of such concern
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I vaguely remember from 1st year Crim at Uni that when social class is taken into account most imprisonment is colour blind. It's poor people who go to jail, the same applies in the UK. There are more poor white people in the UK however, which is not quite so simple for you.
Might be worth reminding at this point that Britain once had an empire, which they didn't get by making cups and tea and cucumber sandwiches. A fair few slaves came via Liverpool.
(Allez Wales !!)
Also, look down at your feet US haters - is that a pair of Nikes ? i-phone hanging off your face ? Exchange at your nearest skip for some credibility.
Wrong attitude?....thats debatable but people seem to have forgotten that prison also serves a purpose for locking the scum away from the law abiding majority.
By scum you mean poor people and black people? If the US justice system is so great why do they have some of the highest crime rates in the developed world?
Some utter toss being spouted in this thread by those with a hard-on for punishment. BTW research has shown that sentencing here is in reality broadly in line with what most people think it should be, but they believe sentencing is much softer than it really is, due to the undue attention the press give cases where the sentence is perceived to be lenient.
IE lots of idiots (including some in this thread clearly) believe what they read in the Sun/Daily Mail.
