[Closed] American journalist death

This piece is quite interesting

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/20/isis-british-militant-james-foley-video ]Guardian Link[/url]

Tom - remember after the first Gulf war, they set up a protection zone for the Kurds. So that if Sadaam came anywhere near them, he knew what he'd get. Surely its not beyond us, with all the military hardware at our disposal to do the same.

Yup, it also worked well and the Kurds have never forgotten it. We can have friends in the middle east, Bosnians also love us for helping them out. Funnily enough they aren't prone to radicalism either.

Just thinking aloud before anyone screams that I'm a warmongering neocon personification of evil.

I've been resigned to my own horrified fate before.. it was an utterly hollow and defeated experience..

That aside, seeing as this macabre subject has had a thread dedicated to it, did anyone see the video that did the rounds a few years ago of the Congolese Christian missionaries fairly casually beating and burning alive a small group of villagers, men, women and children, that had been accused of witchcraft?

It haunted me for months and months and when I think of it now I still get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and tears prick my eyes..
I could never have imagined such an appalling scene and the wretchedness of those victims was harrowing as again and again they were forced back into the fire pit..

There was no fighting, no running or thrashing about.. just confused and utterly broken people pathetically using the very last of their will, stumbling backwards and forwards between a rock and a hard place, consumed by fear, anguish and agony

I think you are confusing repressive non democratic countries and peaceful. Most of the arab nations were "peaceful" pre the arab spring

wrecker - Member

There are UK and USA citizens fighting in conflicts all over the world, many of whom are trained at the taxpayers expense as they are ex-military. We should be hunting down these 'soldiers of fortune' as well.

Not really correct, and not remotely comparable. They aren't acting as mercenaries in the sense that they aren't fighting for a nation or cause. They are security contractors and aren't really paid to "fight" at all. They are hired protection, not hired warfighters. Very very different to idealogical war tourists comitting genocide, and an ignorant comparison.

I am not talking about security contractors, I am talking about paid mercenaries, people who fight in conflicts in exchange for a wage. Are you suggesting these people don't exist? Whilst not directly comparable to ideological war tourists committing genocide, as you put it, these mercenaries are also UK citizens involved in other peoples seedy 'wars' and I would not welcome them back. Nothing ignorant about that.

@JY my point is that Arab and Muslim nations can be peaceful, including those with Western "interference". Given the choice between repression (your word not mine) and the current situation in Iraq and Syria it's clear to me which is better. I would suggest Egypt and Lybia are less stable today as democracies than they where before.

So was France....

worth bearing in mind here I think that what IS were doing to the Yaszidis and others was as good as genocide, a crime against humanity. likewise stories of them rolling in to villages and murdering all the inhabitants, that's what the Nazis did in Russia, the Balkans and so on.

it's no bad thing to get on with stopping them.

whats the UK version of a jihadi? is it my religious right to drag some scrrote muslim off the street and behead him in public also?

I fear in my childrens lifetime the people who say it would never happen here will see this on the streets of the UK ,

oh catshroedinger... you are priceless 😆

I reckon you probably need a cuddle love

catschroedinger - Member
whats the UK version of a jihadi? is it my religious right to drag some scrrote muslim off the street and behead him in public also?

I fear in my childrens lifetime the people who say it would never happen here will see this on the streets of the UK ,

That said, there are more peaceful British citizens than there are fundamentalists and terrorists.

Ultimatum the iraqis; go get your oil producing and refining plant back or we'll bomb the lot.

I really do believe that Jihadis are at least partly driven by sexual and emotional frustration.

I reckon you probably need a cuddle love

ISIS has grown out of the Syrian civil war in which the West was not involved.

We could not intervene in Syria, we can intervene in Iraq

oh but the UK and the west did get involved...its just that they didnt do it in the same way they did with Iraq. they supported the Syrian rebels in trying to overthrow Assaad....when that failed they kind of sloped off into the background. the rebels then carried on fighting and killing and formed what we now know as ISIS.

@ jambalaya...are you going to answer my question from the other thread? i have a tenner on it to say that you cant.

I can't believe people think we should not help the poor people being murdered everyday, not only because it's right but because we are some what responsible.

I used to sometimes talk to an old boy now retired who used to be quit high up in the TA, as he sometimes shot at the same club as me.
A few years ago when it was first announced that we were going to be pulling out of Afghanistan or Iraq he was very pissed off. Some of his reasons selfish others not so.

1, he thought our army should be fighting someone somewhere at all times as if not there budget would be cut along with their personnel.

2, he saw it as a soft war, more on the job training, as any army that is entirely made up of people who have never seen action or fired a shot in anger would not be fit for purpose if the shit really hit the fan.

3. Nation building and installing democracy could not be done in less than three generations because as long as how it used to be was in living memory it was too easy to go back,and without strong leadership it would soon descend into a modern day dark age.

I said three generations is a long time, he said that's how long it takes if you are not prepared to see it through do not get involved in the first place.
And the timescale did not bother him see 1 and 2.

I said What about the people bought home in body bags.
He said these are not green grocers these are soldiers, people who are prepared to stand up and be counted and to fight to help others against evil .

And to not use an army to do what's right because some may be killed, well you may as well not have an army in the first place.

I remember some one on here maybe even ton saying their daughter had signed up.

No one wants there loved ones in harms way but surely the reason you are proud is because they are prepared to stand up and be counted for what is right.

No one wants there loved ones in harms way but surely the reason you are proud is because they are prepared to stand up and be counted for what is right.

That's an entirely different debate. If it could be honestly said that the British army was used purely for aiding the oppressed, fighting evil, and defending the British people and it's allies from external (or internal) aggressors then I think many people could stomach the sacrifice. However all too often it is used to defend/improve the profits of private companies and the corrupt interests of politicians and their friends. In this scenario I think it's hardly surprising there's a reluctance to put boots on the ground for fear of body bags coming home. Your friend in the TA displays a rather shocking disdain for the lives of his personnel. Maintaining his budget should be the last reason to risk the lives of soldiers.

No one wants there loved ones in harms way but surely the reason you are proud is because they are prepared to stand up and be counted for what is right.

by doing the wrong thing. its not their fault however, they serve their countries and follow the orders they are given by their superiors. in recent events their superiors have got it wrong and the military personnel have paid the ultimate price.

So who made us the worlds police and conscience then? Nobody! Or maybe Tony Blair! Its nowt to do with us! Every single thing we've done in the region has made things worse. Everything! Without a single solitary exception!

I don't expect that to change any time soon. Let them get on with it!

Are you suggesting these people don't exist?

@ jambalaya...are you going to answer my question from the other thread? i have a tenner on it to say that you cant.

Co-incidently did you know the Head of Communications for ISIS in Syria lives with his family in Southern Gaza ? A few videos posted online earlier this year from ISIS groups on the strip.

So who made us the worlds police and conscience then?

Arms companies, oil companies, mining companies, industrial services companies, security companies etc. Too much money at stake not to have a 'conscience'.

^ He's on the money; the Bush nest egg Halliburton has profited hugely from war in Iraq, though that should come as no surprise given Prescott Bush's profits from the 2nd World War...

Can only begin to imagine how much the Rothchilds and one of their pet projects the Federal Reserve are set to gain...

John Foley's last piece written in Syria, Oct 2012. Quite telling

[i]“The terrorism here in Syria is spreading, and the government has to do something about it,” said Mohamed Kabal, a 21-year-old university student.

“The people in Syria must have an iron hand to rule them, otherwise we will eat each other,” he said, unconcerned that the rebel sympathizers nearby might hear him. “If the government is gone we will have a civil war that will never end.”[/i]

[url= http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/syria/121015/aleppo-syria-rebels-fsa-assad-support ]link[/url]

John Foley's last piece written in Syria, Oct 2012. Quite telling

“The terrorism here in Syria is spreading, and the government has to do something about it,” said Mohamed Kabal, a 21-year-old university student.

“The people in Syria must have an iron hand to rule them, otherwise we will eat each other,” he said, unconcerned that the rebel sympathizers nearby might hear him. “If the government is gone we will have a civil war that will never end.”

link

Theres only one solution to this ,roll out the NUKES and absolutely SHOW THEM THE TRUE MEANING OF HOLOCAUST blanket bomb the shit out of the whole region till theres no-one left ,the nuclear winter is surely far more prefferable to islamic nutjacks and their brand of terrorism

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Wot chip sed.

But are we all actually bothered, or pretend bothered and we'll not care after dinner?

But are we all actually bothered, or pretend bothered and we'll not care after dinner?

It's true; with the constant streaming news, we have our emotions manipulated on a momentary basis... certainly, this death was barbaric, but so were the 4 men beheaded by U.S. Allies and alleged ISIS funders Saudi Arabia for smuggling drugs.

As for the death count in Gaza today; reports are mixed, but as I understand, there's been at least 20, not to mention injuries; if Israel are using flechette shells as reported, then these are likely to be horrific.

The overall daily death toll in Syria averages out around 60.

So, just why is it that this one life is so worthy of such dedicated press coverage, if not for manipulation of not only the general populace, but also the press themselves, who will naturally want revenge...

Theres only one solution to this ,roll out the NUKES and absolutely SHOW THEM THE TRUE MEANING OF HOLOCAUST blanket bomb the shit out of the whole region till theres no-one left ,the nuclear winter is surely far more prefferable to islamic nutjacks and their brand of terrorism

some people want to have control, some don't. those that do will use any means to get it. muslims on the whole are pretty devout, so if you want to whip up a load of muslims you use religion to do it. on the other hand, if most of the population couldn't give a toss about religion, you use something else, like 'defending our way of life, because we stand for freedom and fairness etc etc'
either way certain people will profit, whether its from control of the oil or arms sales they don't care.

So, just why is it that this one life is so worthy of such dedicated press coverage, if not for manipulation of not only the general populace, but also the press themselves, who will naturally want revenge...

What is concerning is the amount of British citizens who have travelled to fight with ISIS, it seems the Muslim majority is unable to deter them.

What concernes me far more, is the number of British citizens who willingly sign up to be part of the armed forces of the Uk, which has been instrumental in the barbaric and utterly unjustifiable lsaughter of thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afganistan recently, in spite of overwhelming evidence that these wre totally unjust and indefensible examples of western military imperialism.

Somebody earlier made the point about footage from drone strikes etc being played on our media, with the end result being the sabme. Yet we watch such footage with the same detachment from reality, as if it were a video game. Innocent people being killed, yet it's ok to show such senseless slaughter? I really don't distinguish between such acts of barbarism, and horrific beheadings of those who strive to bring us information. It's all ****ing wrong.

Do you know anyone in the British armed forces? I do. Lots of my mates. Believe me, they certainly don't sign up for the opportunity to 'slaughter' people. If you can't distinguish between them, and some jihadist nutter, beheading someone, then quite frankly you're an idiot! 🙄

Yer but once I did meet "one of those soldiers".

He probably isn't your mate, he probably hasn't been caught and is definitely a murderer.

But he had a wide and kids and coached football and had a HfH wristband.

Tar, brush, across the board.

This is awful; You know what kills more people than people?
Tuberculosis, Hepatitis, Dysentery. Fix that.

Edit: Had one conversation too many about this shit today.

Are we having some kind of competition to see who can post the most moronic, rambling, mindless nonsense on this thread? If so, it's a tough call. Some prime candidates!

binners - Member
Are we having some kind of competition to see who can post the most moronic, rambling, mindless nonsense on this thread? If so, it's a tough call. Some prime candidates

*splutter of beverage*

That's what this is.

there's your nuthob right there

Pretty sure last time a nuclear weapon was dropped it stopped another load of suicidals from continuing the course they had chosen, if your fighting extremeists use extreme measures ,pretty sure they would love to hear how you whip up extremism through religion . Maybe before they cut off your infidel head ?

by doing the wrong thing. its not their fault however, they serve their countries and follow the orders they are given by their superiors. in recent events their superiors have got it wrong and the military personnel have paid the ultimate price.

After 9/11 though, going shooty shooty bang bang in Afghanistan with Britains best trained loons was entirely justified. It's only the Iraq war that wasn't.

A heads up guys, viewing or sharing such videos is a crime.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/20/police-warn-james-foley-video-crime-social-media

I don't know whether that means viewing the medias censored versions of the video, or Nato/Israeli gunsight footage is a crime then? 😈

Anyway does anyone know about the fella who did this? Dave Smith or something born within the sound of the Bow bells. What's it take to make a guy like that cut of someone's head and share it on youtube?

Probably the same that it takes for private security contractors to pop of and kill for money.

Greed and false hope.

Do you know anyone in the British armed forces? I do. Lots of my mates. Believe me, they certainly don't sign up for the opportunity to 'slaughter' people. If you can't distinguish between them, and some jihadist nutter, beheading someone, then quite frankly you're an idiot!

are you on ****ing crack mate!?

Do you know anyone in the British armed forces? I do. Lots of my mates. Believe me, they certainly don't sign up for the opportunity to 'slaughter' people. If you can't distinguish between them, and some jihadist nutter, beheading someone, then quite frankly you're an idiot!

(I could make a counter coment about a persn really not understanding somtheing I actually wrote, and instead chosing to froth and splutter in a confused, knee-jerking reaction, but hey...)

So, if I can't distinguish between someone signng up to fight 'for Queen and country', armed with seriously nasty wepaory that blows childrent o bits, when all the info out thereis that it's a major **** up which is entirely unjustifiable and wrong, and 'jihadist nutter behading someone', I'm an 'idiot'?

Ok then. I think I can live wih you not sharing my views, as I'm not in fact an 'idiot' as oyu beleive, but someone capable and entitled to have theri own opinions on a subject.

Do you know anyone in the British armed forces?

Yes; a couple of family members amongst them in fact. Your point?

I suspect the 'jihadist nutters' probably think the British armed service personell are imperialist infidel scum, and that it is in fact they themselves who are the 'righteous'. That's how war works, you see. Hate vs Hate. This isn't some glorious righteous crusade against the evil dark hordes, this is war. And both sides are ****ing wrong.

Are we having some kind of competition to see who can post the most moronic, rambling, mindless nonsense on this thread? If so, it's a tough call. Some prime candidates!

Well, you appear to be a worthy contender. 😉

Pretty sure last time a nuclear weapon was dropped it stopped another load of suicidals from continuing the course they had chosen,

The World is much smaleer these days. People more able to move across the globe. I don't think people from the West of Middle Eastern descent would be best pleased if nuclear weapons were used on friends and family back in the motherland.

Again, I kind of sympathize with your point stoffel. However, the last time I checked the ROE of British soldiers didn't include beheading journos.

What's it take to make a guy like that cut of someone's head and share it on youtube?

Public beheading is a traditional Sunni form of execution. Our friends the Saudis do it, as did our other friends the Afghan mujaheddin. I guess putting it on youtube is what made Foley's execution "public".

Our friends and close allies the Saudis (who back ISIS) about to carry out a public beheading :

[img] [/img]

Saudis beheaded 4 guys yesterday for smuggling weed...

I could explain how the arms trade has links to international paedophile rings involving MPs, but you probably wouldn't believe me...

[img] [/img]

The World is much smaleer these days. People more able to move across the globe. I don't think people from the West of Middle Eastern descent would be best pleased if nuclear weapons were used on friends and family back in the motherland.

You know what Europeans are like though, we have a long and illustrious history of genocide and death camps for people we consider to be a bit trouble makerish.