An interesting approach from the owners of Alton Towers. It's good to see that they are providing support in other ways.
'Calmer spaces to people that find crowds difficult' like somewhere not in Alton towers.
It's a tricky one TBH as there are more and more folk diagnosed, and then this is used for the fast pass. My son got access for a very short time for his T1 diagnosis, but only during the first year or two whilst we sorted out medication - he was on injections at that point, but we had to take the letter from the doctor. Got 2 years, but after that, nothing, so ADHD etc aren't as serious. I suspect Alton Towers relaxed the rules too much, which has caused queue's to build up for those needing fast access, making it miserable for all.
Very tricky, but TBH, even as someone deemed 'normal' I can't be bothered with the waiting. We used to go early and hit the rides we wanted without the queue.
Im not surprised. It seems that more and more people are being diagnosed with some sort of condition now. Whether that becuase its on the rise, better diagnostics or something else is another debate
I have a daughter with ASD, does she need a fast lane pass? (she doesn't have one, but has asked about it in the past as we don't live too far from Thorpe Park and the kids both tend to go on the odd occasion). My answer would be 'No'. My kids both know other children who have used siblings passes, or their own diagnosis to gain faster entry when not really necessary, and I can see why this is being pulled back on. I'm all in favour for the benefit for those who actually need it, how this is applied to those with a non-physical condition is more tricky.
How ride entry is dealt with at theme parks is a different question. If you go during busier times (inevitable when you have kids who need to fit the trip in during non-school periods) to have any chance of getting on enough rides to make the trip worthwhile you have to spend significantly more than the cost of entry on fast track tickets (hence the greater use of other methods to bypass queues).
My view - people will take advantage of this to jump the queues to the detriment of people who genuinley need it, so some controls should be in place rather than just taking peoples word for it.
How are they going to decide who needs it or not? for example, ASD symptoms can be pretty varied day on day, hour on hour, depending on what else is going on. one shitty experience in a long, cramped queue can potentially knock someone off into a hypersensitive state for the rest of the day. Or alternatively the same person may be absolutely fine that day and not need any assistance.
In schools we'd have an 'all about me' document which detailed to teaching staff particular triggers, methods of communication and what actions to take, but I don't think that type of disclosure would work, or would be robust enough to weed out those who might abuse the system.
I suspect it'll be a blanket no, unless there is a physical need, but as mentioned, some available resources to help ASD/ADHD sufferers manage symptoms.
I suspect the problem is the system is being abused and it's not really helping those that genuinely need the fast pass.
It really is a hard one – we have a friend who has a daughter with autism – she desperately needs a fast pass as she really can't cope with the waiting (although she is fine with busy places) – she has needed a pass since she was a toddler (now 17). Another friend has autism and she is perfectly fine waiting and with busy places so doesn't need a fast pass. One of our daughters has ADHD and she is happy waiting, but hates busy/noisy places so a pass would be useful but not necessary.
So what am I saying? It is a spectrum and clearly (in my experience), there is not a 'one-size' solution – some people don't need a pass, but it is clearly going to impact those that really do need one.
Can somebody explain what this pass they're restricting actually is? They're calling it a "fast lane" but it sounds like you still effectively queue as normal, just not standing physically in the queue.
its a separate queue like the paid 'Fast Track' queue, but for those with the accessibility pass.
My initial reaction was "well, that's disappointing" but the comments here have changed my mind.
The more people who have access for a 'fast pass,' the less benefit it has. If we're handing them out because of disability then it probably should be based on genuine need for those specific privileges afforded by concessions rather than just "I are disabled," though of course policing that is another matter and as we've seen with sunflower lanyards in pandemics people cannot be trusted.
Frankly, the concept of fast passes outwith disability requirements gives me the ick anyway. Got no money? Back of the line with you, peasant. Quite why every rider can't just be given a ticket for a time slot I don't know, those two hours standing in a queue could instead be freed up to be spending money in the rest of the park.
That link without the paywall:
At Alton Towers, you used to go in via the exit or the fast pass lane/single rider. That may have changed.
Quite why every rider can't just be given a ticket for a time slot I don't know
This would be a digital queue, and they are a wonderful idea and would help the end user, but for the park it costs a lot, but also instead of having people stood in queues, they would congregate other places, and Alton towers as an example has nothing worth looking at.
In 'merica where the parks are monstrous compared to the uk parks the amount of people wandering would seem less
I am not in agreement or against this, Merlin need to invest a lot of money and over haul their parks to make them worth visiting, we are a merlin pass holder household.
I caught a bit of the debate on Jeremy vine radio 2... It seems they (merlin) do have a system that you (customer) have to advise/prove before hand you qualify for a pass...
I don't know what that proof is exactly but that appears to be the crux of the issue... How high is the bar? What is the proof?
These things are often on a spectrum so to me a blanket pass for anyone with mild adhd who simply gets irritated in a queue... Well tough shit, everyone gets irritated in a long queue to some extent.
Of course that leaves the question of what is reasonable to qualify for a pass?
This is going back 10 years, but we had to speak to the GP about a letter, as my son was prone to hypo's once initially diagnosed so we could be a bit screwed in a long queue getting him out for treatment, or getting out a needle in the middle of a crowd to control his hypers. We only had the pass for a year, as once it was under control he didn't meet the criteria. Merlin must have relaxed it somewhat. We had to produce the letter every time we went in (we had a year pass at the time).
The pass at the time covered the person and one carer, so I don't know if then 'whole' families went in. For us it was my son and his sister. We (parents) either didn't bother with the rides, or went separately in the normal queue.
This is going back 10 years, but we had to speak to the GP about a letter, as my son was prone to hypo's once initially diagnosed so we could be a bit screwed in a long queue getting him out for treatment, or getting out a needle in the middle of a crowd to control his hypers. We only had the pass for a year, as once it was under control he didn't meet the criteria. Merlin must have relaxed it somewhat. We had to produce the letter every time we went in (we had a year pass at the time).
The pass at the time covered the person and one carer, so I don't know if then 'whole' families went in. For us it was my son and his sister. We (parents) either didn't bother with the rides, or went separately in the normal queue.
That to me is a fine and valid example..
I guess if I'm being blunt, this issue appears to me, to be more around every man and his dog having 'adhd' these days, when I think it's often just impatience and a sense of entitlement, and an excuse for poor behavior rather than a genuine need.
My experience aligns with Fossy's, I don't think Merlin group is particularly unusual here.
I guess if I'm being blunt, this issue appears to me, to be more around every man and his dog having 'adhd' these days, when I think it's often just impatience and a sense of entitlement, and an excuse for poor behavior rather than a genuine need.
We need to be a little bit careful here though. Is it better to risk giving a concession to someone who doesn't need it, or to risk denying one to someone who does?
I don't think there's an easy answer here.
I guess if I'm being blunt, this issue appears to me, to be more around every man and his dog having 'adhd' these days
This (we're probably all on the spectrum somewhere)
suspect the problem is the system is being abused and it's not really helping those that genuinely need the fast pass.
And most definitely this - it was bound to happen TBH. Some people are dicks.
Spooky!. I got down to the third post in this thread and had to check the date on it. I'm sure I've read this whole thread before - maybe 2/3 years ago? I could even anticipate some of the following posts.
Maybe somebody needs to reboot the Matrix?
My experience aligns with Fossy's, I don't think Merlin group is particularly unusual here.
I guess if I'm being blunt, this issue appears to me, to be more around every man and his dog having 'adhd' these days, when I think it's often just impatience and a sense of entitlement, and an excuse for poor behavior rather than a genuine need.
We need to be a little bit careful here though. Is it better to risk giving a concession to someone who doesn't need it, or to risk denying one to someone who does?
I don't think there's an easy answer here.
Yeah I agree completely.
But then that also poses the question of how much onous is on Merlin, or any retailer / restaurant or whatever to accommodate.. The complications will come at an expense to the business.. And if we are to assume some are 'gaming the system'... Which they absolutely are...
Why should that come at a cost to the business in terms of having excessively complex frameworks to make that decision?
I'm well aware that may sound intolerant, but that's not my intention.
Physical medical requirements, that's an easy pass, and correctly so.
It seems to me merlin are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place as it's a bit of a hot potato.
And again at the risk of sounding intolerant, should people really be exposing themselves to busy places on purpose if they know it's going to cause them to get overly agitated?
I think some personal or parental responsibility has to come into this.
I'm scared of heights, but I want to go bungy jumping... Tough crap for me. It's not the bungy jump operators fault or duty to accommodate me.
Theme parks have queues.. It comes with the territory.
If you can't queue up without having a melt down then you probably should be there in the first place.
Does anyone know how they provide proof?
At euro Disney you have to provide government proof like a DLA letter and ID . They do read the whole letter and check the ID to make sure it's legit.
Given the number of kids within our friend group I wouldn't be surprised if the normal queue was now quicker...... /s
Maybe a place like Alton Towers isn't the best choice for kids who don't deal well with being in an environment full of people and stimulation.
Physical medical requirements, that's an easy pass, and correctly so.
How do you feel about people in wheelchairs? That's an "easy pass" but... they're sitting down, surely they can wait longer than able-bodied people. What about someone with a broken leg, they won't have any sort of recognised disability documentation?
And again at the risk of sounding intolerant, should people really be exposing themselves to busy places on purpose if they know it's going to cause them to get overly agitated?
Should people be denied access to a busy place if a few minor changes would make it accessible?
I'm playing devil's advocate here to a degree of course. Point is, as soon as you go "it's simple" it plainly isn't.
Given the number of kids within our friend group I wouldn't be surprised if the normal queue was now quicker...... /s
Yeah, we're getting much better at diagnosing mental health issues earlier now, great isn't it.
Maybe a place like Alton Towers isn't the best choice for kids who don't deal well with being in an environment full of people and stimulation.
See previous post. Shall we just lock them under the stairs instead?
See previous post. Shall we just lock them under the stairs instead?
If needs must..... 😉
Unless you're Austrian in such case you can lock them in your cellar.
Yeah, we're getting much better at diagnosing mental health issues earlier now, great isn't it.
Yeah great, depends on how the diagnosis is used. If it's to help someone understand how they tick and how they can enjoy a fuller life by managing their condition then yes, its good. If it is so someone can wave around a piece paper and expect the world to bend around them not so much.
Like all things there's a spectrum.
Physical medical requirements, that's an easy pass, and correctly so.
How do you feel about people in wheelchairs? That's an "easy pass" but... they're sitting down, surely they can wait longer than able-bodied people. What about someone with a broken leg, they won't have any sort of recognised disability documentation?
And again at the risk of sounding intolerant, should people really be exposing themselves to busy places on purpose if they know it's going to cause them to get overly agitated?
Should people be denied access to a busy place if a few minor changes would make it accessible?
I'm playing devil's advocate here to a degree of course. Point is, as soon as you go "it's simple" it plainly isn't.
I absolutly agree its not simple, I think it's being made more complicated than it really needs to be because of the self-entitlement of some people looking to take advantage and jump the queue, or otherwise 'game' the system.
"my untrained child needs to jump the queue because I'm an incompetent parent, and I don't want to deal with a tantrum" doesn't cut it.
I absolutly agree its not simple, I think it's being made more complicated than it really needs to be because of the self-entitlement of some people looking to take advantage and jump the queue, or otherwise 'game' the system.
It's also being made more complicated by people who are almost completely unaffected by any of this complaining about "some people taking advantage."
In some ways this is a complex issue, but on the other hand the direct result of this decision will mean it will negatively impact those individuals with an autism diagnosis who also have learning disabilities and/or more complex needs and challenging behaviour that genuinely have difficulties queueing for extended periods, as they will simply just not go. Our ASD LD daughter is a adult now, but 20 years a go she went through a phase where she was obsessed with the Bubbleworks ride at Chessington (due to the sensory aspects). We would visit in the early 2000s and pay entrance fees and only go on that ride about 3 or 4 times then leave. When we first went, we would just show a photo of her disabled car badge, but over the next few years we had to bring more and more proof of why she required priority entry (such as DLA letter or social worker or psychiatrist's reports) which was fair enough. I'm sure some might not be able to comprehend this, but without that priority pass we simply wouldn't have been able to go.
There are those that possibly try to abuse the system, but I do think they are a minority (which is overblown by some to justify ignorant views), The real losers will be those who really benefitted from it.
People’s views on fairness are warped (including my own) and we often only see thing from our perspective. Many people understandably do not know the difficulties some people on the autistic spectrum face on a daily basis. If you want to see the reality of how some families are affected by family members on the more extreme end of ASD watch 'I Am Not Okay - Spotlight' on BBC iPlayer (though I suppose even watching that may not change the entrenched views of some!).
I think the increase in ASD diagnosis on the whole is a positive thing for those who receive much needed support from it. It has though meant IME that the autism spectrum has widened further, and sometimes those individuals on the 'lower functioning' (FWOABW) end up being inadvertently negatively impacted due to the increased exposure and greater diagnosis of those on the 'higher functioning' end (again FWOABW).
I think the zeitgeist regarding ADHD and Autism seems to be changing (not for the better). When our daughter was diagnosed in the late 90s information on autism was pretty scarce and the during the 2000s and 2010s there was more awareness, increased diagnosis and seemingly more empathy was being shown to those on the spectrum. It seems now though those with ADHD and Autism are being portrayed by some sections of the press and social media as another 'group' who are all unfairly trying to game the system (much like all immigrants and all teenage mothers!).
When our daughter was diagnosed in the late 90s information on autism was pretty scarce and the during the 2000s and 2010s there was more awareness, increased diagnosis and seemingly more empathy was being shown to those on the spectrum.
It's probably worth mentioning also, the vast majority of research has been done with boys. It's looking like girls present differently and this is poorly understood. So even in the Woke Years your daughter is still on the back foot.
I absolutly agree its not simple, I think it's being made more complicated than it really needs to be because of the self-entitlement of some people looking to take advantage and jump the queue, or otherwise 'game' the system.
It's also being made more complicated by people who are almost completely unaffected by any of this complaining about "some people taking advantage."
cheap shot, and missed the target anyway. 😕
Im not surprised. It seems that more and more people are being diagnosed with some sort of condition now. Whether that becuase its on the rise, better diagnostics or something else is another debate
Something is going on that’s for sure. In primary education, at least in the school my wife teaches at, intake and class sizes are reducing while the percentage of SEND children is rising. Something in the water? 5G? China? Ultra processed food? Whatever it is it is palpable.
Lazy parenting.
Why is my child an insufferable dick? Look in the mirror.
Yep. It's totally the parents' fault that a child has ADHD or/and Autism.
You accused me of a cheap shot and whilst I wasn't having a shot at you at all - I was providing an alternative explanation and I don't know how many times I have to write "devil's advocate" - you're not exactly proving me wrong here if I was.
Something in the water? 5G? China? Ultra processed food?
Greatly improved diagnoses earlier on?
Quite why every rider can't just be given a ticket for a time slot I don't know, those two hours standing in a queue could instead be freed up to be spending money in the rest of the park.
Last time I was in Six Flags in the US, this is exactly how you do it. Turn up at the ride, scan the code with a pager thing, and it queues for you while you take on rides with no lines or go to eat or something. It worked well enough that we were able to hit pretty much every big ride in the park with minimal waiting.
Lazy parenting.
Why is my child an insufferable dick? Look in the mirror
One can only presume youre speaking from first hand experience.
Said it before but I think older parents are a major risk factor alongside better detection. Some studies support the correlation but don't think there's a causal link established yet.
Lazy parenting.
Why is my child an insufferable dick? Look in the mirror.
Wow classy comment......🙄🤔 have you got kids? 😂
I know we shouldn’t feed the hate mongers, but as we are talking in the context of kids with ADHD & ASD diagnoses, do you really beleive all ADHD & Autistic behaviours or traits are simply down to lazy/ bad parenting?
If you do think that, I would genuinely be interested to know how you’ve come to that conclusion and if you’ve had any experience of caring for or teaching kids with ADHD & ASD diagnoses.
On the ride passes; I think everybody having time slots sounds like a good idea.
Last time I was in Six Flags in the US, this is exactly how you do it. Turn up at the ride, scan the code with a pager thing, and it queues for you while you take on rides with no lines or go to eat or something. It worked well enough that we were able to hit pretty much every big ride in the park with minimal waiting.
I bet it's because they don't want to make queueing too easy since selling fast passes is so lucrative.
Something I didn't realise is the 'cheaper' fastpass (still £80 on top of the normal tickets) you can only go on each ride once!