Forum menu
We all know the phrase and I'm sure we've all used it at some point to describe someone who spends a lot of money on new kit they don't really need, usually because they have money and like nice stuff.
And perhaps there isn't really anything wrong with that.
So why does the term exist; what does it really mean or describe; why does being atgni offend us so much?
In short, is there any moral argument against being 'all the gear, no idea'?
It could be jealousy of the money, it could be viewed as a waste of good kit, it could be that you don't need a £8k Santa Cruz to do a blue at Dalby....
When I was in NZ, there were a bunch of gnarly looking young dudes sat outside a cafe admiring their big downhill bikes. They were the cleanest bikes I've ever seen and had probably never been off road. This could fit in with the phrase.
In short, I don't really understand your question, so I'm saying no, there isn't. Or maybe, yes there is. Not sure where morals enter this.
On a side note and as a professional tradesman, I've sometimes used the term when arriving at a job and unloading what feels like half of my workshop to undertake the task at hand, a kind of false humility if you will.
A similar saying a carpenter chap I used to work with was ' I may be slow, but at least I'm crap' Which was mildly amusing the first time...
I think most people, new to a sport or hobby, would start on something basic to dip their toe. If people are really into something, they'll have a go regardess of their equipment. You don't need those £80 shorts to ride a bike.
See also:
-middle age men with Fender Stratocasters
-people splashing loads on running/gym gear
-all of golf
I suppose it's not an insult, just an observation. Nice stuff is nice, but it definitely says somethig about the person if they chuck money at something before they fully understand the situation. Everything that's wrong with our consumerist society? Maybe.
We need these people. How else am I supposed to get practically unused gear for less than half price.
There are two types.
There are the ones who buy the best quality things that they can because they want to give themselves the best chance of improving without being let down by their equipment. They do a bit of research and and get the best kit that will flatter their limited abilities. When I played golf, I was one of these. I bought the most forgiving equipment I could find. Some of it was quite expensive but my game improved as a result.
The other, much more common, type just want to buy stuff because it's the same as the pros so it must be better, right?
The amount of 20+ handicappers I have seen chopping round golf courses with a set of £800 Titleist blades that pros would struggle to hit, carving ProV1 balls at £4 a time into the woods never to be seen again never fails to astonish me......but that's what Tiger does, so it must be cool. Matching bag, shirt, shoes, etc. are usually to be found and is usually a reliable indicator of ATGNI
Bike wise, it's never bothered me. I have two bikes,both were less than £500 each new from Halfords.
I am still massively over biked for my skill / fitness levels.
A Santa Cruz would be utterly wasted on me.
I think it's just jealousy / inverted snobbery
Years ago we used to do a lot of rock climbing & the least competent of our group was always using that phrase regarding other people out there climbing.The odd thing was that he used to love walking around with all the gear,he'd carry everyone else's ropes / racks etc,then we'd get to where we climbing & he'd bottle it as usual..
Isn't this the thing that the presenters of Top Gear often did when they purposely left the price tags on the stuff they had very obviously bough for whatever ridiculous situation they found themselves in (often Extreme Weather/Outdoor gear).
There's also a notion of "Buying" ones performance that wrinkles.
Another odd one that I've always though needs some unpacking, is the very British notion of "A bad workman blames his tools" If for instance you turn up to a DH track and you're on a XC bike; you've very obviously got the wrong thing for the job in hand, why then should it be that it's still "an excuse" if you do badly?
When you don't have any idea, you often make inappropriate buying decision, you buy unsuitable equipment. This is the point. You can have nice expensive equipment that is suitable and nice expensive equipment that is not suitable.
I always thought it meant somebody turning up with all top end gear and then just being crap. When I used to snowboard I bumped in to a guy with all the top kit. Great board, boots, trousers, jacket, gloves, basically everything. He couldn’t even stand up on the board. That, to me, would define the phrase. He’d have been better off investing in lessons.
I wasn’t jealous though. If he wanted to fall over in the best kit, fair play to him.
If for instance you turn up to a DH track and you’re on a XC bike; you’ve very obviously got the wrong thing for the job in hand, why then should it be that it’s still “an excuse” if you do badly?
Dammit, that's me and my rigid SS wheeze rumbled! Blast!
I’m intrigued by this myself. I’ve been mountain biking for over 20 years. I have had a few bikes in my time, notability a Whyte 46 just after it was released when I was probably at my best as a rider. It attracted quite a lot of scorn that I just don’t get on my Soul, from riders who frankly couldn’t back it up.
A few months ago I posted on here asking for advice on a road bike, and got told by several people, quite mockingly, that I the amount I wanted to spend would be a waste. I do at least two serious rides a week on it, and have ridden further in the past few months than I had in the previous four years.
So yes, jealousy seems to come into it, usually from those with no idea...
So why does the term exist; what does it really mean or describe; why does being atgni offend us so much?
It doesn't bother me personally, so I'd question your 'us'. I guess the root of it is that it implies you somehow don't merit the kit you've acquired, which is a pretty fundamental denigration of someone's self-worth.
Why are you asking? It seems fairly obvious?
Materialistic could be a word used to describe these types. That'd likely mean they're shallow aswell. Two poor traits IMO.
Then of course there's the vulgar display of wealth.
I think it's why football's such a good, honest sport. There's no rich mincers to spoil it.
It’s not a concept I allow myself to apply to others. This would be giving in, basically, to jealousy of some kind.
It feels like it applies to me quite often at the moment on the slop-fest that most of my local riding is in winter. Just when I think “yeah, caught that slide beautifully” the next corner end up with me in the brambles or facing in the wrong direction.......
It's really a cheap , fairly thoughtless insult . At what point are you entitled to have the best gear you can afford . As long as you enjoy what you are doing then you may not be very good but perhaps you can notice a small benefit from better kit then why shouldn't you . Cycling has it's own pretty unique class of people who have all the gear but really don't like riding bikes , which , let's be honest can be pretty hard work , sometimes dangerous , pretty soul destroying and sometimes lonely . It ends up that they like the idea of cycling but not the reality .
I think it’s why football’s such a good, honest sport. There’s no rich mincers to spoil it.
It a pitiful thing to witness, the fall of a once great talent, trying to recapture the pomp of their strutting best, but merely staggering about in a punch drunken haze.
Sad sad days....
“I think it’s why football’s such a good, honest sport. There’s no rich mincers to spoil it.”
Well, apart from the entire premier league
I think it’s why football’s such a good, honest sport. There’s no rich mincers to spoil it.
I've always felt the same about ballet. It's the kind of sport where an overweight, middle-aged man can get stuck in with minimum expenditure, just a pair of tights and some dainty shoes.
It a pitiful thing to witness, the fall of a once great talent, trying to recapture the pomp of their strutting best, but merely staggering about in a punch drunken haze.
It's what happens when you upgrade your laptop to a top-end Macbook Pro, seen it so many times on forums, all the gear, no idea.
On the bright side, DTF lives under the finest bridge that money can buy
It’s people in kit way above their ability level
I recently came across a terrible case of this and I'm sure most of you will agree. A grown man who by his own admission bought the biggest and most powerful chainsaw on the market...so he could have a bigger saw than his friend (who is a professional arborist). Now, I'll just mention that he has no formal training or qualifications with chainsaws and is a driving instructor.
Upon seeing a professional arborist cut wood one handed with a top handled saw he went out and bought (you guessed it) the most expensive and powerful top-handled saw on the market. His next purchase, despite advice to the contrary, will be spurs and a climbing harness. He has been told repeatedly that it's better to at least get trained how to climb trees with a chainsaw before just freestyling it. What could possibly go wrong. He is a mountainbiker too by the way and something about his buying habits always bugged me, now I know.
So you see, you really can have all the gear and no idea, and not necessarily because you like nice stuff. And depending on the stuff you buy, you might end up dead. I'm also reminded of the premier league footballer who lives near me who has put a long list of Ferraris and Lambos into fields.
”A bad workman blames his tools” If for instance you turn up to a DH track and you’re on a XC bike; you’ve very obviously got the wrong thing for the job in hand, [b]why then should it be that it’s still “an excuse” if you do badly?[/b]
Because a “good workman” would have brought the right tools.
Simple really.
It exists largely because of jealousy and/or inferiority complexes
“It’s people in kit way above their ability level”
Is there a certified scale? Does it conveniently match up with Shimano groupset levels, or is it a bit like Fahrenheit and Celsius?
When are you allowed to try a 29er?
Yes, that's another good point Jimjam, one-upmanship. Something I forgot from my earlier post.
it's pretty much what anyone with a passing fancy for something does to make them look like an expert if the money allows
I've been playing guitar for 20 years. but I dip in an out and i'm rubbish at it. I play a cheap acoustic and a Squier electric. I dream of a Gibson 4 grand all singing dancing number, but I also know it would be massively wasted on me.
I suppose for some it's all about pose value offset by cost
It exists largely because of jealousy and/or inferiority complexes
Another good point. Generally ATGNI types will be a typical beta male; a poor specimen who'll never amount to much in terms of physical endeavour. How to bridge that gap? Buy a ten thousand pound bike.
>It exists largely because of jealousy and/or inferiority complexes
This.
OMG I'm agreeing with THM,I must be in some sort of right wing neocon parallel universe, where eating the poor for breakfast is mandatory....
Dont worry FF wisdom comes to all in the end 😉
Yup, even in your case 😆
Are you trying to outdo the chief zokes? Still miles behind I’m afraid.
On the bright side, DTF lives under the finest bridge that money can buy
To be fair though, I think he deserves it. At his level the marginal gains really might make a difference . ALGATI ?
Most of the time it's said in jealousy, though there are 2 cases IMO where it's justified. First is someone who buys top of the range gear but has no idea how to use it properly and could get in trouble because of it, e.g. skiier with transponder, abs bag etc heading into the back country. Second is where the person is crap at the sport with high end kit and is a **** about it, e.g. slagging off someone else's gear or lecturing the guy who is twice the rider they are on their skills.
“Is there a certified scale?”
In skiing you see it a lot. Someone on cam just about parallel turn, turns up in some stiff racing boots and racing skis all of which will hinder them. Therefore they have quite literally all the gear and no idea
It’s people being judgemental.
Top end stuff and useless ability but so what? Who cares? Oh wrong forum.
Lets ask the user All the gear no idea - where is our fearless rider?
Cannock has many a shining example of the atgni group. However they are out and riding, all be it slowly at times but sod it they're out. It does make me chuckle when the portable jetwash thing comes out the back of the latest must have car to wash minimal shit off the bike. If you can afford it tho then why not. I'd love a blinged up to **** yeti or some other niche bike and it would probably make me a bit quicker. But I'm happy being in the top strava 10 percent of some stuff I ride (only downhill mind) as do you know what, I'm back to work Monday morning no matter what I ride....
Edited so as not to talk bollox
It's a bit of both.
If you've got no riding experience and go out and buy a 5k bike just because you can afford it, it's going to be better than the equivalent 300 quid bike, even it its more trail than xc or whatever.
Equally it's not the best way to spend as you don't yet know what you like or what you need.
But conversely, a good quality tool makes the job a lot easier. A quality 8mm hex wrench will make an easy job out of one that was impossible with an 8mm wrench from a £5 set. It's a lot more expensive but there's more leverage so it's an easy job.. it fits better so you don't round off bolts or skin your knuckles trying,
It a pitiful thing to witness, the fall of a once great talent, trying to recapture the pomp of their strutting best, but merely staggering about in a punch drunken haze.Sad sad days….
Well, I saw what you did there. And I agree. Pitiful.
All the gear, no idea = person with a better bike than the observer but not perceived as being as good a rider as the observer.
Observer gets smug feeling (or at least I do 🙂 )
People buying expensive stuff is good for the industry, don't really have an issue unless they presume they're a better rider than you because they have spent more in which case it's the law that you have to chase them mercilessly.
Not sure if this applies here..
A few years ago I was riding the longer of the two trails in the FoD and was just at the top of the longest climb, which lets face it, isn't an Alp. There was a bloke standing to the side, barely able to breathe holding a more expensive model of the bike I was on. "You should have bought the carbon one" he wheezed to me as I rode past, indicating his own bike which he seemed completely unable to ride. Yes, I still get a smug glow. 🙂
I always thought it meant somebody turning up with all top end gear and then just being crap. When I used to snowboard I bumped in to a guy with all the top kit. Great board, boots, trousers, jacket, gloves, basically everything. He couldn’t even stand up on the board. That, to me, would define the phrase. He’d have been better off investing in lessons.
I’ve never thought of it as a jealousy thing, more the above, the sort of person who has more money than sense, who will just decide to take up some random hobby/pastime on a whim, because it looks cool, and go and buy the most expensive kit, because it looks cool, indulge in said hobby for a few weeks, really badly, get bored, flog kit cheaply or stick it in the garage, then find another hobby.
I'm assuming this forum is running on top end servers...