[Closed] Alcohol-related admissions to hospitals in England top one-million

Dunno- but they certainly are - many different drugs.

Perhaps you should ask why so many people feel that they need to escape their miserable lives by obliterating themselves for a while?

1 beer is never enough, 2 is too many

"Why are humans apparently so desparate to ingest a drug to the point they need medical treatment for the consequences?'

Pretty simple I think. They form probably two main groups. One does so because the initial stages are fun, remove inhibitions and cause pleasure and they get carried away. The second because they wish to numb the boredom and hatred they have for life in general.

I have been on of those stats, as have most people I'll bet, though I have to say I'm fairly sure it was tree climbing related, not strictly alcohol...

Escapism and self-medication are two that spring to mind. Peer pressure probably a factor as well.

How about encouragement from the people that flog the stuff, corporately and locally?
And that sadly pervasive attitude that "I can do what I like..."

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75% of prisoners in Scotland were using alcohol when the offence was committed - this seems high but the Scottish minister {MSP launching this] said it yesterday whilst annoucing 50 p per unit.

Basically people are stupid , they eat to the point they are obesees, get diabetes, smokes fags,drink too much and hiurt themselves falling of bikes etc

How about encouragement from the people that flog the stuff, corporately and locally?
And that sadly pervasive attitude that "I can do what I like..."

It's not the sellers fault, it's personal responsibility.

Basically people are stupid , they eat to the point they are obesees, get diabetes, smokes fags,drink too much and hiurt themselves falling of bikes etc

Nahh people are really intelligent, we've found a way to trigger our hard-wired pleasure centres very accurately.

75% of prisoners in Scotland were using alcohol when the offence was committed

It seems high because the first thought, as implied, is that all the offences were caused by excessive alcohol consumption.

How many would still have committed the offence without the alcohol?

Don't dispute that alcohol is a problem but the method of recording is greatly skewed by the method of recording of the three people I know who were admitted to hospital this year two were recorded as being alcohol related because both had had a drink in the six hours before the accident.

In one case it was a fall caused by a hip joint giving up due to osteoporosis. The other was a passenger in a car crash. In both cases the 'drink' was a single small glass of wine 2-3 hours before the accident and had no bearing on the accident.

Don't know whether this is a localised over enthusiasm on the case of the hospital or a recording method designed to back up an agenda.

From my own experience of A&E I can see there is a problem, I just don't see why it needs to be inflated by dodgy recording methods

It's not the sellers fault, it's personal responsibility

Disagree entirely - when pubs sell trebles cheaper than singles, it's hardly encouraging sensible drinking is it? Pusher and user both have some responsibility.

Never really understood the peer pressure thing? I have always found it easier to not give in to peer pressure. I've never really been interested in being friends with anyone who insists on me following some stupid "norm" before I will be accepted.

And in other news from 250 years ago.

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Gin, cursed Fiend, with Fury fraught,
Makes human Race a Prey.
It enters by a deadly Draught
And steals our Life away.

Virtue and Truth, driv'n to Despair
Its Rage compells to fly,
But cherishes with hellish Care
Theft, Murder, Perjury.

Damned Cup! that on the Vitals preys
That liquid Fire contains,
Which Madness to the heart conveys,
And rolls it thro' the Veins.

Disagree entirely - when pubs sell trebles cheaper than singles, it's hardly encouraging sensible drinking is it? Pusher and user both have some responsibility.

Pusher? Dear God! Really?

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjCFXcv9NQWhGOgd6vtty_5DE93C7FaLpt5dG6rKiXVLu0hJ14tOvxg4sn [/img]

We may need to ease off slightly on the victorian melodrama 😆

Never really understood the peer pressure thing? I have always found it easier to not give in to peer pressure. I've never really been interested in being friends with anyone who insists on me following some stupid "norm" before I will be accepted.

I suspect you give into peer pressure all the time, but just aren't aware of it. For instance if you're a bloke, you probably don't go to work in a dress. There's zillions of things we do to be socially accepted that we just don't register.
You've registered that drinking is optional and isn't something you want to do despite peers doing it, but I suspect for many people it's an unconsciousness social norm, like not wearing a pink tutu.

[i]it's an unconsciousness social norm, like not wearing a pink tutu[/i]

Damn, why is it only me who doesn't pick up on these things?

*runs off to find a pair of trousers*

Disagree entirely - when pubs sell trebles cheaper than singles, it's hardly encouraging sensible drinking is it? Pusher and user both have some responsibility.

Utter rubbish. You don't have to drink it all, you don't have to down it. You can buy one and sip it for hours instead of buying 3. Why do you think personal responsibility has been removed and passed to the supplier because someone chose to supply larger amount cheaply?

Twaddle. People need to learn a bit of self control and responsibility, though your comments are proof it's pretty lacking and the expectations of it are lacking also.

Is it now the responsibility of car manufacturers to limit cars to 70 too because some people choose to drive fast? Or the responsibility of internet service providers to limit connection time to help prevent porn addiction? Where do you stop?

Basically people are stupid

Nahh people are really intelligent

Yes, but only a very small minority behave intelligently.

Everyone else behaves like a moron.

Twaddle. People need to learn a bit of self control and responsibility, though your comments are proof it's pretty lacking and the expectations of it are lacking also

Yes, it's patently lacking and that's why everyone concerned needs to take a look at how they're behaving. I take it you think cigarette manufacturers behave perfectly ethically? Wise up.

Nick - Member
1 beer is never enough, 2 is too many

Not seen George Orwell paraphrased on here before 8)

Pusher? Dear God! Really?

That was analogy, not melodrama.

Don't dispute that alcohol is a problem but the method of recording is greatly skewed by the method of recording of the three people I know who were admitted to hospital this year two were recorded as being alcohol related because both had had a drink in the six hours before the accident.

+1 I was admited as an alcohol related case as I'd walked through a hedge that was hiding a 7ft ha-ha wall into a car park at 1am, which made a lovely mess of my face! I'd not had a beer since about 8 and that was only a couple.

drinking is cool and a sign of manliness, the more you drink the more of a man you become, every cretin knows this.

I take it you think cigarette manufacturers behave perfectly ethically? Wise up.

I don't know about what's done behind the scenes in production etc, and I don't agree to marketting to chiddlers (as with alcohol), but outside that I have no issues with them either. They make a product that people consume, it's the consumers choice as to whether to consume it or not. There's nothing to wise up to - it's simple, if you choose not to do it in the first place you don't get affected. Assuming someone isn't mentally deficient it's their choice to consume. No-ne elses. No-one forced it on them, THEY are to blame for any outcome. No-one forces me to go MTBing, I'm to blame if I injure myself on some giant drop, not my fork manufacturer who told me they're ace and can handle a 6ft drop. Even though adrenalin is an addictive naturally occuring substance targetted by the market forces that be Marzocchi and On-One.

I don't know about what's done behind the scenes in production etc, and I don't agree to marketting to chiddlers (as with alcohol), but outside that I have no issues with them either

So they put chemicals in cigarettes to make them more addictive. When the educated western markets dry up, they exploit the lack of health education in the east. Just let them get on with it all, eh, and blame the consumer? God help us if we lived in a society where no provider had to take responsibility for the goods they sell or the people to whom they sell.

No-one forces me to go MTBing, I'm to blame if I injure myself on some giant drop, not my fork manufacturer who told me they're ace and can handle a 6ft drop. Even though adrenalin is an addictive naturally occuring substance targetted by the market forces that be Marzocchi and On-One.

What an inane analogy. What if they could sell you a bike that was patently, or latently, dangerous to ride. You'd sharp complain then if you were injured.

What an inane analogy

Not half as spurious as yours. Actually.... you are Paul Dacre and I claim my five [s]Guineas[/s] pounds 😆

So they put chemicals in cigarettes to make them more addictive.

What if they could sell you a bike that was patently, or latently, dangerous to ride. You'd sharp complain then if you were injured.

75% of prisoners in Scotland were using alcohol when the offence was committed

err - well they are in prison an, therefore, not very good at whatever naughty thing they were doing - chances are that alcohol might be involved in making them not very good?

Rachel

Nicotine occours naturaly, it's not an additive

Might be big news to you, but there's a lot more in a fag than nicotine.

What an inane analogy. What if they could sell you a bike that was patently, or latently, dangerous to ride. You'd sharp complain then if you were injured.

No, you're missing the analogy I think. I was analogising with respect to adrenalin - the bike is the tool to get it (much the same as a cigarette is the tool to get nicotine, a beer for alcohol). I choose to ride a bike in a way that produces adrenalin in me, this is dangerous. I'm warned of this when purchasing generally (though it's clearly considered common sense too, another lack these days). Much the same way as most of the western world knows alchohol and cigarettes are dangerous too (3rd world peddling may be a grey area, I'll admit I'm not up to speed on that so won't go there). So:

Beer > alcohol (addictive, can cause injury directly or indirectly) > blame the brewery.
Cigarettes > nicotine (addictive, indirectly all the rest that kill you) > blame the cigs company
Bikes > riding hard produces adrenalin (addictive, actions to get it can kill you)> blame the rider?

Dont get ya. Either take responsibility for your own actions, or don't. your choice.

No, you'd argue it wasn't fit for purpose

Yes, it's not fit for purpose under controls established to protect the consumer from illicit traders. Similarly, controls should exist over what cigarette manufacturers can put in ciggies. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate of personal responsibility, but I'm also a huge advocate of us being able to make choices in full knowledge, not in a cloud of pressure and misinformation from unscrupulous sellers.
Going back to the earlier posts, pubs sell trebles cheaper than singles to get people drunk, because drunk people spend more than relatively sober ones. If that's not the case, and a treble is £2, why won't they sell me a single for 66p??

I was reading this thinking what about mtb'ers too.

Afterall alot of hospitals admissions are through peoples choice ie deciding to drink, deciding to do drugs, deciding to ride a bike.

Mrs FD has said the number of bikers she see's is going up and up (could be related to increased numbers of bikers, or bikers just taking more risks) If your a none professional biker then why should you push yourself to the extent you get injured?

If your a none professional biker then why should you push yourself to the extent you get injured?

Some of us just don't get pleasure out of anything unless we're pushing ourselves to improve. If you keep pushing yourself eventually you're going to get injured.

Edit: Could be seen the same way when it comes to drink. Many people come from a culture where being able to drink more and not let it affect you is seen as being an impressive thing. Drinking is like anything else, to get good at it you need to practice.

Same with drink then isn't it....

Going back to the earlier posts, pubs sell trebles cheaper than singles to get people drunk, because drunk people spend more than relatively sober ones. If that's not the case, and a treble is £2, why won't they sell me a single for 66p??

Yep, that's entirely the case. If you're daft enough to drink enough to let it affect your senses noteably you'll spend more. And probably regret it in the morning and blame the pub for offering you much cheapness. Sad isn't it. We have probably all done it but we don't have to, plenty of people choose not to drink or can have just one or two and have a great night out.

If that's not the case, and a treble is £2, why won't they sell me a single for 66p??

Are you 16? Are you familiar with the concept of [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism ]capitalism[/url]?

Yes people should have personal responsibility but so should people selling booze (unlikely). If marketing/advertising and drinks promotions had no effect why do drinks companies spend so much money on it? Coupled with the rise of 'vertical drinking' establishments that deliberately play the music so loud you can't talk so drink more.

Yes I avoid those places like the plague too, but I think it's very naive to deny any impact of booze marketing/sales techniques.

So, using your logic, if you end up with high cholesterol, then its the fault of Tesco....

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I really shouldn't have had that second packet of cheese strings 🙂

I kinda agree with what your saying generally but

If that's not the case, and a treble is £2, why won't they sell me a single for 66p??

There's atleast 1 bar in town that is £1 any drink, now they may just be trying to get everyone drunk in order to spend money or they may just be doing it to shift a shedload of "units" as quickly as possible

grum - Member
Yes people should have personal responsibility but so should people selling booze (unlikely). If marketing/advertising and drinks promotions had no effect why do drinks companies spend so much money on it?

deliberately play the music so loud you can't talk so drink more.

So, using your logic, if you end up with high cholesterol, then its the fault of Tesco....

Well lots of public health organisations and charities would say supermarkets could do a lot more to help encourage healthy eating. But that might eat into their massive profits and we can't have that obviously (as we stumble towards an obesity/diabetes crisis that will supposedly bankrupt the NHS).

I think your buddy CMD agrees that regulation is for losers though thankfully.

The same arguments regarding the effect of advertising were repeated over and over again in relation to cigarettes which is why we see no tobacco advertising now.

IIRC smoking levels are declining? Possible correlation?

hadn't realised that, sneaker ****ers, surprised they don't do a side line in strepsils aswell, always end up with a sore throat after shouting myself hoarse in those places.

Yup. Deliberate lack of seats too to pack people in and when you're standing up you drink faster apparently.

I thought this was going to be a run-down of the 'Top One Million Alcohol-Related Hospital Admissions'.

Imagine my disappointment when I founod out otherwise.

I was looking forward to seeing what the best ones were and was ready to praise whoever had compiled the list for their tenacity.

To be honest, no-one actually knows what the level of alcohol related admissions to A&E is. It is all based on the coding of the notes that we make. After seeing every patient the docs have to do some sort of coding to say what was wrong with the patient and what treatment they received (it's how the department gets paid). If the doc puts that the attendance was related to alcohol then this goes down as an alcohol related attendance.

However, doctors are notoriously bad at coding (they either can't be arsed or forget or are too busy) and thus the number of alcohol related attendances is probably underestimated.

However, we are a bout to start another alcohol related study at my department (bit of a theme here). We are planning to breathalise every patient that comes through the door at random times of the day and night. We should therefore be able to get a true reflection of the number of alcohol related attendances. (Although what you class as related to the alcohol consumed and what is people who would have turned up anyway but just happen to have had a couple of rinks is an entire other argument.)

Dr D - who will the person be who's actually breathalysing people. I wouldn't fancy that job in A&E on a Saturday night 😯

So if you don't fancy getting breathalysed do you get kicked out?

Surely a better idea, given the restrictions on NHS funding, would be to put a bar in the waiting for A&E to raise a few funds. You'd need to go easy on the BOGOF deals on WKD obviously.

i broke my ankle falling over in the street on the way to the pub, that got marked down as alcohol related !!

What DrD said. Ambulance crews do the same re recording and it is very hit or miss as to the accuracy of the figures.
The % of direct alcohol involvement is huge at certain times.
To give an example, last Saturday night shift I did 7, out of the 9 patients had alcohol as a major factor in either falling over or fight related injuries. The person injured in the fight may also not be recorded as alcohol related even the the person who caused the injury had been, so the figures can be skewed in that direction too.

life can be very difficult for people. It is getting more difficult for people. people are escaping with booze.You don't get the ordinary pisshead/crackhead/prostitute opinion on life on this forum, nonetheless their opinion is just as valid. I don't think this forum is skewed to a caring opinion about the "lesser" people in our society, and you won't see that in the paper/internet.

On a similar but different note to the intended post, I have no idea how they get these statistics easily, as in pretty much every A&E I've worked in, although you may write "in drink" in the notes, there isn't a code* for alcohol induced.

DrP

*coding is the way hospitals get paid, and states what it is you came in with, and what you had done. It's also a way of auditing the presentations to ed.....

Having been in hospital* in a ward full of men in their forties with seriously ****ed one more drink may cause total liver failure and kill you problems I've been very wary if drinking to excess.

* in my case not for liver problems

DrP - Ours used to have alcohol related as a code, but our new shiney electronic system doesn't.

And as for those that refuse the breathalyser, it is to be decided by the senior nurse and doc on shift whether they have been drinking or not.

"Why are humans apparently so desparate to ingest a drug to the point they need medical treatment for the consequences?'

Answers here.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Rise-Fall-Third-Chimpanzee/dp/0099913801

People just enjoy getting high. Its always been the way. Alcohol is a nice drug in moderation with enjoyable rituals surrounding it. It has the potential for addiction and can ruin lives. Someone who never drinks alcohol is a rare thing in our society

Might be big news to you, but there's a lot more in a fag than nicotine.

Yup, flavourings mostly, and stuff that make's them 'smoke'. At uni we did a project on additives in various consumer products (everything from condoms to shampoo, cigarets, and toothpaste). They all have an anti loby who will tell you that the ingredients are going to kill you, especialy toothpaste!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/sci_tech/features/health/tobaccotrial/inacigarette.htm

I'm not goignt o argue that smoking is good, or that tobaco companies are virtuous. But I do think an unhealthy level of blame is heaped on them rather than the consumer.

it's interesting to me that alcohol related admissions should be so centred around a&e. a wander round the medical wards where i work, far less the GI wards, would reveal a goodly number of inpatients, many of whom are frequent flyers all accompanied by the usual quota of ascites, drains, alba and encephalopathies. not only that the hdu is getting to the point where we might as well just have a designated alcohol and its many problems bed.

someone who never drinks alcohol wopuld be rare? er, that would be me but, given the above, i've got reason

I don't 'get' it. Have I been drinking responsibly all my life?!

I've been hammered soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many times.

Yet I've NEVER ended up in A&E as a consequence.