[Closed] Ahhh the moral absolutism of religion

I don't think anyone has tarred all religious people with the same brush yet.

I have no useful contribution to make

Cougar - Moderator

Islam doesn't seem to have these ethical dilemmas,not in Saudi anyway

I'm not exactly seeing what Islam has to do with that story, other than it being in Saudi.

I don't know, as an example of an evangelizing atheist and someone I don't particularly like?

The thread seems to be a vehicle for your own prejudices

The thread seems to be a vehicle for your own prejudices

Your offended by my problem with Dawkins?

surfer - Member

I think most people can empathise with the suffering they are trying to inflict on her even if they think she is deluded in her belief.

In a nutshell.

Your offended by my problem with Dawkins?

I'm not offended at all, why should I be. He appears to have offended you however.

Youve created the straw man

evangelizing atheist and someone I don't particularly like?

I'm not offended at all, why should I be. He appears to have offended you however.

Youve created the straw man

Whatever.

Bwaarp I may have overstated slightly about tarring with the same brush but the very first comment after your original post was this

Rapists do well in the catholic church so it's no surprise.

That's just blatantly offensive and it does suggest that the whole church is like this.

I don't think anyone has tarred all religious people with the same brush yet.

Practising catholics think it is better for a 9 year old girl to die during labour taking her unborn fetuses with her rather than have a life saving operation . Practising catholics think that the mother who consents to her childs life being saved and the Dr who saves the child should not be in their gang .

That's just blatantly offensive and it does suggest that the whole church is like this.

Apologies on that posters behalf Geetee as I started this thread. I can understand why you would find that offensive.

I do however think that some of the followers could do more to push for change in catholic church though.

But that's a long way from trying to tar all Catholics.

The mod's should lock this thread - I don't want to hurt the community by making you all bitter at each other.

Apologies to all.

I applaud you Bwaarp and thank you. I was brought up catholic but lapsed a long time ago and now consider myself an atheist but my parents are still very much in the church as are a lot of people I care about.

I didn't lapse because of the terrible indiscretions of the church but it certainly made it easier.

I applaud you Bwaarp and thank you. I was brought up catholic but lapsed a long time ago and now consider myself an atheist but my parents are still very much in the church as are a lot of people I care about.

I didn't lapse because of the terrible indiscretions of the church but it certainly made it easier.

It's ok mate, I understand this is a sensitive issue and better left out of a forum to be dealt with in other avenues of public discourse.

It's in the interests of the community for members to be able to come on to the forum and not see things that are hurtful.

It was stupid of me to write the OP in the first place - I reported my thread so it should be locked soon.

dawkins is right --one day all this will be seen for what it is, infantile disorder....

Please don't apologise on my behalf. It is a fact, a well proven fact, that the catholic church has a long history of the sexual and mental abuse of children including rape and the extensive covering up that abuse by those at the highest levels, hence my comment. It is not levelled at all Catholics simply at the Catholic Church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

terrible indiscretions

Joolsburger I'm catholic, I went to a catholic primary school.. You really don't need to explain it to me. The word 'church' means everyone in it. The 'church' did not do these things. Individuals did these things and other individuals covered it up. I found your comments deeply offensive.

don't you guys ever get bored of this?..

Humans, so highly evolved with their endless chittering..

[img] [/img]

Kevevs i get bored of hypocrisy and I get bored with morons like joolsburger betraying their bigotry.

To go off on a wee tangent - the Vatican is the most disgusting place I've ever been to. The high altar being the worst part of it. Such extravagance when there's people starving and in poverty - sickened me to the core.

If everytime an organisation/group did something we had to add caveats about how it was individuals within that organisation we would be here for ever

Football fans rioted - what all of them everywhere?

Cyclists involved in a race - what every cyclist in the world turned up to race etc

It should be clear when someone means the church as a political hierarchical organisation or all the worshippers within the worshippers/believers tbh.

Its clear the church, in some areas, did turn a blind eye to these /try to hide them lest the churches image was harmed and some cases at a very high level indeed.

If i say the catholic church was guilty of systematically covering up child abuse would i really need to point out that I dont mean every single catholic in the world for clarity?

Junkyard you've just defended the very premise for prejudice by saying that you don't feel the need to differentiate between the guilty individuals and the group they belong to.

So unless you don't want to be a hypocrite I would say yes, you should differentiate.

[i]Can I also just say that the way some people and tarring the whole church because of the comments of a few is blatant prejudice. It's a bit like saying all black men are rapists because of one report of that happening.[/i]

Black men don't convince a large group of other black men that rape is acceptable.

It is not the members of the church who are bad, they for the most part simply have some beliefs. It is the evil and stupid few who lead the church who pour tar all over their followers by making statements like this idiot in Mexico has.

Black men don't convince a large group of other black men that rape is acceptable.

What you don't think that there aren't examples of that in black culture? You're not going to have to look very deeply to find exactly that and a lot of other pretty unacceptable prejudicial ideas. You think black culture is uniformly accepting of homosexuality?

I am not defending what members of the Catholic Church did. My own personal experiences put me on the side of the
Victims. But I am not on the side of hypocrisy.

To go off on a wee tangent - the Vatican is the most disgusting place I've ever been to. The high altar being the worst part of it. Such extravagance when there's people starving and in poverty - sickened me to the core.

I thought the Vatican was ace - was well impressed with Michelangelo's fancy ceiling.

What were you expecting glupton - why did you go ?

Well mods....I did ask....

bwaarp - Member

Well mods....I did ask....

Mark doesn't like religion so expect this to roll on for 20 plus pages.

Rank hypocrisy

Calling someone who disagrees with you a bigoted moron, are you sure you're not still a catholic? I'll give you one thing, you are certainly committed. I'm not biting defend them if you want, doesn't change a thing.

Junkyard you've just defended the very premise for prejudice by saying that you don't feel the need to differentiate between the guilty individuals and the group they belong to.

Can you actualy read - where did I say this ?
I say the statements dont mean what you wish to interpret them as

I say you are seeing prejudice and statements that are just not there and failing to understand what people mean
Phrases such as "church" are used all the time
Catholic church opposes gay marriage - do you think you will get hits from google on that for example?
and you should be able to differentiate as to what it refers to [ church as an organisation or church as in ALL followers]- if you cannot then you are going to see prejudice and offence everywhere

So unless you don't want to be a hypocrite I would say yes, you should differentiate.

Egyptians protest - what they are all protesting every last one of them even the govt

I could be here all night giving you examples where we all know what they mean

[i]What you don't think that there aren't examples of that in black culture? You're not going to have to look very deeply to find exactly that and a lot of other pretty unacceptable prejudicial ideas. You think black culture is uniformly accepting of homosexuality?[/i]

I don't think any of these things are deeply embedded in black culture at a senior leader level, no. I think there may be *very* small groups in any cultural group that may hold unacceptable beliefs. What I don't think is that there is an institutionalised ethos of socially unacceptable ideals being indoctrinated to massive groups of largely impressionable people who have most often joined for help, guidance and support.

Mark doesn't like religion

Does that explain the seeming lack of rules on here about religious intolerance and anti religious ranting ?

YES! It's evolving into a racism debate!

Where's my popcorn.

What is intolerant about stating a fact in regard to an organisation who have at the highest levels (including the current pope), time and time again, been proven complicit in the systemic, organised and ongoing rape and abuse of children and the vulnerable all over the world. If criticising them makes me a bigot then so be it, I can live with myself.

Is this some sort of attempt to get the thread locked by goading/criticising the owners or something?

I have no idea what his religious beliefs are bit think they had little do with these threads or the frequency