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Considering that's what scientists have been saying ever since I can remeber, what makes them think the public, political and economic systems we have will listen now.....
Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309
Requires the politicians of the world to co-operate, and is therefore doomed to fail.
And was followed on the radio news about young people being unable to buy houses even with 10% deposit.
The think tank solution - build more houses even on green belt - joined up thinking?
An economy based on growth and house building will not be sustainable.
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">An economy based on growth and house building will not be sustainable.</span>
What other economy can there be. Assuming population growth.
People don't care enough to do anything about it. Politicians won't do anything about it as it's not a vote winner. Businesses won't do anything about it as it will lessen profits. Can't see much getting done about it.
40 years ago when I was a young sales rep working for Findus..I got chatting to a random customer in a North Eastern Co-op store on Heaton Road in Newcastle ..
The guy was a bit of an oddball but there were two things that he said to me back then that have stuck with me ..the first was with regard to climate change ( although it didn't have that moniker back then ) ..he said that in 200 years time Newcastle would be submerged and Hexham would be known as Hexham -by - the Sea..( Hexham is approx 25 miles inland ) ..
The other little nugget was that vitamin C would help to ward off cancer ..
I walked away thinking the bloke was a complete and utter nutter !...
Now..it makes me wonder ..
Maybe he was a time traveller !😁
he said that in 200 years time Newcastle would be submerged
...it's not all bad news then!
Businesses won’t do anything about it as it will lessen profits. Can’t see much getting done about it.
Pollution and energy waste/use costs business money, most I know are going through significant energy efficiency and reclamation projects along with renewable self generation.
Business and people will lead politicians on this one.
The other little nugget was that vitamin C would help to ward off cancer
Was it Linus Pauling (otherwise brilliant scientist who went a bit bonkers over Vitamin C) or maybe he was just quoting him..
He was maybe just quoting him ..he was oddball ..but looking at the pic of Linus that you posted ..not that oddball..
Scientists politely urge ‘act now, idiots’
I can't think of any more effective way to ensure buy-in than calling the people you want to join your cause 'idiots' 🙂
Well we are creating the Sixth Mass Extinction, why not carry on and let whatever habits the earth after us .. habitate it.
🤷♂️
Nothing humans can do now apart from watch and enjoy the spectacle.
It's the solution to The Fermi Paradox
All intelligent civilisations eventually reach a level of technological advancement sufficient to destroy themselves.
And then they do.
imo the fermi paradox is an just another excuse for our own demise, and based on human experience alone.
I can’t think of any more effective way to ensure buy-in than calling the people you want to join your cause ‘idiots’
I know but as this is the first time they have raised the issue of man made climate change we should give them a bit of slack. Maybe by the time they have brought it up for the millionth time they will have a more polished message 😉
And was followed on the radio news about young people being unable to buy houses even with 10% deposit.
The news is with a 10% deposit they could not afford a property. When I got my flat they wanted a 30% deposit then would lend me 120k. Down to some affordability risk assessment.
Unfortunately it's hard to envisage a world without economic growth. It's what the whole financial house of cards is based upon. Something has to give and environmental meltdown will bring down the banks anyway, so they are betting on future technology to come to our rescue.
I do think we are doomed.
But if you could persuade businesses there is economic growth to be had by not burring fossil fuels there may be a slim chance of keeping the warming to something like 2 or 3%.
Current politics wont do it.
It will take a non political leader in business to make it socially unacceptable to not be green. Or some finance bods to come up with a scheme to make green investments pay more than burning fossil fuels.
Still very little likelihood of that happening, so enjoy the environment now, its already starting to change and soon it will be very different.
Buisness are certainly not all on board with energy saving - look at how lit up our city centres are at night with building lit up externally and internally.
Politicians will only pursue policies that keep them in power and businesses will only make, produce or provide things people want, i.e things that will make a profit.
This is really down to the public to act and that starts with an individual making a conscious decision to change their habits.
However there needs to be clear information on what individuals can do, e.g. is getting the bus and train to work really better than a car? Should I buy that product over another product, or not buy either?
Buisness are certainly not all on board with energy saving – look at how lit up our city centres are at night with building lit up externally and internally.
A significant majority are though as most understand that every light bulb is costing them money. People I am working with are doing energy audits all around the place, offices may be last on the list but industrial sites and factories are a top priority.
We are quizzed on environmental policy and waste management during tenders as companies want visibility as to what happens to stuff once it's passed on to a supplier.
Politicians will only pursue policies that keep them in power and businesses will only make, produce or provide things people want, i.e things that will make a profit.
And for a business to produce something with the least amount of waste (which you have paid to purchase then pay to dispose of) with the least amount of energy (which you pay for) and distribute in the most efficient way (as you pay for that)
Supermarkets are a good example with better loading of trucks and more efficient distribution centres down to having doors on the chiller cabinets to make them more efficient. New tesco stores had solar and wind with water capture going on so progress is being made there/
Very depressing on a Monday morning.
Looks like it'll all go a bit "Hunger Games".
i was thinking about this on my (cycling) commute this morning. And grew despondent.
It's all very well asking the population to help out, but there's only so much the average Joe can do. It definitely needs more of this:
It will take a non political leader in business to make it socially unacceptable to not be green. Or some finance bods to come up with a scheme to make green investments pay more than burning fossil fuels.
The average carbon footprint of a European is about 10 tonnes a year. A transatlantic return flight can be about 3 tonnes per person. I've got mates who do that several times a year on business. One friend flies most weeks. They can tonk out more carbon in a month than I do in a year. Most feel vaguely guilty about it, "but it's for work, what can you do?"
I barely drive, I can't replace any more lightbulbs, I don't have kids or a dog or a big house. I could perhaps spend money I don't have on solar panels, but what's the bloody point? One new international business conference, or fashion show, or film festival will outweigh that a million times over. At some point we'll have to stop expecting consumers to subsidise the rich and the business class. But I don't really know what that will have to look like. A massive tax on kerosene would hit Average Joe and his 2 weeks a year in Spain just as much, and probably wouldn't feel very fair.
I dunno. Sorry for the whinge...
Pollution and energy waste/use costs business money, most I know are going through significant energy efficiency and reclamation projects along with renewable self generation.
Ten years ago, the chemicals lab I was working in was outfitting a new wing and they asked us what we'd like to see in it. Lots of suggestions - a wind turbine on the roof, solar panels on the roof and I suggested a water recirculating system for the condensers and coolers.
All of it got rubbished - oh we don't have time for that, need to get everything in place urgently, producation has to start in 2 months time...
A month after production began, the company got fined £50,000 for putting too much water down the drains - something that a water re-circ system would have completely avoided. Cost of that system to install from scratch in a new-build lab would have been about £6000.
They don't care - environmental concerns, especially long term ones come in a very distant "we'll think about it" when set against short term profit. Politicians don't care either since long-term projects aren't a vote winner - everyojne wants something NOW not in 15 years time.
TBH I think we're already too late. The political and social systems are just too slow to change. But then again maybe my attitude is part of the problem - we've all been told about this for so long and nothings changed that we assume it's aforgone conclusion.
Just look at the resent sifi books and disaster movies - they're all post apocalyptic, or leave the already f'd up planet for a new one. There is never any media that portrays a fixed world where we actually did or are doing something about this. In the 70's, 80's and 90's there were many more films that showed a 'fixed' world - can't think of one in the 00's.
I should be bringing up my daughter in a macgyver meat Bear Grills kinda way rather than sitting around watching Watfu on Netflix with her....
Ten years ago, the chemicals lab I was working
They don’t care – environmental concerns, especially long term ones come in a very distant “we’ll think about it” when set against short term profit. Politicians don’t care either since long-term projects aren’t a vote winner – everyojne wants something NOW not in 15 years time.
I see a very different attitude these days to 10 years ago, projects like the ones you are talking about are going head.
Most people on here drive a diesel vehicle to a trail centre every weekend, fly 2 or three times a year on holiday and burn a woodburner for fun.
WE are the idiots they are talking about in that report so don't kid yourselves.
No one has yet mentioned the most obvious fix of all.
There are far too many humans on this planet; rich westerners, disenfranchised city poor, subsistence farmers and everything in between.
Our growth is wholly unsustainable. We need a major re-set of expectations; stop breeding vast and increasing numbers of new humans. To even the thickest politician, it must be obvious that we cannot keep on growing more people indefinitely, we have to stop before there is no where left to stand. Nor water to drink and air fit to breathe.
I knew 40 years ago that I didn't want to breed any more rich westerners in my name; better to help the ones who are already here live more enjoyable and productive lives.
A predicted slowing population, automation and cleaner energy have the potential to revolutionise capitalism, as old economic models will die off and humans will have less and less to contribute to society. However, if - as the IPCC predict - we're already on course for a 3C rise, it's all too little, too late.
fly 2 or three times a year on holiday and burn a woodburner for fun.
there was a thread on here a short while ago where you could "boast" about how many airports you had been to. Many could not hide their glee 😉
there was a thread on here a short while ago where you could “boast” about how many airports you had been to.
I think I posted, the majority of mine were for work but I try and tag holiday on to that to make the most of the travel.
To balance some of that out I've not owned a car for over 3 years now, use public transport as much as I can, walk and cycle most places and don't have a wood burner.
I also spend a lot of my working life trying to make businesses more efficient.
One of the main ways is which we humans contribute to society is by consuming, hence economic growth demands increased population, automatons don't go shopping.
We could adopt the proposal of:
Eat the Rich.
Wasn’t that an option mooted by some Punk group or other 🤪💃
Eating the rich is not sustainable, now eating the poor.....
It won't be climate change that gets us, the human race is rapidly getting weaker and sicker, a pandemic of epic proportions is on the horizon, might even sort out the climate change conundrum.
hence economic growth demands increased population, automatons don’t go shopping.
Hence the 2nd biggest challenge of the century to avoid violent revolution and find a way for people to live when manual labour becomes near obsolete.
Just look at the resent sifi books and disaster movies
This is my go-to for how the future will look also 😀
It's not about how it'll 'look' - more about how pop culture influences public opinion and subsequent actions, or inaction.
you've been able to buy green energy for some time, it's a matter of choice. also read an article a few months ago about the rise of green energy overtaking an supplanting fossil in the foreseeable, leading fossil fuel extraction operations in danger of having 'stranded assets' - extraction equipment which no-one has any use for any more. is the situation serious? yes, at least for those with kids. is nothing changing? no. is it changing fast enough? only time will tell i guess.
It's not entirely true that economic growth is incompatible with stopping climate change.
Point of order: It wasnt the scientists that said 'Act now idiots,' but an 'observer from greenpeace' commenting on the repprt.
It really is quite a key piece of work as up until today the most quoted danger level was 2deg C above pre-industrial temps. They are now saying 1.5 dg C. Since we are currently at 1 deg above pre-industrial temps thats just cut our buffer in half.
I encourage peopl to actually read the headline statements (about three pages):
Or if you have a little mroe time, the summary for policy makers:
Hence the 2nd biggest challenge of the century to avoid violent revolution and find a way for people to live when manual labour becomes near obsolete.
Agreed.
And I'd say that this and the first challenge are very closely related, given that most labour now is obsolete and is undertaken largely because of the deeply held belief that everybody should work 5-days-a-week to earn a living, hence all the 'bullshit' jobs and entirely socially unproductive economic activity. All the labour and the stress it causes results in enormous amounts of unnecessary environmental impacts, too.
Take an overstressed office worker that sits in a unnecessary building all day working on useless tasks, requiring lighting, air conditioning, heating, unhealthy snacks to salvage some sensory pleasure from the majority of the day, etc., finishing work and driving to the gym to avoid (or at least mitigate) obesity, and the energy intensive medical care that would entail, then returning home to ready meals and... actually, you get the picture...
Anyway, I'm not so sure businesses will lead the way and solve the problem though. Energy efficiency has been increasing ever since the industrial revolution began, as energy has always cost something. But a large part of those energy savings (perhaps all of them) go into boosting the economy further and, from a climate change perspective, offsetting much of the gains.
It's the difference between 'relative decoupling', i.e. getting more GDP for less energy and carbon emissions, and 'absolute decoupling', i.e. actually reducing emissions while growing an economy.
The latter hasn't happened anywhere to my knowledge. It sometimes looks that way, like in the UK where emissions have fallen without the economy shrinking, but it always turns out to be the obvious artefact of a country deindustrializing and simply importing all the stuff it wants from elsewhere, thus avoiding recording the impacts on their own environmental accounts.
Some economist summarised this nicely in the US, saying they're been more successful at decoupling well-being from economic growth than carbon emissions...
(i.e. well-being has stalled while the economy continues to grow, but emissions are still rising, albeit at a slightly slower rate by some measures)
It won’t be climate change that gets us, the human race is rapidly getting weaker and sicker
Except, they have also become more intelligent. I'd rather the planet was full of more intelligent people than stone age brutes worshipping sky god's and sacrifing virgins - cheers.
Why are they brutes, just because they're from the stone age?
Sacrificing of virgins is something I'd suspect is far more characteristic of monotheistic religions developed since the advent of major civilisations, than the animist-type religions of hunter-gatherers that may be expected in the stone age.
And hunter-gatherers are as likely to ridicule their God's as to praise them... Which can hardly be said of the contemporary religions of us apparently more intelligent types