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Having been into that sort o’thing many years ago before deciding it’s all bollocks I’d say weird views about the ‘occult’ can be pretty rife amongst the evangelical Christian movements, and that’s before you get to the craziness of cults and the like.
Personally I’d just accept that they’re fairly harmless nutters and go along with it to avoid stress!
Kids will always end up making their own minds up sooner or later, indoctrination or not, and evangelical Christians do at least believe in love and generally being nice to each other, so it could be worse!
a penis shaped gun
Officer I was just cleaning it and it went off in my hand
evangelical Christians do at least believe in love and generally being nice to each other, so it could be worse!
It'd be interesting to tell them your brother is marrying their boyfriend and see how much love and general niceness you get back.
Either accept and ignore or see it as an opportunity for some sport.
Vritually every argument yet for the existence of a monotheistic Christian God is a fallacy ridden mess. It's worth understanding some of the basic ones,
From the classic "I believe in God because the bible says so", which begs the question "Why do you believe the bible?" For which the textbook answer is "It's the WORD OF GOD".
If you get a smarter one just ask them to describe God, each of the attributes can be bashed on the head pretty quick. "God is infinite". So, the shit you did this morning is part of God? "No, don't be silly". "Well he isn't infinite then is he?"
Etc. They've all been written down for about 300years, with the added bonus you don't get hung, drawn and quartered for saying them these days.
If anyone absolutely refutes the existence of god fullstop then I'd really like to hear your reasoning because most of the arguments are also a fallacy ridden mess.
dangeourbrain, are you our florist?!
Thanks for replies so far, some really interesting comments. In terms of beliefs and churches, they have just started doing their own Sunday school and church service at their own house, as they fell out with their old pastor (which is a recurring theme). So, no one is challenging their views at all, which I find quite scary.
chewk, it is funny you have said those things, as it has been panic attacks, paralysis of one arm and slurring of speech that she has been taken to hospital for. At first, Drs thought it could have been a stroke, but after many many tests and scans, they cannot find anything wrong. Unfortunately, she thinks the answer to all these issues is to just...pray. Which probably in turn is making it worse.
BTW- I had no say in the flowers and a flower wand (and a wand apparently is easier for a 3 year old to carry than a bunch of flowers, so I am told) another edit, the heart at the end is also something they are disputing. She apparently does not like the heart shape as a symbol.
She apparently does not like the heart shape as a symbol.
Don’t use a heart shape, then. Use a real heart. You’ll get your reward in heaven if you can get the child to bite into it and grin manically at the believers. 😁
I'd be booking a magician for the reception.
I am pushing for some sort of Pagan sacrifice at the wedding now!
I am pushing for some sort of Pagan sacrifice at the wedding now!
Blood eagle in the name of Odin!
😀 😛
dangeourbrain, are you our florist?!
You said wedding which is florist* for "pick a high end of sensible number and put a 0 on the end."
*see also hotels and restaurants.
The daftest thing with this, is while its called a 'wand' does she really think a wand with a heart shape at the top is in anyway connected to 'magic and make believe'??
The daftest thing with this, is while its called a ‘wand’ does she really think a wand with a heart shape at the top is in anyway connected to ‘magic and make believe’??
No crazier than my MiL thinking that Harry Potter films are somehow satanic.
Crazyjenkins, I am afraid so.
chewk, it is funny you have said those things, as it has been panic attacks, paralysis of one arm and slurring of speech that she has been taken to hospital for. At first, Drs thought it could have been a stroke, but after many many tests and scans, they cannot find anything wrong. Unfortunately, she thinks the answer to all these issues is to just…pray. Which probably in turn is making it worse.
Yes, this sounds weird as doctor has given her all clear. She might want to check again with other doctors to confirm there is nothing physically wrong with her health.
She can pray (only temporary remedy during the prayer) but she must be strong in her mind too (guard her mind strongly) as any sense of fear or weaknesses will cause more problems. Fear can cause all sort of things as in panic attack, increase heart beat (due to fear), pain in the chest etc ...
Note that people with scientific persuasion has a very strong belief in science and their mind is strong (guarded) hence they are also very good or strong at blocking or Not being "influenced" by the invisible beings. The invisible beings don't like messing with them because there is no fun in doing so because of their stubbornness or strong will.
Tell her Not to fear them but be steadfast in her belief whatever that is. Live life as normal but not stray away from the good. I think "they" are playing with her minds. Sometimes it will last for a while but sometimes it will last for years for entire life until she sort it out with the help from someone specialise in dealing with such invisible entity(s).
The invisible entity(s) can reside in a person in areas such as back of the head, chest (heart area), stomach, groin area, lower back, feet and arms. Until they are cast out she will have problems in these areas depending on where the entity(s) stays.
Oh ya, if she start hearing voices often (a bit like schizophrenia) then the symptom is getting worse. Again, check with doctor first and find out if she has such gene.
Ultimately, she needs to cast them out if she is really being messed around by the invisible entity. All she needs to do is to find a priest that specialises in this field. The practice is simple and No mambo jumbo weird stuff. Just reading from the holy scripture plus sprinkle with holy water. All these must be done by a PROPER true priest (not con artist) and usually No money or sexual favour is exchanged.
Note that there is logic to all this even if this does not sound scientific. If the priest is "powerful" then after the casting out she will feel well instantly or within few days or short period of time. Sometimes the priest will have to perform the cleansing for a few times depending on the entity(s).
Try this simple remedy to see if it works ... this is only temporary and will last for few days.
Mix the followings: (amount depending on your liking)
Coarse sea salt (must be coarse sea salt)
Black pepper cone (whole)
Black vinegar (traditional ones will do)
Then sprinkle around the house or surrounding compound see if there is some improvements. Certain invisible entity(s) don't like this mixture ... not sure if it is due to the smell or the acidity etc of the mixture. I need to find out the reason sometimes ...
The daftest thing with this, is while its called a ‘wand’ does she really think a wand with a heart shape at the top is in anyway connected to ‘magic and make believe’??
Well they are a bit summerisle in honesty, though I doubt Britt Ekland would be so welcome at the wedding.
Oh ya, ask them about their recent dreams.
It’ll take the kids decades to break free from that crap
Getting on for half of the kids I went to school with who came from seriously proscriptive religious families either had children of their own or spectacular drug habits by the time they were eighteen so breaking free doesn’t seem to be an issue. It's more avoiding massively exaggerated teenage rebellion.
Does she wear mascara Mrwhyte? Cos if she does, you could always drop in conversation they use wands to apply, and see what she says, just for some sport like!
She can pray (only temporary remedy during the prayer) but she must be strong in her mind too (guard her mind strongly) as any sense of fear or weaknesses will cause more problems.
You might not realise you're doing it, but that's the same form of dodgy argument Believe in god because bible/Bible is the word of god.
Prayer with sufficient strength will fix it
If it is not fixed the prayer is not strong enough
It doesn't matter what way round you put it, each statement confirms the other.
^^you see I read chewk's explanation as "placebos only work if you believe that they do" which is for some people, entirely true.
It doesn’t matter what way round you put it, each statement confirms the other.
Actually the prayer is to help her concentrate her mind or to guard her mind without being distracted by fear. The prayer is also a form of reminding the invisible entity that their behaviour or what they are doing are wrong. i.e. they have broken the "rules" for messing with people.
^^you see I read chewk’s explanation as “placebos only work if you believe that they do” which is for some people, entirely true.
Actually the mixture is more science then placebos because the dimension in which the entity(s) resides have different feel to the elements (mixture) of our dimension. As for the prayers that is to help a person concentrate on their mind. i.e. something to focus on and to avoid unnecessary distraction such as fear.
Yes, in scientific term they called the placebos but what else do they have to loose considering the fact they pray at home and sprinkle the mixture (worst case scenario the house smell like vinegar and it cost pennies).
Wow Chewkw is doing a good job of pretending to be more crazy than the OP's SiL.
(worst case scenario you house smell like vinegar and it cost pennies).
Well it's cheaper than a cat I suppose.
Wow Chewkw is doing a good job of pretending to be more crazy than the OP’s SiL.
Why? 🤔
If science cannot solve the problem why not try other method(s)? Isn't that the logical way to progress or are you saying that rationality cover for all contingencies even the unexplained?
As Arthur Conan Doyle once said "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Wow Chewkw is doing a good job of pretending to be more crazy than the OP’s SiL.
what makes you so sure they’re not the same person?
what makes you so sure they’re not the same person?
😄
OH is a bit angry as already paid for, and just thinks it bonkers.
Was it expensive? I would be surprised if the cost is important and the child will be just as happy to have it afterwards
Just thinks it bonkers? So do most of us including those of faith. The wand or otherwise isn't the issue here either
Find a solution that keeps the couple getting married happy and moan on here. It's the right thing to do
seeing or reading anything that could be magical, construed to be ‘not-real’... They are super religious
It may have already been said (skim read, sorry) but this statement right here is beyond satire. Wow.
am unsure what to suggest as a potential intervention
I’d hide in their roof and whisper in to the water pipes at night. God or Devil? You decide! Use your new powers to convince them that flower wands and Potter are okay or tell them they need to wear merino wool undergarments to keep the devil at bay. The possibilities here are endless.
On a serious note it sounds like she might be ill. Is the husband the same or can he be reasoned with? Sounds shite for the kids.
it has been panic attacks, paralysis of one arm and slurring of speech that she has been taken to hospital for. At first, Drs thought it could have been a stroke, but after many many tests and scans, they cannot find anything wrong. Unfortunately, she thinks the answer to all these issues is to just…pray. Which probably in turn is making it worse.
Obviously possessed by a fun sponge demon. Get an exorcist in there sharpish. It’ll be magic wands for all by tea time tomorrow!
You're bashing Chewkw for his comments but he's bang on the money here:
Certain invisible entity(s) don’t like this mixture … not sure if it is due to the smell or the acidity etc of the mixture. I need to find out the reason sometimes …
I sprinkled some condiments around my house the other day and since then I have absolutely not been visited by any invisible entities. My anti-tiger spray is proving 100% effective too.
If science cannot solve the problem why not try other method(s)? Isn’t that the logical way to progress or are you saying that rationality cover for all contingencies even the unexplained?
If science cannot solve the problem, one cannot instead just make up some random bollocks and present it as a viable and directly comparable alternative, no.
If anyone absolutely refutes the existence of god fullstop then I’d really like to hear your reasoning because most of the arguments are also a fallacy ridden mess.
I'll have a go at this later (and I've done so on previous posts), but I need to get some food in first.
Are all Muslims mentally ill as well, or is it just Christians?
Are all Muslims mentally ill as well, or is it just Christians?
Not bothered to read the thread then, or do you think all Christians and Muslims are as described in the opening post?
If anyone absolutely refutes the existence of god fullstop then I’d really like to hear your reasoning because most of the arguments are also a fallacy ridden mess.
God can’t exist because of Eric The God-Eating Magic Penguin. Since Eric is God-Eating by definition, he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, He automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten. Unless you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist, God doesn’t exist. Even if you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist, that same proof will also be applicable to God. There are only two possibilities: either you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist or you can’t. In both cases it logically follows that God doesn’t exist.
The only thing I can see wrong with this is the suggestion that being eaten causes something to cease to exist.
Why would they not be allowed hearts or anything slightly magical
Because people have different values.
Would you give your child a model penis to play with? A toy gun etc…
Having a wee problem seeing a connection between a stick with a heart on the end, and a gun or a dildo.
Honestly, what possible reason can someone have to find a heart on a stick a problematic symbol? The heart is an almost universal symbol for love, there’s no magical or demonic aspect to it; except, perhaps, in the mind of someone who’s in the early stages of some form of mental illness.
It’s clearly irrational.
the entity
Good film that.
My prognosis is that SIL is using the extremist religious stuff as a smoke screen for what is really going on for her. Which, in all likelihood, she has no conscious idea as to what is really going on for her because it’s all part of her denial process.
It could be that something has recently come into her knowledge that is very difficult for her to resolve. Or perhaps she’s told herself repeatedly that her responsibilities as a parent are overwhelming, a delayed post natal depression except the delay, borne from denial and ignoring the issue, has exacerbated and magnified her feelings of fear, inadequacy and possibly more importantly, her growing lack of control over the care and development of her young children.
If so, suggest she does not read the current “Creating Little Ones” thread.
Fight or flight being a natural response to any threat and she’s chosen flight with extreme mental anguish and behaviour. She needs help but unless she’s prepared to be completely honest with everyone, any help will be limited.
If science cannot solve the problem, one cannot instead just make up some random bollocks and present it as a viable and directly comparable alternative, no.
Au contraire. Feels are much more important than yer ackshull science these days.
Onewheelgood - there are quite a few issues with it.
It assumes all kinds of things about the nature of God, along the lines of a monotheistic religion. Not to mention the obvious questions about the nature of the penguin. Where did it come from? What, if anything,caused it?
It's a switcheroo from God to a penguin. It would be a good argument if you wanted to whip up a hardcore monotheist. Not so good for arguing against the god of Hegel and people like that.
Good film that.
Yes, I like that too 😀
I sprinkled some condiments around my house the other day and since then I have absolutely not been visited by any invisible entities. My anti-tiger spray is proving 100% effective too.
The logic is rather the same. Put it this way you won't want to stay in a place that smells so badly so you either clean it or move on. A bit like having a slurry pit near you. The mixture might be normal to us but for the entities it might smell like slurry pit etc, so they move on. The idea is to make it so uncomfortable for them to stay that just move on themselves.
No-one has a right to force their beliefs (or lack of them) on to any other person
Wrong!
Struggling with this bit. Why would it be acceptable to force your views onto others?
Bikebob, some people do think it’s ok though.
Why would it be acceptable to force your views onto others?
Hey - I don't make the rules.
Don’t invite the bil to the stag do...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=krgUVduKFL4