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Just wondering, anyone know where the JSA might stand on this?
I am currently doing some part time work which ends in a couple of weeks, had a phonecall yesterday about another part time promotional contract for a few days work. Great, I was thinking, pretty well paid, for just a few days easy work.
Then they told me the company and the product!
I had to turn it down that instant, because of my moral beliefs, and my own personal experiences.
The company was BAT I believe... I'm the worlds most vehement anti smoker, but essentially I just had to turn down paid work because of this. Where will the JSA stand do you reckon?
SBAGOWI
I don't know but I'd be surprised if they allowed you to be that choosy, depending on how long you have been claiming.
Do it, but stain your teeth and fingers yellow, and cough loads.
There's a number of companies I wouldn't choose to work for but it would depend on how I was putting food on my plate. If I was skint, I'd work where I could.
Seriously?
How much would you charge for a blow job?
Currently employed Cougar. I'll consider contacting you when I'm THAT skint (it'll be some time after I've sold my internal organs)
I don't know the system that well; will they know? I evaded work for ages after I left the bank, and it would all have been JSA rule enfringements had I ever mentioned it.
(the only thing I got in trouble for was doing voluntary work, which I stupidly admitted to- got slapped wrists for being "unavailable for work!")
NW +1, not that I'd ever do that ohhh no...
There are other conscientious grounds to refuse employment, so there must be a precedence. What if you're Muslim and you get offered a job in a pork factory?
(it'll be some time after I've sold my internal organs)
(-:
Point I was making was, it's easy to say "I'd do [i]any [/i]job if I had to," the reality might be another matter. I guess it's all relative; the more needy you are, the less choosy you can afford to be, it's not necessarily just black and white. How far you'll be prepared to suspend your moral misgivings depends on how desperate you are for a warm meal.
What if you're Muslim and you get offered a job in a pork factory?
How's that different to any other unpleasant job (sewerage worker say) so long as it's not a pork-eating role?
(can open, worms everywhere)
Go and take a look in your local job centre. See all the malignant scrotes that drag their zombie-like forms to loiter outside the place drinking cans of Stella. They're all receiving full benefits.
How honest do you think they're all being with their accounts of their ceaseless dedication to searching for work?
I would hope that in instances like this that it would have an impact on the claimants JSA.
Not meaning to be a **** but JSA is not a charity.
OP, why should I work to pay for your moral high ground?
Fair enough if you choose not to take the work (and I'd probably feel the same), but why do you think I (as a taxpayer) should pay you instead if you make that choice?
There is another forum user who is in a similar position to mboy... their morals said they should stop claiming JSA. I respect them for this.
I signed off the other day anyway as I'm currently doing some other work. The work I was offered for said company is 3 or 4 days of promotional work, so was hardly going to make the world of difference anyway. That said, if it was shovelling shit, I'd have gladly accepted it, but there's no way in this world I could talk about a tobacco related product in anything other than a wholly negative light.
Conversely to what some people above may say, I would expect a Muslim to have to work as a Bible Salesman, or work in a Butchers for example.
OP, why should I work to pay for your moral high ground?
Fair enough if you choose not to take the work (and I'd probably feel the same), but why do you think I (as a taxpayer) should pay you instead if you make that choice?
Never ceases to amaze me how many self righteous pricks there are in the world... Contrary to what you might believe, my many years of tax paying, and National Insurance contributions, are what covers my JSA, not your tax money... YES, you are paying for the long term idle to sit at home on their arses and do nothing, but my many years of earning a good wage and paying full taxes and NI were still more than covering me for up I date JSA payments... Until I signed off the other day!
If I sign back on straight away after my current position ends in 10 days time, I will still be eating into my own NI contributions from the last several years, not your tax money!
Anyway... Anybody ACTUALLY know where I'd stand rather than just caring to speculate? I'm assuming they'd show leniency and be slightly moral. If not, I want to be there the day someoe has to tell a devout Muslim he has to work in a butchers!
What if you're Muslim and you get offered a job in a pork factory?
My dad worked at Walls meat co, for over thirty years, he never had a problem with it, as above it's eating it that's not allowed..
And anyway.. after you've worked there for longer than a fortnight you'll never eat the shit again....
Never ceases to amaze me how many self righteous pricks there are in the world...
Says the man that refuses to work for a Tobacco firm...
Oh that there is a predicament. I reckon I am the worlds biggest anti-smoker and would be hard pushed to take a job like that.
But then I'm not sure I could turn down work and stay on benefits.
Jeeze, that's a real tough one. Guess at the end of the day you could take it, do a rubbish job and topple the industry from inside?
TSY, there's a BIG difference between morals/beliefs and being self righteous.
I'm guessing you don't know that though, being the number 1 Big Hitter and all!
Jeeze, that's a real tough one. Guess at the end of the day you could take it, do a rubbish job and topple the industry from inside?
The thought did cross my mind, but because it would be promotional work, I'd be expected to report evidence of actually having promoted the product/service in order to actually get paid
As there's no way I could bring myself to do that, I very much doubt they'd pay me a single penny for turning up to slag the company off for 4 days! And it would be quite a waste of my time, effort and money to get to Birmingham (60 miles round trip) for the 4 days only to not get paid a penny for my troubles.
I'm not even close to being a big hitter. If I went with my morals and refused to work for 'the man' I might have the time to get my post count up to the required standard.
No idea where you stand on this mboy, but I admire your stance.
Never ceases to amaze me how many self righteous pricks there are in the world...Says the man that refuses to work for a Tobacco firm...
.... and thinks he should still get state benefits for being out of work as a consequence. I don't think they've ring-fenced all your contributions and put them in a little pot just in case you found yourself out of work. My understanding is that the tax / benefit system doesn't quite work that way.
I admire your stance on not working for tobacco. I don't admire your assumption that you should get state benefits for being out of work as a result of that choice. However, I'll refrain from expressing that in the form of bad language and abuse, and ask you to do the same please?
I'm not even close to being a big hitter. If I went with my morals and refused to work for 'the man' I might have the time to get my post count up to the required standard.
You are a comedy genius TSY! You never fail to make me laugh...
You do know the real meaning of the term "Big Hitter" right, and that it's not linked to post counts... Though even if it were, I'm sure the guys behind the website could easily provide post based statistics to prove one way or the other...
And you do know there's select people on this forum now that only post to bait you, I'm told it's very easy yet surprisingly rewarding... Can see how that might be fun, but I'll stick to reasoned and balanced arguments rather than just shouting loudly... Oh, and don't worry, I will use "spoiler" in any content now where I might talk about something that hasn't yet happened, thanks for reporting me to the mods for no reason! 😕
EDIT: Apology accepted, high horse dismounted.
However, I'll refrain from expressing that in the form of bad language and abuse, and ask you to do the same please?
Ok fair point, please accept my apologies. I'm too used to hearing the "benefits scroungers" arguments by the Daily Fail readers, that don't actually understand that the vast proportion of the UK's unemployed population are actually skilled workers who just can't get work! Under 1 million are long term "scroungers", almost twice that much are for the mostpart skilled and willing to work.
No they don't ring fence the money you pay in via NI, but the rule is that if you've contributed via NI you claim Contribution Based benefits (ie. money you've thrown in the pot yourself) back for a period up until your contributions are no longer valid. You then have to apply for income based benefits, which will then be allocated (or not) dependant on your eligibility to claim it.
Regardless of my views on Contribution based Vs Income based, I'd much rather be contributing to society than not. But I couldn't do a moments work for a Tobacco company, not unless they wanted someone to actively drive their hats hate price, turnover and profits down as much as I could!
take the job and do the promotional work by slacking off. or have a "fall" and take them to court crying that the employment conditions were at fault (or the big [i]fag [/i]costume you had to wear was too [i]floppy [/i]around the [i]butt [/i]and you [i]stubbed [/i]your toe).
i've done lots of jobs that i feel i morally shouldn't have done. recent ones being:
- re-fitting a betting shop in a deprived area of Nuremberg; don't have anything against betting as such but you should have seen the poor souls around that area. the laast thing they needed was to throw their money away.
- the stage and associated work for the Diva, Germany's answer to the Baftas; i don't like celebrity culture and find the whole red carpet thing embarrassing. embarrassing for society, that is.
- pharma conference in Berlin. the "guests" each recieved 500€ just for turning up, they called it "inconvenience money".
- design award ceremony in Hamburg where the winner recieved 50,000€ and came over in his private jet to collect the award. i did end up a little pissed and told both the designer and the organisers that i thought it a crock of shit that this guy comes over on his private jet, spunking the money that could have been better used elsewhere supporting new designers or helping society. i don't think i'll get called back to do that job next year.
there have been plenty more, but if i didn't take on those jobs i'd be sitting around on my arse more than i do already and i wouldn't be able to afford the few nice things that i have.
pull your socks up and swallow your pride.
mboy in birmingham
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alpin, morally I'm with you on the jobs you've done in the past, and to be honest I'd have done them too and conscientiously objected.
A Tobacco company makes my moral compass swing off the scale. We're all different and that, but I wouldn't be capable of doing a minutes work for them, I'd probably end up causing a scene!
I've done morally reprehensible things in jobs before, that I've disliked very strongly just to make sure I could eat. If it was a straight up choice between selling some fags and going hungry, well I'd choose to go hungry, but I also know that friends and family would support my morals and step in and feed me!
but there's no way in this world I could talk about a tobacco related product in anything other than a wholly negative light.
Why not tell the person who offered you the work that.
Then you don't get offered the job.
Simple.
It's not much different than you being offered a job doing Stem Cell research, you couldn't do the work effectively (I'm guessing) so you would turn down the offer/ or it would be removed, leaving you with a clear conscience.
Why not tell the person who offered you the work that.Then you don't get offered the job.
Simple.
Ah, good point
Technically, that's actually what I did.
Get over it. Next
part time [b]promotional[/b] contract
there's no way in this world I could talk about a tobacco related product in anything other than a wholly negative light.
That's the relevant bits to me. It's the conflict of interest, as you say. Not a moral high-horse, just a straight "i could not do this job to the level you require". If I were in the same position, I'd do the same thing.
although i've done quite a few jobs for tabacco companies and not worried.... phillip moris, lucky strike and marlborough. we were given several cartons (not 200 boxes, but catons full of 200 boxes) on each job. i took a few 200s and sold them to my mates (but only ones with good looking GFs in the hope that they peg it and i can reap the rewards).
thanks for reporting me to the mods for no reason!
LOL you silly sensitive flower... I've only reported one person (well an insensitive tag aimed at another member) to the mods, and I guess that wasn't you?
In seriousness though I was invited to interview at BAT but declined for, I guess, the same reason as you. I left a job because the company was purchased by Nestle, again for the same reasons. The difference I was either employed or had a job to go to.
One question... why do the benefit people have to know?
Mboy
Have a word with citizens advice bureau they're pretty good at the ins and outs of the system
Out of interest mboy, what did the job entail as I luv a fag 😛
I think you'd need to get in touch with the DWP and tell them which jobs you don't want them to consider you for and they'd be fine.
Tell to new employer your felling, I'm sure you'll be surprised by their mature attitude. I think they're aware of the negative feeling some people towards them.
Or you could work as a spy.
Good on you for taking that stance, as your work is promotional with the aim of getting people to smoke, id of thought that being involved in the premature death of potential smokers as a result of your work would be sufficient a reason not to take the work.
edlong - MemberOP, why should I work to pay for your moral high ground?
Fair enough if you choose not to take the work (and I'd probably feel the same), but why do you think I (as a taxpayer) should pay you instead if you make that choice?
You pay your tax at source to the Government. It is no longer your money and you have no say in where it goes. If you dont like it you can vote for another oxbridge graduate with a different colour rosette every five years.
Do you follow this logic with all your money? When you buy singletrack magazine, do you then tell the md/ceo/ owner of the newsagent where you'd like your money spent? Do you then tell the newsagent employees where you'd like your money from their wages spent? Do you ask the singletrack owners how you'd like to spend 'your money' from the sale of the mag?
Screw the Job Centre.England owes you a living.