[Closed] 4x4s in the snow

I've just been out in some pretty severe conditions in my Berlingo with snow tyres on the front and was once again blown away by how capable it was. No trouble at all negotiating a good 8" of virgin snow on a bit of an incline. Throw some chains in the mix and as long as you are a competent snow driver you'll get a long way.

A decent FWD car on good snow tyres can be at least as capable as a big 4WD on duff road tyres IME.

2' of snow might be a bit of a challenge if you're the first one ploughing through it though...

2ft is bit deep, you'd need to either be diggin it out or get a farmer with a snow plough to clear it. either that or some serios sized tyers that'll float over it, but you'll be stuffed once you get to a normal road (handling with be shit) and they wont be cost effective, probably cheeper taking a month off work than buying 4x propper snow tyres and wheels.

I had no trouble at all with 50cm or so of fresh snow last year, also did some pretty steep hills, like 1 in 4.

We have a nissan X-Trail with decent Grabber AT2 tyres

Loved my L200 in the snow last year never struggled once, but remember you still have to take it steady all because your got 4x4 doesn't mean it isn't going to slide.

oh yeah kuco im aware of that

all i want to try to ensure is i can get out of my house !

ive never had an issue driving in snow before even in my old car with wide alloys which was shit in snow but still never got stuck 😉

I would also mention that before I changed the tyres, I actually got stuck on an icy car park once with the original tyres.

I've just been out for a walk and the streets are lovely and peaceful. No cars, and particularly no 4x4s. Instead there are kids sledging and building snowmen, folk out for a Sunday stroll and instead of noisy engines there's just the sound of folk laughing and enjoying themselves.

Most pleasant Sunday of the year so far.

I've driven through bumper deep snow in my Shogun. A lot depends on the type of snow. If I were you and te distances werent to far, I'd park at the end of the drive and walk up to the house.

Two of the best cars in snow were a 2CV and a Mini with proper snow tyres. Both were unstoppable.

Enough drag from deep snow and you'll still end up spinning wheels, in which case you're stuck. Take all the usual dig yourself out paraphenalia.

without a doubt - now if only i could bring old bessy - an old hilux we have out here !

I have a 4x4 pick-up with road tyres (Bridgestone Dueller HT's) and it easily gets where 2wd cars etc don't in the snow. In fact my pick-up in 2wd is absolutely awful (but good fun being RWD).

Saying that though, push it in corners, brake too hard, or generally drive like a tool and it can be lost almost as easily as any other car. Driven sensibly I've found it very capable.

I was driving in a foot of powdery snow in my 4x4 pickup earlier this year. That's with 'normal' road biased tyres (80% road type things, not stupid low profile bmw type stuff). The cherokee I have is probably better as it as AT tyres. I do know how to drive off road which helps.

I'd take a shovel and some mats with me and quite happily have a go at 2' with either.

Loved my L200 in the snow last year never struggled once, but remember you still have to take it steady all because your got 4x4 doesn't mean it isn't going to slide.

Seconded. Still had a couple of hairy moments in 2wd, but knock it into 4wd, it'd go most places without touching the diff lock. Running Cooper S/T's this year too, so should help out abit more in the soft stuff. I sometimes carry abit of weight in the back of mine over winter to aid traction. Also carry a shovel, recovery gear, spare fuel and warm clothes if I'm heading off the beaten track or unploughed roads.

Something like a Shogun, with decent AT tyres is going to go further than Partner with snow tyres. Ground clearance of the Pug is around 160mm, while the Shogun is about 230mm. And 4wd makes a big difference.

I'm surprised that the people with 4x4 driving experience reckon they can drive through 2 ft + of snow. You may be able to blast through the occasional deep drift but if the snow is consistently deeper than the bumper height and also the diff height (which 2 ft + is unless you're on some sort of monster truck tyres) then you're going to grind to a halt sooner or later, however good your tyres are. You may get away with it over compacted snow if you're able to ride over it.

Depends on the snow as you said. Powder isn't a problem and a compacted layer will make a lot of difference. I'd be amazed to see 2 foot of dense snow for any distance in the UK. But a shovel and mats will get you back the way you came.

I've been out in the 5 inches of snow we have here (Beverley in East Yorkshire) in my Freelander 1 with Dueller HTs and had loads of fun today.

I've never driven in 2ft of snow though and would imagine it wouldn't take long to get stuck without snow chains and plenty of digging.

Last year I drove through the mega snow we had in the quattro. Proper winter tyres, over 200 horses - it were brilliant. I battered up the motorway at silly speeds. Much fun!

Is it really 2 foot? Or just the normal "2 foot of snow" that people talk about that turns out to mean 2 foot at the deepest drifts but 6 inches everywhere else?

With regards the amount of snow - click on his profile and it would seem apparent he lives far oop North, so 2' may not be a complete exaggeration.

Even my Impreza on summer tyres was an improvement on most 2wd on road tyres last year for traction. A decent 4x4 with good tyres on will be the best option. Just don't forget, 4x4 doesn't help in terms of stopping and turning, just in going.

Northwind you have no idea how much snow we get up here.It never really makes the main news, it hasn`t stopped snowing here since thursday.

4x4 doesn't help in terms of stopping and turning, just in going.

2ft is quite a bit for the UK!
Drove up an icy hill with no issues earlier in our 110 Defender while a defeated VW van and two cars had to find alternative routes. Might not cruise through 2ft of snow but if a Defender can't do it, nothing can.

Yeah they do. Engine braking on all 4 wheels and a low ratio box make a huge difference, as do locked diffs.

Agreed

Been working in the North East just lately with lots of snow this week. The amount of vehicles on site that have been getting stuck with just 2 wheels on the verge and 2 on the road, even pre snow was ridiculous, wheras I've been able to get all 4 wheels on and off no probs.

Yeah they do. Engine braking on all 4 wheels and a low ratio box make a huge difference, as do locked diffs.

Hm, fair point. [i][b]Other[/i][/b] than engine braking, what has 4x4 ever done for us? 😉

jordie - Member

"Northwind you have no idea how much snow we get up here.It never really makes the main news, it hasn`t stopped snowing here since thursday."

I've got a pretty good idea thanks. But most people massively exaggerate snow depth, so it's worth considering that. I would bet you 10 scottish pence that your man's 2 feet turns out to be less.

Even though our lowly Tucson is an SUV type it's a great little thing in snow. Last year and so far this year it's managed to get up and around most with the 4WD lock on.

One thing though, can't engine brake with 4WD on, the back wheels push uneavenly, guess it must be something to do with the traction control?

I've been out on my Pugsley most of today. The deepest snow I found was hip deep in a drift on a dirt track, but it was loose and easy to get through. (I'm even norther)

Mostly about 3-6" on fire roads, and a bit deeper on single track.

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Trail Rat, as you know i'm not far from you and 2ft sounds a bit OTT.

FWIW i used to have a Disco and never had any problems (around your neck of the woods too). I now have a BMW and it's not moved for a few days now! 😉

fwiw - spent the weekend in the lower reaches of highland perthshire. moved car out of dip where the house, but still 1/4 mile from nearest (unsnowploughed) road. 1' - 2' snow. then onto compacted snow for about 5 miles to snowploughed road. no problem apart from short uphill pull getting started
car is honda cr-v, so far from "proper" 4x4.
wouldn't like to deal with deeper snow or longer distance to proper road though

your all miles from me - im in malabo WA

the village near mines has 4 or 5 inches seemingly

landlord text me and said we have 2 foot at least and there car wont move at all even on the flat !

for all i know it could be 2 inches ... although i got photos on thursday showing at least 6 inches of snow on our patio table .... and there has been considerably more since ....

the missus has bailed out of our house because of the snow it seems that as you go inland from laurencekirk it goes kinda crazy ! bearing in mind im quite a bit higher up that stonehaven!

have never drivven a 4 x 4 in snow only deep mud and water - and although snow is sometimes refered to as white mud - it acts entirely different from my limited experiance in cars .....

Im in the highlands and the track between my house and the road is 1-1.5 feet deep, with the odd drift going to 2 ft or slightly more.
The trick for me was bung chains on and use the car to plough it to a manageable depth before it consolidates.

I took my old terrano up Rivington Pike in the days before they started getting arsy about vehicles going up, the snow wasn't too bad, lower down had melted and re-frozen overnight so the problems were there, higher up it was a bit more packed and a bit more grip to be had. Probably not even 3 inches on the ground by the time I got there. Was using some Kumho ATs at the time.
[IMG] [/IMG]

The trouble with real snow is that it gathers under the vehicles and ends up lifting the front end.

If you do have a lot of snow, get one of these...
[img] [/img]

Did a good deed in mine yesterday, whilst out for a test ride after a few weeks broken, I came accross a van trying to go up a fair hill in about a foots worth of snow ,i advised him to turn but he had to deliver a wedding cake, quite a big one too, we put it in the passenger seat and delivered it in the trusty vitara, I hope the rest of the wedding was ok, there was no room for his missus who wasn't happy at all at seeing her work dissapear in a rusty old motor 😀

A pink landy?
doesn't the snow melt from the heat of your 😳

Doesn't look pink to me. Must be your monitor.

This was this morning. Consistently over a foot deep. Diff locktastic.

[img] [/img]

Keep trying to find enough to give my Landcruiser a test in the snow, but haven't managed it yet.
My Parents however have an L200 with standard tyres on it & it's bloody useless! So they end up running around in an old SWB Landrover instead-much more capable.

My wife's got a Fiat Panda 4x4 with 'proper' mud & snow tyres(don't laugh!) - it's absolutely ace in the snow or on muddy fields & tracks. Always surprises me what it'll get up & down (though I managed an unintentional (cough) 180 power-spin in it yesterday). One of her friends has also got a Panda 4x4 and last year she had to rescue her husband in his Defender! - can you imagine his shame 🙂 A 1.2L Panda trying to tow 2 ton of loaded Landy out was quite funny tho!

His excuse was that the Panda is so light that it floats across places where his Landy sinks.....yyeees...OK 😉

Surf-Mat - Member

The trouble with real snow is that it gathers under the vehicles and ends up lifting the front end.

If you do have a lot of snow, get one of these...

your problem there is that even a landy isn't heavy enough to provide anything like enough traction to push much snow. We used to use a Unimog with 2 tonnes of stone/salt in the back and chains and still run out of traction in 2ft+ snow.

What gets me is the housewives in Volvo XC/BMW X3/5/ Range Rovers who think they can charge around like normal then when they hit some ice things go really wrong. Grrr.

You mean the ones who say "We need a 4x4 because they don't grit the lanes round here in the winter"

So that's £50 000 for a Range Rover or £100 for a set of chains for the car. Yeah, OK. 🙄

So that's £50 000 for a Range Rover or £100 for a set of chains for the car. Yeah, OK

You're not married I take it? 😉

your problem there is that even a landy isn't heavy enough to provide anything like enough traction to push much snow. We used to use a Unimog with 2 tonnes of stone/salt in the back and chains and still run out of traction in 2ft+ snow.

A Unimog might be a wee bit hard to park in Sainsburys!

When did you use one? They look like a lot of fun!

What gets me is the housewives in Volvo XC/BMW X3/5/ Range Rovers who think they can charge around like normal then when they hit some ice things go really wrong. Grrr.

Yup, no matter what vehicle and driver aids you've got on a non-studded tyred vehicle, there's no getting around the laws of physics - despite all the BS the manufacturers come out with. IME, once you're sliding on polished ice, a lot of the end result comes down to luck.

(fwiw, my opinion is based on 30 years driving of all sorts of stuff)

i would suggest its mainly down to tyres.

fat and flat on modern 4x4s, and therefore pap as they compact the snow and you have NOOO grip

skinny steelies on any 2000 ish or older 2wd will be better, and cut through it.
and not as much of a fat lump to loose control of.

i would hypothise, that if you got a 4x4 that was about 1.5T, not the usual 2.5-3, and then put skinny/mud/not-motorway-specific tyres on it, that would be your best bet.

even skinny tyres on a 3T soft roader would be ok i reckon.
not something moronic like this: [img] [/img]

You're not married I take it?

However, as others have mentioned, four wheel drive may help get you moving, but when it comes to stopping, you've still only got four wheel brakes, the same as any other car.

As has been said. Low ratio, difflocks, very soft tyres and a nice big diesel and you can creep down hell of a hill. I would argue that the another big virtue of my Landy is thefact that I can stuff it into a bank/hedge if all alse fails and it comes out as tidy as it went in.

i would hypothise, that if you got a 4x4 that was about 1.5T, not the usual 2.5-3, and then put skinny/mud/not-motorway-specific tyres on it, that would be your best bet.

Indeed, with good all-season tyres my 1300kg 4WD is great fun and very controllable, except for poor ground clearance. And it's stopping is faster but less controlled without the ABS, more controlled but about 2 car lengths longer with the ABS. With proper studded tyres I reckon it'd be even more amazing. I think one of my favourite cars in the snow was my pug 205 with 145 all-season tyres - I'd regularly walk past 4x4s even with all terrain tyres (presuming the driver must be useless) but almost always ripped the front bumper off in more than 6" drifts 🙂

However, as others have mentioned, four wheel drive may help get you moving, but when it comes to stopping, you've still only got four wheel brakes, the same as any other car.

You also usually have more suitable tyres. Which makes a huge difference.

However, as others have mentioned, four wheel drive may help get you moving, but when it comes to stopping, you've still only got four wheel brakes, the same as any other car.

Yea, last winter I was getting a bit complacent and very nearly came to grief with the two other 4x4 in front of me. I'd got Bridgstone snow tyres on, ABs, EBD and ESP - but once you're sliding down a 1 in 10 black ice covered hill, you're stuffed! Once your ABS thinks the vehicle is stationary (at, say 2 or 3mph), it stops working and you very slowly slide into things. (I'd wondered why there were 2 other 4wds parked in the ditch 😕 )

surf matt - in my yoof i lived in the peak district. My old man had access to such toys as a Unimog with blade and snow blower, tracked vehicles, 8 wheeled vehicles and lots of landrovers and quad bikes.

They still have the Unimog i think but have sold the snow blower, they are crap in wet UK snow unless you have mega horsepower available to the front PTO.

They've given up trying to clear snow up to the house, just compacts to ice so they leave cars at the bottom and use a landy with full chains, even with that they were reliant on foot for over a week last winter and the cars didn't make it up for the best part of 5 weeks

I like your style, Matt. 😀
NATO Green paint and dents on every panel. The perfect Winter car.

What you really need if you have to get somewhere. Be it snow, across a lake of through the worst mud/sand is a BV206.

Its not 4x4 but it might be tall enough to get through the snow:
http://www.vitalbmx.com/videos/member/michael-mooneys-6ft-tall-mtb,6504/tallbikefreak,42682

but once you're sliding down a 1 in 10 black ice covered hill, you're stuffed!

There is a method to (hopefully) regain control but it's totally un-intuitive. When a vehicle starts to slide on ice, snow, whatever, the usual human reaction is to brake (and if it's a manual vehicle, drop the clutch) which as all us expert MTBers know is the worst thing to do 😯 What you need to do is blip the throttle to get the wheels rotating again to regain control. Easier said than done when you're starting to career down a hill...

Well I needed difflocks just then! Coming out of an iced up field with a ramp onto the road (on which a Fiesta in front of me crashed into the hadge!) and it wasn't having any of it. Difflock on and still sliding but made it okay. For a moment I thought I was stuck!

mattsccm - Member
As has been said. Low ratio, difflocks, very soft tyres and a nice big diesel and you can creep down hell of a hill

Agree, but you still need some traction between tyres & surface to achieve this. Near zero/zero traction surface and control can be lost, and as psling says the remedy just goes against the grain - using the throttle in that situation just does not make sense in the brain, but it works if you catch it early enough.

Locked centre and rear diffs, plus snow setting and max height on the suspension worked for the Disco in the Alps. 2 feet of snow up a hill was just about OK, but you just can't see what you're driving into (ditches and the like) so I really wasn't all that keen.

I used high ratio difflok just now - Low would have spun the wheels even more. Fully sideways as I finally made it!

blip the throttle to get the wheels rotating again to regain control

Indeed, done it and its somewhat terrifying, especially when you can feel the back end sliding and you're fighting natural reactions, with your brain screaming noooooo at you as you press the throttle 😯

As has been said above, its ALL about the tyres - we used to get the FC Montego vans nearly anywhere we wanted all year round due to sump pans and AT tyres.

Running Grabber AT2's here - just need some ****ing snow... robbed.

Any advice from the experts on here about descending a steep snowy track in an automatic 4x4?

My wife just had a fun experience in her new (to her) X Trail. she had it in 4x4 lock and also selected 1 in the auto box to limit her gear range but still felt the car running away down the slope, braking then just caused the car to skid - not a fun experience.The snow had been compacted down and she got up the track fine, but descending was not fun, especially with 3 kids in the car.

I'm sure more appropriate tyres would make a difference and we're looking into those, but are there any techniques which would help?

Cheers

Mango - just really, really slow and very very smooth - no dabbing of brakes, etc. That's all you can do really. Lower tyre pressure will help it grip a bit more.

1st gear in an auto will be too high to be of much use even if selected manually i reckon

My brother just finished pulling a Disco and a Defender out of the warehouse unit he uses, in his Vauxhall Combi It's possible there's a smugger man in scotland but I'd be surprised.

Reverse is usually lower than 1st if you havn't got a low box, but you've got to be brave!

Going down, the car can only go as slow as the grip allows, whether you are trying to slow it with the engine or brakes (assuming either type braking is being applied to all 4 wheels evenly).
Using engine braking might help a bit as it's likely to be smoother.
The basic physics says that reversing won't make much difference either (although since the engine is likely to be in the front the weight distribution on a hill might make a bit of a difference I suppose, but unlikely to be much).

The solution is better tyres or some shoveling + brushing 🙂

OK, so to pull it back to the usual STW question - what tyres? I have a Disco3 with OEM Goodyear which, to be fair, did well in 12" of snow last year. They did shuffle a little on the ice, but overall not too bad. Having had a blast around today again fine, but i am thinking about alternatives. Grabber AT2 or Yoko AT-S are in play at the moment, but so is a set of Winter Contacts? What's your view; winter tyres or a reasonable off-road tyre that I can also use, well, off-road?

my old man swears by Avon Ranger Ice or plain old Ranger AT

There is a method to (hopefully) regain control but it's totally un-intuitive. When a vehicle starts to slide on ice, snow, whatever, the usual human reaction is to brake (and if it's a manual vehicle, drop the clutch) which as all us expert MTBers know is the worst thing to do What you need to do is blip the throttle to get the wheels rotating again to regain control. Easier said than done when you're starting to career down a hill...

Indeed. letting the wheels roll will always allow more control than having them locked (hence the reason for abs). It's a technique I have to employ occasionally going down my steep little back street when it's snowy - it's narrow and has corners, so if I brake I just go straight into the wall. As you say though, easier to do when the consequences aren't fiery death (would just be a dented car in my case since the speed is low).

or some shoveling + brushing

Isn't that technically known as Curling?

Probably best not to attempt it with a car...on a public highway.

But you NEVER brake going down a slippery surface. or touch the clutch for that matter.
My LR, which has an Isuzu 2.8 diesel in it which has a very low drive ratio moves so slowly in 1st , with no throttle that the speedo won't move. If you tackle down hills likethis with some planning.ie go in slow, what you can cope with is amazing. My bottle goes before the grip on icy roads. Drop the tyre pressure as well to say 10psi and its great fun.

Defender has an anti stall feature in 1st so you can crawl at super slow speeds without having to touch the throttle. Handy in snow.

i used to have 1.9 diesel 205 with skinny tyres, it was great in the snow.

When i was taught to do steep decents in landrovers, they always made sure your feet were off all the pedals, and you let the engine do the work, and apart from occassionally blipping the the throttle you were fine.

Got to drive from Edinburgh to Wales tomorrow - in an Avensis estate - not looking fwd to it. Spent the day watching people slithering around either driving way too slow and dithering or way too fast and over revving.

But you NEVER brake going down a slippery surface.

That's fine if there isnt a T junction at the bottom. This morning I was creeping down the hill in 1st and came to about 15ft from the queuing traffic crossing the T at the bottom. HAD to go for the brakes as there was no room left and I was going too fast to steer. ABS went mental but the steering was still just about usable, all locked but it was 50 % polished ice so I just had to rely on the guy at the bottom predicting it and waiting for me to slide into the space in front of him like a slow-motion rally driver 🙂

...also selected 1 in the auto box to limit her gear range but still felt the car running away down the slope... are there any techniques which would help?

Does the X Trail have a transfer box? If so it would help to select 'low box' and lock into 1st gear. Having said that, the brain advises you're losing conrol well before you actually do lose control so it is probably just a case of practice and confidence! Technique? We've been known to run autos down slippery slopes forwards with Reverse gear selected; allows the wheels to contra-rotate with a surprising amount of control but I certainly would not recommend doing this!! [especially with all the electronic wizardry on modern vehicles] 😕

? We've been known to run autos down slippery slopes forwards with Reverse gear selected; allows the wheels to contra-rotate with a surprising amount of control but I certainly would not recommend doing this!! [especially with all the electronic wizardry on modern vehicles]