[Closed] 4-week school trip to Ecuador

Have the school sent kids on similar trips in the past? Maybe try and contact parents from those?

Speaking as a dad of two Yr 5 girls knowing what is coming around the corner and speaking as one of the kids who was never able to go on school ski trips, adventure holidays etc. I honestly think they should stop all of these absurdly expensive trips abroad - all it does is sort out the rich kids from the ones from normal backgrounds.

No direct experience on that type of trip,but this year we've been fundraising over £4k for trips my two are making, happy to offer ideas if you end up needing them - first one being any money they get for Christmas and birthdays goes into the "trip" lot, plus what you would have spent on the family holiday you can no longer afford!

4 grand?! for a school trip? Flippin 'ell. Spoilt little gets.
She can do the [url= https://www.oysterdiving.com/padi-open-water/ ]PADI[/url] course over here a little bit cheaper.

We had this two years ago with a "once in lifetime trip" to Malawi, I came out of the presentation and wanted to go ffs! It was a slick, quick, very well presented affair which hadnt just been cobbled together, imagine time share quality.
It left a LOT of parents feeling inadequate and some even left during the presentation when costs started to be mentioned. Several of our daughters friends went and at first she was hugely disappointed that we said it wasn't happening, she'd never really been told no before but it was such a huge amount of money for a holiday for one member out of a family of four.
Many signed up and paid deposits, some kids did really well with the fund raising (only so much bag packing at Morrison's can be done) and some ended with grandma paying 3k towards it, one girl even started selling her clothes to pay, others just dropped out.
The kids all survived, one has unfortunately come back with an m e type condition where she's permanently fatigued, the others well no one really said it was life changing.
Left me feeling a bit bad as a dad but she went on to have a great summer last year with her other friends doing loads of other stuff including her first solo festival and the ncs scheme.

4 week trip for a 10 year old? Bonkers. Don't forget the £4k will not include spends.
Plenty of opportunity when they're a little older.

My eldest (19) is currently doing 10 weeks in Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia and Oz with 3 friends on an organised (STA) trip - costs more this way but I think it's much safer and is still much less than £1k/week and that includes flights, accommodation, trips, food and all spends.
She worked and saved just over half the total cost.
I also doubt a 10 year old would really appreciate the location/opportunity as much as they might when they're older.

Purely my opinion..... YMV.

£4 k!

Flight to Oz, £1k, padi course in cairns £1k

Leaving £2k to travel about and do stuff

Stick it in an account until she is 18?

4 week trip for a 10 year old? Bonkers.

Reread - 4 week trip for a year 10 going next year - so in year 11 - i.e. at 16 years old.

Still very long but not as bonkers.

I'd imagine the vfm on what is a chaperoned trip with all the costs that entails is not too bad but that is still too much money to justify. No parent should expected to find that much money and no child should expect that to be spent on them. The impact on what the remainder of the family could do would be too great. If it's the sort of thing she'd want to do in the future help her too look at doing it in a gap year or summer holiday between A levels and uni with friends with her raising the bulk of it through Saturday jobs etc. Arguably less safe but also more life affirming than a cosseted trip at 16.

Also - I think for economic and environmental reasons we should be educating our youth about what can be done closer to home. The UK and Europe are brilliant and still mostly unexplored by your average 16 year old. You don't need to travel half way around the world to get your wow moment as a 16 year old (or an adult come to that).

I honestly think that's madness. Our school does this sort of stuff (and its a fee paying school) and i was in a meeting where there was a general concensus that this stuff was getting out of hand costwise.

They came into Mrs Dubs school - she wasn't impressed.

Fundraising is onerous when also studying for exams / whatever other extra curricular she does. Once you've started paying, there are cutoff points where you can't get your money back.

I would be more inclined to spend the money on travelling later.

. I honestly think they should stop all of these absurdly expensive trips abroad – all it does is sort out the rich kids from the ones from normal backgrounds.

I agree 100%

We did exactly as others have said above, we promised the money for future travel done through a "GCSE results incentive" unfortunately this was done after a few beers and our daughter smashed her gcses which cost me 500 quid, I upped the ante for a levels with a single one off payment for 3 a's.....
Her mock results have left me uneasy!

The opportunity sounds amazing IMO, but from what lots of others have posted I too would say “nah” wait till you are 18 love.

And I wouldn’t put any money into an organisation that says “nope, can’t have your money back”

Banks, quite helpful in situations like these.

Thanks for all the comments and advice so far

Just to confirm, she would be in Year 11 / 16yrs old next year if she went on the trip

What I also have to consider is that I have two other kids (twins) who are a year younger so if we say yes to one we have to say yes to all of them. And that's a lot of money before you even start to think about Uni fees, driving lessons, car insurance etc etc which is all just around the corner... Kids eh, who'd have 'em?!

I did a part funded week(some commonwealth fund) to Zambia a few years ago and it's was really tough on the fundraising front. By the time the bag packing, bake sales, car washing etc had been done it'd been easier stumping up the cash. Some groups, rotary etc will have funds for these types of thing but to be fair it's quite a toughy.

I looked at running this type of trip (basically a really nice holiday) and there were weekends away training for the kids, medical training for adults. So not just a pay up, pack up and go. Don't underestimate the staff commitment, they'll have earned a pint by the time they get back. (And will probably never volunteer again)

I know someone who went on one of these trips. Guatemala I think this was. Yes, the girl learned to scuba dive, and went to places most of us will never see. But it cost an arm and a leg over the advertised price. All the clothing and gear requirements were sent out after the booking!!! Then there's the problems of being stuck half way round the world with a bunch of folk you might not want to spend 4 weeks cooped up with. Emotional 16 year old girls will argue!!! And all those hunky macho instructors with all those muscles and good looks.....
Lots of long and expensive mobile phone calls home and worry on parent's part. She said she enjoyed it, but everyone gets the impression that she's just saying that for form's sake.

Really looks like a first world set up; take the kids somewhere exotic, get parents to pay, and someone will make a lot of money out of it.

You can get a diving certificate for a lot less than this will cost. Strikes me as being similar to the trips to climb Kilimanjaro for free as long as you raise £5,000 "for charity". But perfect parents will always send spolit kids on these things

You can get a diving certificate for a lot less than this will cost.

You can become a certified diving instructor for about the same money

kid in our village went to Japan with the scouts a while back. He was bloody lucky to be the only one, as a lot of his funding was from slightly crap "events" that he set up - I mean, he worked hard at it but ultimately it was just local families overpaying for stuff

So will the trip be during year 11, or over the yr 10-11 summer?

I've just had one go through yr 11 and GCSEs and it was a hell of a lot of work to get good results with the new format / syllabus. I really wouldn't want 4 weeks of distraction mixed in with that (and school shouldn't be encouraging it).

Youngest is now in a similar situation with a USA ski trip planned for March of yr 11 (so right before GCSEs). We said no to that - partly due to timing and partly due to cost. A more modest 1 week European ski trip could have been done a year earlier with less disruption and a cost that opened it up to a wider range of kids.

Won’t be happening with us. The Boy starts High School this year and The Girl two years after. There’s no way we can afford to send them both away for that sort of money. We will break it to them many years before though.

we should also ban any cars/houses/power kites that are too expensive to afford for people earning the national average wage. Why should other people have nice things just because they have more money to spend?

I missed out on a lot of foreign school trips because my mum and dad couldn't afford it so if you can't afford it then don't be scared or ashamed to say no...its a hell of a lot of money....and 4 weeks is a bit long to be out and away from home (maybe that's just me). They have the rest of their lives to accumulate life experiences so no rush to take advantage of this opportunity.

Thanks for all the comments and advice so far

Just to confirm, she would be in Year 11 / 16yrs old next year if she went on the trip

What I also have to consider is that I have two other kids (twins) who are a year younger so if we say yes to one we have to say yes to all of them. And that’s a lot of money before you even start to think about Uni fees, driving lessons, car insurance etc etc which is all just around the corner… Kids eh, who’d have ’em?!

I'd think hard about if you really want to go to the presentation this evening. I very much doubt you'll see anything that will be reason enough for her not to go. By going you are effectively saying to your daughter that it is something you would like her to go on. If at a later date you say the money can't be justified you'll look an utter git in her eyes. You should only go if the money is already committed and are happy to spend it if you like what you see.

Youngest is now in a similar situation with a USA ski trip planned for March of yr 11 (so right before GCSEs). We said no to that – partly due to timing and partly due to cost. A more modest 1 week European ski trip could have been done a year earlier with less disruption and a cost that opened it up to a wider range of kids.

Schools are keen on North American ski trips because of the tougher controls on booze. It takes a huge chunk of the hassle out of running a trip. I know people who will volunteer to use a week of holiday to take a ski trip away but only if it's to North America. Most schools have been burnt at some point in the past.

Oft, 4k for a school trip.

When I was in 1st year of high school 1998, I came home with the letter to send me on the school ski trip. Around 500quid for a week in italy.

Being a family who ski, with myself starting at aged 3. My old man had the hindsight to talk me out of it. I would have been bored stuck in ski school with my mates who were learning and I'd be wanting to blast down blacks and ski out of bounds.

His alternative was a much more promising affair. A week skiing in chamonix where we would hire a guide and ski the Valley Blanche. Still ranks in my top 3 days ever. Including my wedding day.

This was the start of a lot of big adventures as a family. Road trips, heli skiing, diving holidays.

Now aged 33 and my old man in his 60s we still adventure together.

I'd have a think about the adventures and memories 4k could bring you as a family.

Just my opinion. Other wise 4k gets shot of her for a month.

OP - Camps International is not a 'partner', they're a profit making company with an obscure system of companies registered at companies House, seems like dormant company and only operated since 2017 yet history (unpublished) back to 2009. I'd ask some steep questions about them being partners with the school...

Regarding all these big camps and trips, I'm a fan and think they have their place.

That said, so many are run by commercial companies out to make a good chunk of the cost as profit. Better partners include BSES, Project Malawi and partnerships with NGO's in developing countries.

Safety standards are variable, to day the least.

I object to the cost - many seem to decide wonderful places to go, rather than pragmatic places that can be just as adventurous.

I object that due to cost they are highly selective, and often end up with Tarauin's parents asking me to sponsor or donate for him to go, when mine can't afford to go.

I would rather the schools looked at a trip to somewhere more affordable and adventurous - they do exist.

Jolly good!

too expensive to afford for people earning the national average wage. Why should other people have nice things just because they have more money to spend?

4k to send one kid on holiday is hardly national average money.
We don't spend 4k on holidays for all of us in a year let alone one of us.like I said in my first post, the presentation we were at made you feel like your kid needed to be there.
I spoke to the headmaster several times in the weeks after the initial presentation and he was uneasy about the whole thing.

Emotional 16 year old girls will argue!!! And all those hunky macho instructors with all those muscles and good looks…..

You make it sound like the girls will be fighting over the hunks 🤣🧟‍♂️🕺

I did a World Challenge trip at the age of 18, which is probably a similar idea. At the time 4 weeks in Costa Rica sounded super exotic and a brilliant trip to aim for after finishing A-levels. It sold very strongly on working as a team to fund raise together... it was something like £2.5k.
In reality I quickly worked out that I made more money per hour in a Saturday job than I did in a group working with eejits to squeeze money from friends and family.
The trip was a great experience, and was quite a safe way to learn how to travel - with an outdoor leader and a teacher from the college. We had input into the itinerary, but it was all professionally arranged so we didn't have to make any reservations etc. I don't think we even had to read a bus timetable.
The main learning experience for me was that travel really isn't difficult, and that a target and a little planning can go a long way. I was grateful for that lesson, but I could have got a lot more for £2.5k.
If I was advising my teenage self I'd ask why specifically that trip (which would mostly boil down to friends are doing it). I'd then give 'em a guide book and tell 'em I'd pay for the flights if they could work out the rest.

What I also have to consider is that I have two other kids (twins) who are a year younger so if we say yes to one we have to say yes to all of them

Same here.... very worrying.

I went on a school skiing trip when I was about 9. Broken my leg on the second day and spent the rest of the week either in hospital or in the hotel reception with the kid who broke his leg on the first day!

I didn't get to go on any trips after that.

No from me, too expensive, too young, too long.

Spend the money on a hol or save for her to go backpacking later.

that’s a lot of money before you even start to think about Uni fees, driving lessons, car insurance etc etc

There is that too - we have started a savings account (£100 a month for each of them) for the Uni fees (or to help support our twins in whatever route they decide to take) so they should have a decent leg up when they get to 18 but we'd need to be finding another £100 a month from now (to save for the next six years) in order to have that sort of money to pay for a school trip in yr 11.

As I child I did get upset at never being one of the kids that got to hand the form back in but as an adult I now fully understand my parents did what they could for us all. I just wasn't lucky enough to have rich parents or grand-parents.

I went kayaking in Ecuador for 6 weeks in 2005 as part of a wider trip through South and Central America,its a great place and I'd love to go back. Quito was a bit dodgy (as with most developing countries capitals) but the rest of the country felt safe, back then at least.
Lovely people, incredibly varied landscapes, really interesting. I would highly recommend visiting.
It was very cheap back then, $10 a night for decent accommodation, $5 for steak and chips in a nice restaurant. Most expensive meal I ate was guinea pig.

It would undoubtedly be a great trip and she'd get a lot out of it. A friends daughter went to Belize at the same age on a similar trip, enjoyed the experience but got seriously fed up of the company after 4 weeks of close quarters accommodation and activities.

Wait for a gap year and she could go round the world for that sort of cash.
I learned to dive in Beleize whilst travelling for not much money. We tagged onto a trip like this (after finishing up kayaking) https://www.gadventures.co.uk/trips/best-of-central-america/CRBA/
could do that with a flight for £2k if you wanted something a bit more organised.

Why should other people have nice things just because they have more money to spend?

Wasn't Thatcher's Britain great.

Whatever happened to the day trip to France?
My fear would be homesickness.

Why should other people have nice things just because they have more money to spend?

Err because they are school kids and the school should be encouraging activities the majority (if not all) can afford to do. If the rich kids' parents have money to burn, have a nice holiday outside of the school environment - there are plenty of organisations that would be happy to take their money.

I'm a non parent and I think that Matt and I come from the same place thinking wise. The organisations he mentions have a great track record and the concept is probably tested and supported to a greater degree...

Something not mentioned so far is Outward Bound, the original adventure educator set up in the 1940's by Kurt Hahn. OB was and still is a fantastic set of memories and set my curiosity going for later life adventures... I did teh course there at 16yrs old. The "Standard" course is great and although it may not have the cachet of Ecuador.. it will give some incredible lifelong learning with a very well established background of safety and safeguarding....

https://www.outwardbound.org.uk
https://www.outwardbound.net

Even here in deepest Surrey I’ve not heard of a 4K school trip for a state school.

MrsG’s school does a low cost trip every year to Tanzania where the pupils build schools and teach the local kids. They also raise more to give to the local Tanazian charities / NGO. Seems like a much better option.

Never did any foreign school trips when I was at school (but making up for the foreign travel now!)

I object to the cost – many seem to decide wonderful places to go, rather than pragmatic places that can be just as adventurous.

Yeah I agree - our girls went on a residential to a local Outdoor Education Centre last autumn and loved it - they did all the usual stuff (kayaking, climbing, caving etc) and they still talk about it now and want to do more things like it.

I have been on two trips as a member of staff both of which were a two week duration (India & Morocco). They involved.... acclimatisation to the country, voluntary work, expedition such as trekking the tea plantations or summitting Toubkal, R&R. A 4 week stint would be pretty tough, the kids i've worked with have just about had enough at the end of the 2 weeks.
Students fund raise in various ways, bag packs, sponsored walks, washing cars at school, sweet stalls, race nights, curry nights etc. If some students are struggling we will help them out in school where we can. Due to the demographics of the school we find some parents just pay for the trip whilst others fund raise the entire amount. My observation would be that the students that fund raise get more from it.
We use a company called outlook, very good and very professional. They have an ops room in the UK that is manned 24/7, they also have people in country that they can call on if they encounter any problems. We had a schedule and were required to check in on certain days. Other safety measures included a very comprehensive first aid certificate and a direct contact number for a doctor. As well as myself and another staff member from the school the expedition was lead by a member of staff from outlook, usually somebody that is ML qualified.
Most of your questions will be answered at the presentation evening but as suggested try and find first hand information such as blogs etc.

What exactly is ethical and sustainable about long haul flights? Flying kids round the world sends the wrong message IMO

As several have said, it is perfectly possible to have life affirming and life changing experiences without even leaving the UK or mainland europe, and without costing serious wonga.

Already prepping my 11 year old that she won't be doing this.

Gotta put this here regardless

What exactly is ethical and sustainable about long haul flights?

+1

Agreed it's just one of those bullshit words bandied about by marketing execs(grunts) to sound all zeitgeist.

They might as well call it a traditional farmhouse eco holiday or something

Bastards

My dad did a few World challenge expeditions with his school but I think they came to an end because they realised the voluntary work aspect was a waste of resources and was not actually helping the folk it was supposed too. They could see evidence of previous work that had never been used and felt they were doing stuff for the sake of it. Designed to make people feel good.

4 grand might be the correct amount for what is being offered and you do need that level of chaperoning at that age, but in a few years she will be able to go back-packing without a chaperone and 4 grand would last you for 4 months or longer.
And if she is really interested in scuba diving then join the local BSAC club

I went on 3 week courses/trips to Germany when I was that age, we would go to class during the weekdays from 9-3ish. People from all over the world that didn´t know each other would attend. Since I hadn´t travelled internationally until then it was a great life experience. A fraction of it was funded by me spending the rest of the summer(summer holidays in spain are long) working full time in a hotel.

Also, the price seems right.

I would boycott it and start a group protesting against it.

in a few years she will be able to go back-packing without a chaperone and 4 grand would last you for 4 months or longer.

I wish you could tell my daughter that! We're on about £7.5k all in for 10 weeks 🙁
That said it is getting her to Thailand and Australia in a mostly guided group - so more expensive than it could have been but I'm a believer in 'safety in numbers'!

I’m happy for my kids to go on as many school trips as they can.

I’ve done in about two grand this year to send one to Paris for a week and one to Sorrento for a week.

I was always the povvy kid at school that never had the opportunity to go anywhere. I was an adult before I ever left the UK  and I want my kids to experience much more of the world than I was able to.

I’d much rather spend a grand on a trip for them than on something for myself.

I've been involved with a couple of similar school trips and have grave reservations about the ethics of them from the standpoint of both communities here and communities in the countries visited.

It is very divisive within the school community. Wealthy parents will just pay for it but pupils from less wealthy families are told that they can fund raise for it. This is problematic for a few reasons. Firstly, I think it's wrong go around asking for donations for what amounts to a fancy holiday so we asked pupils to make sure they were providing a product or service. This can be really hard work, have quite small returns and become a bone of contention within the community. Secondly that money has to be floating around in the local community / friend / family network in the first place. If it isn't no amount of fundraising is going to work.

The impact on the communities abroad is also pretty variable. We went with a charity who work primarily in Peru and Tanzania. They had pretty robust programs and strong ethical standards but it was clear after going on the second trip (Tanzania) that the impact there was massively greater and the projects much more meaningful than those in Peru.

Also worrying is that up to a couple of years ago at least some of these trips counted towards university entrance points so wealthier parents could basically buy a greater likelihood of entry through these trips.

Don't get me wrong, both the trips I went on had lots of positive impacts but there were negative ones too and I'm left with doubts about how lasting some of the positive ones will be.

I got a scholarship to a well respected independant school but as we were a very blue collar family i could never go on any trips with school. It just wasnt possible and i respected my parents enough not to ask. I did however hate being excluded in a school of super wealthy kids. In the 6th form, i had a sat and holiday job and paid for my mountaineering trips that way.

Fast forward many years and my twims are at state school and there is a school trip to Uganda. The cost was £4k each and at the meeting, some slick salesman couldnt tell me who was going to keep my children safe, when a folklaw remedy for AIDS in Africa is the rape of a white woman.

The children decided they didnt want to go before i said they werent going. The trip went ahead and was cut short by 2 days due to machete based violence in the next village. They even had an armed guard (whose commitment to protect my children over himself i was uneasy with).

Short answer, are you happy to abdicate all resposibility for your kids to a geography teacher?
I also think the trips are devisive and exist for the teachers. There is a clique of 'going' vs the kids who arent and cant attend. I realise the world isnt a socialist paradise but its nasty and elitist when some parents can afford and others cant. There is only so much school fundraising can do.
Beener

£4k is a whole heap of money but if she really wants it, you can afford it, the safety aspect checks out and she is willing to earn money to pay for say half of it then have the discussion about the ethics of it all. If you can't afford it or don't agree with it then tell her & tell her why.
As a kid I never went on any of the away trips & wouldn't even bother giving my parents the details of them, but there is no way i begrudge the other kids that went away skiing etc

Nothing really to add here but we have a 14 year old son and his school trips are now all over as his exams kick in. I think we got away lightly by the looks of it: trips to London to see lion king and Harry potter world, Paris eurodisney (palace of Versailles was really boring) and last year went to Berlin, Krakow, auschwitz. All state school

All I did at high school was an outward bound trip in Shropshire

Short answer, are you happy to abdicate all resposibility for your kids to a geography teacher?

and exist for the teachers.

Much of your post was very sensible but this bit was utter bollox. Flip you first comment around - why would a geography teacher want responsibility for your child in a far flung place? Scrap that, why would that Geography teacher want responsibility for 20 kids in a far flung place? Do you ever find you own child tedious? I bet you do - and they are your own flesh and blood. Kids spend much of their time being immature arses - its what they are for. Can you imagine how tedious a travelling companion 20 of the little ****ers can be? Trust me, a group of someone else's kids can ruin the most awesome experiences. And that's before you are on evening duty and entertainment - doling out medication, dealing with parents, trips to hospitals. And that's ignoring spending weeks before generating reams of risk assessment paperwork. It's a properly shit job. And the best bit is you are doing it at a time when you could otherwise be kicking back with a cold beer (you can't drink as adult in charge of trip) with your own family, out mountain biking, or binge watching Netflix in nothing but your boy boy pants. The only crumbs of pleasure you get from running a trip is because you think (maybe misguidedly) that it is important that opportunities are made available and watching the kids have fun is a reward in itself for the sort of people who usually become teachers. I'll make this very clear - It is not a free holiday. Some of the hardest weeks of my career have been running trips.

A few points:

Don’t get me wrong, both the trips I went on had lots of positive impacts but there were negative ones too and I’m left with doubts about how lasting some of the positive ones will be.

I agree. At a blunt level, a profit making company is all about profit, the 'good cause' is a tool to sell more. A third sector organisation is much more likely to be focussed on the good cause. Hence my suggestion about looking at other providers.

As a parent you and your child are interested in the personal development - living away from home, hard work, self organisation, challenge, working with others, character development etc. This is why you go on such trips - the good cause is a vehicle to that. But you can have that same self development experience in the UK...

The cost of these trips is down to how far and how remote you travel. You could have a similar challenging personal development experience in the UK, and there are opportunities to support more needy in UK and EU. So why then go so far? Two reasons - firstly a brochure that offers Ecuador sounds and looks more glamorous than one that offers Romania. Secondly it is even more radically different culture and environment - but they you question how much culture is experienced when living in a group of your friends, sheltered and secure from harm...

A truly sustainable learning experience would have been co-designed with the pupils - they would have come up with a good cause, they would fund-raise for all to attend (not the few), they would develop the programme. I wonder, did a headteacher phone the company selling these trips and say 'i have a set of pupils who want to....' or has the trip come about through the company phoning the school to sell this?

I have a career in outdoor education. This last week I have delivered two twilight sessions in schools on designing residential and day trips - and who can help provide them. I am a huge fan.

But I have big issues about these big ticket trips - especially when a commercial company is involved, and it is not co-designed.

I would also like to say that the vast majority of school trips are chuffing hard work before, during and after for school staff. They carry huge responsibility, working all hours, with children who lets face it are rather unpredictable. Please don't suggest it is a jolly. That said, my own sons' school who chose a French trip that was 2 days in Quebec and 3 days shopping in New York were likely not motivated by inclusion....

More reading
https://learningaway.org.uk

Interesting article here https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/14/orphans-cambodia-aids-holidays-madonna

Something similar was offered to our lass this year. 3K for the chance to take part in a volunteer project in India for a couple of weeks and do a bit of sightseeing in Mumbai.

Given that paying for it would have meant her having no life while she fundraises non-stop for the next year, then us stepping in to pay the balance when she couldn't raise enough, we told her that for a fraction of that, we could pay for her to have a trip somewhere in Europe when she's 18.

Unimpressed by the scale and cost of school trips in general. Last year the children who couldn't afford even the cheapest activities got the opportunity to stay and paint the school during enrichment week...

I liked Ecuador, it's quite a cool place in a sort of microcosm of South America in one compact country way - you get big snowy volcanos, some jungle, a bit of coastline and the Galapagos in a relatively small geographical area.

Coincidentally, I was there in my mid-30s as part of a year-long climbing, trekking travelling gig around - mostly - the Andes. I did't do the whole gap year thing when I was younger and I kind of made up for it later.

One of the over-riding impressions I got from the trip generally was that travel is sometimes wasted on the young. It sometimes felt like student-age travel kids were so caught up in each other, getting stoned, laid, drunk and repeat, that they often forgot to look at what was around them. I know that's a gross generalisation, but I think it was the case for a lot of younger travellers.

I wonder if you can come up with an alternative, less expensive way of her having a travel-type experience without going the whole £4K hog. Of course, if that's easily affordable, then what the heck, but it seems like an awful lot, even taking long haul air fares into account.

I've been invited a few times recently to contribute to these types of trips through "fundraising events". My middle class, state school attending friend's kids off to have a "lifetime" experience. I politely refused. My priorities for spending go my family then real charitable causes, well before funding little jonny's trip.

As has been said before these are commercial companies using the twin sales and marketing-gold-assets of "ethical/charitable" descriptions and teenager peer-pressure. I think state schools should have a cap on their trips as it's pretty divisive to promote events that 80% plus maybe of kids/families could never participate in.

15/16 yr olds have an awful lot of life left to have experiences of a lifetime. A significant amount of the great experiences is in the planning, arranging and resultant jeopardy of finding out if it will all come together. Do that as a say 21 year old and you experience a hell of a lot more for less cash than a chaperoned 3rd world-lite trip.

The trips we went on were massively over subscribed so for the second one we made the first part of the selection process doing some voluntary work for a local charity. The pupils selected then continued to do local voluntary work, partly for group bonding but also in acknowledgement that they were fundraising from the community. That sorted out the ones who thought it would just be a holiday.

Oh and to the person upthread suggesting these trips are a bit of a jolly for the teachers: I could quite happily have gone without the 25 minute minibus journey on dirt road holding an unconscious pupils head to maintain their airway followed by the hour of dealing with petty African hospital bureaucracy. I really enjoyed both my trips but looking after other peoples children, especially in a developing world country most certainly is not a jolly!

My dad did a few World challenge expeditions with his school but I think they came to an end because they realised the voluntary work aspect was a waste of resources and was not actually helping the folk it was supposed to. They could see evidence of previous work that had never been used and felt they were doing stuff for the sake of it. Designed to make people feel good.

Shocking!

I have a mate in Central America, he is really well off and very generous, if you agree to bring back some suitcases of "confectionary" for him I'm sure he will cover the cost of the trip, for sure..