I want to drop down to a 4 day week, taking Monday's off. I asked if I would get another day off in lieu of Banks Holiday Mondays and was told I wouldn't. There are 2 other people here working part-time. One takes every Thursday off and the other takes Thursday Friday. They are both allowed to swap these days if they need to. So they would get the benefit of a Bank Holiday Monday but I wouldn't. This doesn't seem right to me. Am I wrong?
Doesnt seem right. Unless they are paying you for the bank holiday?
I have every other friday off and with the upcoming bank holiday friday i am just swapping it to the following week (as it falls on my day off).
We would all get paid for the Bank Holiday Monday.
I'd expect everything to be pro-rata. Pay, holiday, bank holiday. All in proportion to your hours vs full time hours
I'm going to examine how my contract is worded since I have just read this:
What If Your Employment Contract Promises Bank Holidays?
If your contract or holiday policy states that employees are entitled to a set number of days “plus bank holidays” (or to “all bank holidays off”), then you may have to provide an alternative day off if a bank holiday falls on their non-working day.
Contractual wording is everything here. Phrases like:
- “20 days paid leave plus all bank holidays” – may require you to honour the full number of bank holidays, regardless of work schedule.
- “28 days’ annual leave including bank holidays” – means bank holidays are included within the statutory total; no makeup day is required if one is missed due to a rest day
I'd expect everything to be pro-rata. Pay, holiday, bank holiday. All in proportion to your hours vs full time hours
That's what I get working Mon to Thurs, but gets a bit complicated when Xmas day & new yrs falls on a Friday, haven't worked it out but I'm sure as near as dammit works out over the cycle of years.
It’s based pro-rata you’d get 80% of the holidays. The bank holidays would be part of your holidays you gave up. Why would you get a days holiday for a day off?
Yeah, it'll come down to the wording of your particular employment Ts & Cs.
- “28 days’ annual leave including bank holidays” – means bank holidays are included within the statutory total; no makeup day is required if one is missed due to a rest day
^ That's how mine works. I'm compressed/(very slightly) reduced hours over 4 days - mostly but not always worked as Mon-Thu. My A/L entitlement includes the public holidays which I've then got to apply for out of my leave balance.
My contract says "
- You are entitled to X days holiday per year in addition to bank and public holidays and the Company Christmas shutdown.
It should be consistent, but in my view, if Monday is your non-working day, then you don't get another day off...unless you are working a compressed week (so all hours worked in 4 days).
You'll see why I'm not a manager!
In the civil service bank holidays are pro rata, so I get 80% of Bank Holidays. When Monday was my day off it worked fine, unused hours became extra leave. Now I have Fridays off, so some years I need to use annual leave at Christmas.
This is not a pop at you OP...probably more at you bosses level....
Stuff like this shouldn't be a thing if we were collectively at least functionally numerate. This stuff is so easy to get your head around with pretty straightforward understanding of numbers so it baffles me how many people who really should know better, and doing it is part of their actual job, just can't.
Over the last 10 years Mrs C has worked in 4 days weeks or compressed hours roles for a number of different employers. The number of people in HR/payroll who she's had to do maths paint by numbers with to help them understand leave entitlement and not just lose their shit. It's not that they they were out to diddle her, they just were universally incapable of primary school level maths to actually get it right.
I work 0.8 FTE, so I get pro-rata bank holiday and annual leave. I either book the bank holiday as leave or swap my working days around to avoid using leave - so work a friday instead which is usually my non-working day.
My A/L entitlement includes the public holidays which I've then got to apply for out of my leave balance.
This
work 0.8 FTE, so I get pro-rata bank holiday and annual leave.
This
in my view, if Monday is your non-working day, then you don't get another day off...
Definitely not this!
You'll see why I'm not a manager!
But this!
The only issue is what @morecashthandash alludes to in that some public / bank holidays in some orgs can't be optional. e.g. you can't not take Christmas Day and New Years day in some places. Where that's the case you have to use proportionally more leave to take them. Bit of a first world problem though.
I was always told that the golden rule with 4 day weeks was never drop Mondays or Fridays.
Mondays mean Bank Holidays become an issue and Friday's as, well, it's Friday isn't it? Most people at my place of work who do 4 days have Tuesday or Wednesday off and say the broken week works really well.
I am coming round to this point of view myself now.
I asked if I would get another day off in lieu of Banks Holiday Mondays and was told I wouldn't.
The problem most employers have is that the contracts (they download from the internet) often don't meet reality when staff want to reduce their hours and those pesky employment laws get in the way of badly worded leave entitlement calculations.
Take a mid week day off, it's a bunch easier.
So it seems. The reason I came up with Monday's off was because I am restricted to taking either Mondays, Tuesdays or Wednesdays off and we are often away at weekends and so we'd get a nice long break. I might have to (reluctantly) have a rethink.
There should be no reason to rethink a long weekend is great. There are 8 bank holidays. If you work 8 hours a day then you get 8 x 8 x 80% = 51.2 hours bank holiday time to use. Based on a full year.
In 2026 three bank holiday fall when you are working which is 24 hours that you take off.
This leaves you with 51.2 - 24 = 27.2 hours (three days + 3.2 hours) to use at any time that suits you.
You will need to base the calculation from when you move to part time for the remainder of 2026
I'm struggling to see why anyone would want to pick a mid week day off? Each to their own I suppose. I'll be asking to drop to 3 days a week when I hit 60 (6.5 years and counting) a regular Thursday/Friday off ideally, Monday/Tuesday would be fine, mid week? Yeah, no.
If you work 8 hours a day then you get 8 x 8 x 80% = 51.2 hours bank holiday time to use.
Not quite. If the office/work is closed on a bank holiday you still don't come to work, you just get a pro-rata of the time off.
So standard 28 days (including bank holidays) for a FTE in hours (standard hours is now 7.5) is 210 hours. 60 hours of that is bank holiday, so your bookable amount is 150.
If the 5 days FTE week is 37.5hrs, for 4 days it'll be 30.00hrs or .80FTE.
so your hourly annual holiday amount is 168
60 hours of that is still going to be used for bank holidays. Your usable holidays is now 108
I don't think its clear cut. It will be even more confusing if your workplace is the sort of place which is actually open on public holidays and people who work it get paid extra or time in leiu etc! Essentially by asking to go 4 days you are renegotiating your contract. It is important to be clear about it - there are rules that say part time workers should not be treated less favourably than full time, but unless there's been case law to specifically test this point I don't think its cast in stone. The nuance of how employment contracts are worded will matter even if has been "tested". An employer with a Union and a competent HR department have probably got this clearly defined in a policy. Other employers will not and either see public holidays as a clearly defined contractual commitment which are pro-rata'd or just a weird notional idea to work around!
At my last place the senior leadership didn't want everyone who was part time taking mondays off so they intentionally structured their contracts and policies to make it less attractive to people working 3 or 4 days to take a monday.
Stuff like this shouldn't be a thing if we were collectively at least functionally numerate. This stuff is so easy to get your head around with pretty straightforward understanding of numbers so it baffles me how many people who really should know better, and doing it is part of their actual job, just can't.In fairness the same is true of employees: the number of people who when they are leaving who can't work out their pro-rata holiday allowance is amazing.
If I was an employer arguing bank holidays are not suitable for pro rata'd I'd point out that an employee who joins or leaves mid holiday year doesn't get 1/2 the bank holiday allowance (in any normal employer with set BH's) - in E&W there are 8 BHs and if you holiday year in Jan1-Dec31 then 5 are in the first half of the year (if your year runs April-March then the movement of Easter makes it even less consistent!). The whole reason for BH's being "useful" to employers is your customers and suppliers close on those dates too and therefore synchronising to those days brings efficiencies. The same is not true if employees who didn't work the BH anyway then get an extra day (or 0.8 day) to use when it suits. IF you are going to "do that" you should make it mandatory when that BH is taken otherwise your part timers are getting flexibility your full time staff are not afforded.
Personally I think BH's are a nonsense outside of some specific industries (like banks!) where its actually convenient to all shut down the same day. We deal internationally and so our customers aren't on holiday the same days and even within the UK there are days which are not consistent.
From ACAS....
Bank holidays on days a worker does not usually work
A bank holiday might be on a day a worker does not usually work. For example, if someone works part time and does not work on Mondays.
In this situation, the employer cannot make them use that day as part of their holiday entitlement.
Example of bank holidays falling on non-working days
Ali works 3 days a week, including Mondays. Jo also works 3 days a week but does not work on Mondays.
They both get the statutory 5.6 weeks of holiday. This includes bank holidays. They both get 16.8 days' holiday per year. Their employer closes the business on bank holidays.
As more bank holidays fall on a Monday, Ali has to use more of their holiday entitlement for bank holidays than Jo.
This is not rocket science.
I'm struggling to see why anyone would want to pick a mid week day off? Each to their own I suppose. I'll be asking to drop to 3 days a week when I hit 60 (6.5 years and counting) a regular Thursday/Friday off ideally, Monday/Tuesday would be fine, mid week? Yeah, no.
I used to work with someone who went to 4 days but because of "business requirements" could only have Wed off. She grudingly accepted because it was to help care for an elderly parent. I spoke to her after 6 months and she said she wouldn't change it even if offered - she said it was like having "2 day week" and by taking 1 day of annual leave she could turn every bank holiday into 5 consecutive days out the office.
I'm struggling to see why anyone would want to pick a mid week day off?
Every worker I've negotiated a mid-week day off has told me they'd never go back, and TBH (anecdotally) I reckon they're more productive and content than both full time and part time workers who have beginning or end of week off.
I'm struggling to see why anyone would want to pick a mid week day off?
I was going to ask how old you are and where you live. But you answered the former in your post. I'm the same age and find that by the time weekend comes I'm too knackered to go anywhere. So a day off midweek might replenish the batteries
Regarding location, if you live somewhere awesome, Ie Aviemore then I expect that you don't need to bundle your days up to get somewhere nice.
Having said all of which, living in the shithole that is Manchester, I agree entirely that it would need to be Monday or Friday to allow long enough to get away from the place.
Every worker I've negotiated a mid-week day off has told me they'd never go back
Exactly, taking Wednesday off would be ideal. Splits the week up, gives time to do stuff when everyone else is working ie hit the trails when they are quiet. And for me it is noticeable that Mondays and Fridays are the quietest commuting traffic days for the past few years, since home working and became more common. As I can't afford to "go away" for much of my vacation entitlement, through summer I often just take quite a few Wednesdays off for those reasons
I get to work home 2 days a week, and I usually WFH on Tuesday and Thursday, for much the same reasons.
Yes - but in my experience many UK employment contracts don't say "5.6 weeks including bank holidays" they say "X days plus such days the company may declare as 'public holidays' from time to time" or similar - thats where the issue arises.From ACAS....
Bank holidays on days a worker does not usually work
A bank holiday might be on a day a worker does not usually work. For example, if someone works part time and does not work on Mondays.
In this situation, the employer cannot make them use that day as part of their holiday entitlement.
Example of bank holidays falling on non-working days
Ali works 3 days a week, including Mondays. Jo also works 3 days a week but does not work on Mondays.
They both get the statutory 5.6 weeks of holiday. This includes bank holidays. They both get 16.8 days' holiday per year. Their employer closes the business on bank holidays.
As more bank holidays fall on a Monday, Ali has to use more of their holiday entitlement for bank holidays than Jo.
This is not rocket science.
I don't work Mondays. My AL entitlement is my contracted leave + BH, pro-rated down based on my reduced working hours.
This means I get a pro-rated number of hours for BHs, which I can use whenever I like, as I don't need to book any Monday BHs off (timesheet system has 0hrs required).
I'm struggling to see why anyone would want to pick a mid week day off? Each to their own I suppose. I'll be asking to drop to 3 days a week when I hit 60 (6.5 years and counting) a regular Thursday/Friday off ideally, Monday/Tuesday would be fine, mid week? Yeah, no.
I used to work with someone who went to 4 days but because of "business requirements" could only have Wed off. She grudingly accepted because it was to help care for an elderly parent. I spoke to her after 6 months and she said she wouldn't change it even if offered - she said it was like having "2 day week" and by taking 1 day of annual leave she could turn every bank holiday into 5 consecutive days out the office.
I've had a think about this after reading your reply.
Tuesday/Wednesday off might work quite well as immediately you've 8 weeks a year where you'll only be working two days a week due to bank holidays. Add on you're holiday entitlement too and you can spend half the year working two days a week with 5 days off between, I think I could get behind that 😀
I'm struggling to see why anyone would want to pick a mid week day off?
I was going to ask how old you are and where you live. But you answered the former in your post. I'm the same age and find that by the time weekend comes I'm too knackered to go anywhere. So a day off midweek might replenish the batteries
Regarding location, if you live somewhere awesome, Ie Aviemore then I expect that you don't need to bundle your days up to get somewhere nice.
Having said all of which, living in the shithole that is Manchester, I agree entirely that it would need to be Monday or Friday to allow long enough to get away from the place.
Mid-cheshire, about 5 miles from Oulton Park, not quite as awesome as Aviemore but still a nice place to be.
I use my time at work to recover from my weekends 😀 as my weekends quite often look like this (infact, I'm in that video a couple of times)
Race days are usually Sunday, so Monday/Tuesday off would be ideal as I usually feel like I've been run over (and sometimes have been)
Yes - but in my experience many UK employment contracts don't say "5.6 weeks including bank holidays" they say "X days plus such days the company may declare as 'public holidays' from time to time" or similar - thats where the issue arises.
It can get messy around the edges. A confusing one was a colleague who was 0.8 FTE but with a 6 day a week working pattern to do those 0.8 FTE hours...where the hours done each day of the 6 day week varied from day of the week to day of the week. Fun fact, statuary minimum leave is capped at 28 days no matter if you do a 5 or 6 day working week - I know! But this guy was only 0.8FTE so obviously entitled to less leave. Yes, a person with a brain would work in hours not days and a good employer would wave the 28 thing, but good god trying to watch an office womble with sub par maths try to get their head around the leave entitlement and being determined to do it in days not hours was excruciating.
As mentioned above, I would expect you to get pro rata holiday entitlement which essentially makes bank holidays flexible. In that case you're basically trading bank holiday days off for holiday days instead. If your day off is Monday, you get to spend most of that on whatever day you want instead since most bank holidays land on a Monday. I think allowing people to move their day off around bank holidays is pretty discretionary to an employer. But if they do allow it, then you end up with a fair bit more holiday than full time employees who are forced to have that day off on a BH.
TLDR you should get 0.8x( your current holiday days + 8 bank holidays) as your leave allowance, and any way you swing it, this is better than the deal for full timers
My full time annual leave for various reasons used to be:- 20 + 1 + 5 + 5 +1 + bank holidays, working 4 days a week Mon to Fri brought it to 31 x 0.8 + 1 + bank holidays x 0.8, the office HR took a while to fathom the first bit out, so I've not bothered them with the calculation for the bh bit & just take the rough with the smooth if there is one or three BH Fridays in any particular year, or worry about Friday being a knock off 30mins early day anyways. Life's too short to get stressed about that kind of shit.
Probably varies from place to place.
I don’t work Mondays and have a 4-day 29.5 hour working week.
when I made that change my annual leave accrual changed proportionately. Public holidays were removed and proportionately turned into additional leave allowance.
if I want a Friday bank holiday then I need to use a day’s leave to take it. Mondays are always a holiday.
I imagine the way it’s administered could vary from employer to employee. Best to ask before accepting a change to your working week to be sure you’re happy with it.
When I used to do this my company worked out my total holidays inc. bank holidays for a 5 day week. I then got 80% of this for Easter and Xmas those bank holidays came out of my holiday unless they were on a Monday.
The other option which is more complicated in a large organisation is to adjust salary accordingly. Effectively you trip your pay pro rata based on the number of days you would not be working. So effectively taking every day that wasn't a bank holiday as unpaid leave.
I had a fried who got the Monday bank holidays as extra days. So 4 day week, 28 days holiday + all bank holidays that were on a Monday. She bought 4 more days and was always away on holiday!
Update: I’ve gone for Tuesdays!
Btw many thanks to everyone who contributed to this. It is appreciated. 👏👏👏
Be interested in how Tuesdays work for you. I have Fridays because it fits with looking after my parents, but there is a great club "retirees" ride on a Wednesday that I would aim for if it was totally my own choice.
Depends if you end up feeling you have two Mondays though
Update: I’ve gone for Tuesdays!
Good news. This does mean that no one at work will every be able to say they'll see you next Tuesday, so there's a bonus.
Depends if you end up feeling you have two Mondays though
For me it would be the two Sunday nights I'd struggle with.
I mostly work a 6 day week, with a 7 day week every 3 or 4 weeks (then long holidays - but let's focus on the negatives!) and the phycological relief of 2 nights in a row without work the next morning is SO much more than one night twice if that makes sense. If the times comes when I can wind down a bit (Mrs C has just been made redundant to my semi freedom has just been pushed into this even longer grass) I'd really want a long weekend rather than a bits and pieces approach.