[Closed] 3 series touring or 4 series coupe

Hi! 😀

The 4 series is a stunning shape and deserves a big engine to enjoy IMO. Im saying this becuase there was a 430d msport in a hotel lobby i stayed at recently - it was stunning. A bit paper tiger otherwise.

I had one of the first 3 series coupe's back in the early 1990's - beautiful 2L straight six petrol. If you don't need the estate get the 4 series coupe, its a lovely looking car.

I do like the look of the 4 - there's a bit of midlife crisis about it though 😆

geoffj - Member
I do like the look of the 4 - there's a bit of midlife crisis about it though

Especially when there's a "20" after the 4 and an M badge 😉

Especially when there's a "20" after the 4 and an M badge

Debadged obvs! 😉

[img] [/img]

Mmm...

I'm planning on a 4 series gran coupe next. Tourer is a bit overkill for me, but I'd like a hatch and the 4 series is a hotty.

X6.

Obviously.

If you're going to go w***, you may as well go full w***.

😉

I test drove a 320d and liked it.

I test drove a 320i and didn't like.

petrol version just seemed sluggish.

I'd have a proper drive before decidin on petrol

Debadged obvs!

Debadging = this car has a small engine and the driver is ashamed of it - whatever anyone says to the contrary, that's what it means 🙂

Since when is a 2.0L a small engine? Especially a BMW one.
For a lot of brands, 2L's are one of the biggest they do.

I test drove a 320i and didn't like.

😐 I'm going to have to have test drive

Looked at both of these recently. 4 series Gran Coupe is lovely to look at and the hatch actual looks quite practical too. It is quite low and a mate had to walk away from getting one due to his dodgy back not coping. 3 series Touring also nice but doesn't feel as nice inside oddly.

As with everyone else it needs a bigger engine though. The hottest 4 pot is probably the best one as the 6 sounds lovely but has a poorer mpg by quite a way.

Second hand an option to get that 335/340i?

My mid life crisis means getting a hot hatch though instead!

Since when is a 2.0L a small engine? Especially a BMW one.
For a lot of brands, 2L's are one of the biggest they do.

Maybe if you are looking at Fiesta's, but not in this sector. Apples and oranges. If you look at the range as a whole, it's one of the smaller engines/outputs. If you vain enough to be buying the car as a ego-wagen it does spoil the image to those that care, regardless of how good the car is in relative terms.

slackboy - Member
I test drove a 320d and liked it.

I test drove a 320i and didn't like.

petrol version just seemed sluggish.

I'd have a proper drive before decidin on petrol

In my experience you tend to need to 'size up' by one engine when switching from diesel to petrol. Not because of the amount of power but to get a similar amount of torque. The 30i has a similar torque to the 20d. That's what stops the engine from feeling 'sluggish'. And you also need to remember to rev a petrol engine. Took me a while to get back into that habit after spending so many years driving oil.

Although I'd never choose a BMW, the 4 series would get my vote as the better looking car.

We have a 120d and a 320i. The 320i does feel a bit sluggish, after the torque of the 120d, but when I remember to change up later, the car feels sprightly enough. The engines are similar in overall power, they just deliver it differently.

(Neither car feels underpowered despite only having a 2L engine)

You'll find it hard to get any better a car than one of these. Lauded now for its lithe handling and grunty engine, build quality in old skool robust.

E46 330i sport touring.

[img] [/img]

Note that 320i defaults to 'Comfort" mode, if you click mode to "Sport" it is no longer that sluggish. Diesels seem to be less affected by these settings as you'll get plenty of torque in all 2 liter diesel engines.
There is setting for auto gear box too and even optional "Sport+" mode too 🙂
That said, my 3yo F31 is a bit noisy (tyre noise mostly) and there are couple of squeaks from the trim and sport seats are bit annoying to adjust without electrics (especially the height).

@BB,

The newer E91 is better built than the E46 by all accounts.
I've got the 325i (N53 3.0L) and it's been great. Pretty economical (28-33mpg right foot dependent) and is reasonably rapid. Will get it deresteicted via Mosselman later this year to 330i output if all things go well.

Bikes sit happily on a towbar mounted rack and boards either inside or on rack depending on the surf mission details!

My brother has a 440i.

Its lovely, its not earth shatteringly quick, but fast enough and just very nicely put together and that straight six sounds amazing! Its also surprisingly frugal regularly getting high 30's mpg and even over 40 when bimbling along on the motorway. He got a 520d courtesy car the other day and was surprised by how well in compared in terms of fuel economy

Debadging = this car has a small engine and the driver is ashamed of it - whatever anyone says to the contrary, that's what it means

His is debadged

 

[I]I do like the look of the 4 - there's a bit of midlife crisis about it though [/I]

Yep, this is ours:

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I'm 52, had loads of motorbikes, on my second wife and live nowhere near the sea (so speedboat out of the question) - a flash car was the only option 🙂

315 bhp, 0-60 in 4.7 seconds, xDrive, auto and currently at 36mpg (slowly getting better, still only 3k miles though).

Makes sense to debadge a larger engined model to stop other people being judgmental or driving like a-holes near your pride and joy.

Pretty economical (28-33mpg right foot dependent)

😯

That's woeful.

Not for a 4 litre 300bhp car its not.

[i]Not for a 4 litre 300bhp car its not. [/I]

It's a 3 litre engine.

The same that my 435d is also a 3 litre.

Kryton57 - Member

Not for a 4 litre 300bhp car its not.

Firstly, I was commenting on mikertroid's 325 touring.

Secondly, when you are talking about using up a finite resource in a terribly damaging way, 28mpg is woeful and convincing yourself it isn't is foolish and selfish. 🙂

You'll find it hard to get any better a car than one of these. Lauded now for its lithe handling and grunty engine, build quality in old skool robust.

E46 330i sport touring.

It's owning one of those for 12 months which started all this 😀

@BB,

The newer E91 is better built than the E46 by all accounts.

I'd agree with that having owned them both.

Personally, I'd stick with a 3 series of some sort because I'm not sold on how the 4 series looks.

My big issue is the lack of straight six engines in the new range - the engine in our 330 was brilliant.

The latest six pot diesels though are very good and seriously quick, if lacking in the noise department.

if lacking in the noise department.

Although they do pipe a nice noise through the stereo as a replacement.

Although they do pipe a nice noise through the stereo as a replacement.

I meant that they still sound like a Massey Ferguson on start up / low revs. The growl under acceleration isn't too bad though.

3 series in saloon format is better looking than 4 series imo. It's all to do with how the higher rear roof line makes it look more nose down and aggressive, and better highlights the rear arch/tyre interface!

[img] [/img]

Debadging, this is the first car which I have debadged and I don't think it fools anyone as it has single exhaust pipe and 16" wheels. 😀
Reason for debadging was that being OCD I couldn't cope with 320i and xdrive badge being so annoingly positioned on the trunk - they are not centered vertically or horisontally and letter styling is completely different. It is zero cost option from factory anyway so it is quite common not to have them.

Reason for debadging was that being OCD I couldn't cope with 320i and xdrive badge being so annoyingly positioned on the trunk - they are not centered vertically or horizontally and letter styling is completely different. It is zero cost option from factory anyway so it is quite common not to have them.

+1

The new 330 is a 2l 4 pot engine. If you are any the six pot you'll need to spring for the 340.

Either way the auto box is very smooth.

Anybody driven the 2 series coupe? In terms of driving pleasure does it compete with its older brother the 4 series?

Currently thinking about replacing my Ibiza with something a bit faster and better handling. The 2 and 4 series look like good options.

Don't really need bags of power, 8 sec 0-60 is more than enough (I think??) mostly after a fun and agile car that can squeeze a couple adults in the back for a short journey.

Which one is best for carrying a bike ? or isn't that a use case ?

Snob . so should we just scrapp all cars that won't do more than 40mph then ?

Don't need car to carry bikes have a van for that. Just want something that can be used everyday for short journeys and the occasional longer trip and is fun to drive and looks good.

Then this..

Don't worry about debating whether it's good or not, we've been there and done that..

[img] [/img]

littlelordfauntleroy - Member

Sbob . so should we just scrap all cars that won't do more than 40mpg then?

No, just yours. 🙂
Or we could convert them to run off straw men. 😀

jairaj - Member
Anybody driven the 2 series coupe? In terms of driving pleasure does it compete with its older brother the 4 series?

Currently thinking about replacing my Ibiza with something a bit faster and better handling. The 2 and 4 series look like good options.

When changing from the bag of sh1t Octavia to the current car I test drove the 2 series coupe as an M Sport 2.0 diesel. Handling and comfort were brilliant, a really enjoyable car to drive and noticeably better than the 3 or 4 series. In the end I went for the 3 series as more available used meant I could get a better equipped car for less. Not much between the 3 and 4 series expect 2 doors less and bigger prices.

Boot space isn't too bad but you will struggle to get a bike inside and I think the rear seats are fixed.

[s]@jairaj the 2 series is so ugly I won't even stand next to one in case some of it rubs off 😉 If you want such a car just by a Honda Jazz.[/s]

Sorry mixed up Coupe version with stock box car.

Sorry mixed up Coupe version with stock box car.

the 2 series tourer really is a horrible thing. Still if Porsche are making SUVs then I guess you can't really have a go at BMW for wanting sell MPVs to badge snobs.

Its still less gopping than an X1

I really wanted a 6 pot, so bought an older 325i. In retrospect I'm not too sure why I was so desperate for a 6 pot, it's not very fast most of the time, costs lots of VED, drinks petrol (15mpg around town!) and seems to cost lots to insure.

"There's no replacement for displacement" is rubbish, turbos clearly are a replacement these days.

That said, you should clearly get a new Mustang GT, 4 seats, holding their value ridiculously well, only slightly less boot than a 4 series, can almost get away with go faster stripes.

In retrospect I'm not too sure why I was so desperate for a 6 pot,

They do sound luvverly though.

4 series is bigger than the 3 series, I'm long legged just over 6' and my son who's just under 6' is happy to sit behind me. Only 4 seats thou.

Ours has the split seats and you could get an MTB in, wheels off. Although my OH suggested if my bike would fit in so would my coffin...

They do sound luvverly though.

Tragically the sound isolation is really good, I previously had a Cooper S which was like being inside a lawnmower.

The BMW is really quiet and smooth, I must admit I do like how smooth the straight 6 pulls compared to any 4 cylinders I've driven though. I also convinced myself that the lack of filters, turbos and gizmos would mean it would last forever.

Toasty - Member

"There's no replacement for displacement" is rubbish

You obviously haven't experienced enough displacement. 😈

This is true, although I was initially demoing 350z/370z and Caymans, then suddenly my wife became pregnant and it became 3 Series and Mondeos 😐

I think it was the potential car I lost, which left me desperately seeking a 6-pot "dad" car 🙂 Probably why I mentioned a Mustang above or possibly a 911, the kings of 4 seater dad cars!

Maybe if you are looking at Fiesta's, but not in this sector. Apples and oranges. If you look at the range as a whole, it's one of the smaller engines/outputs.

What is "this" sector? 3 series run from mondo prices all the way up and I'd bet that the vast majority of these cares are sold in 2L models. Mondeo ST is only 2.0l.
A 2.0l car is a 2.0l car no matter who makes it or where it sits in the range. Most have around 180hp which is plenty.
People can debadge if they like, but it's a fact that a 2.0l is not a small engine neither is a 1.8 for that matter.

Test drive a 330e and you won't want a petrol or diesel again!

I went from a 320d Touring to a 330e saloon and not missed the extra boot space at all.

The 330e comes with a new 2.0 petrol which is fantastic, then you add in electric boost to the equation and it's so much nicer than diesel or petrol.

Round town electric makes you realise how awful diesel or petrol are.

On the open road power is instant, and sounds pretty reasonable for a 4 pot.

If you could get an electric 4 series I'd get that, lower and wider.

Or get a preorder down on a Tesla Model 3, you love your 320d anyway 😛

Test drive a 330e and you won't want a petrol or diesel again!

I enquired and was told that the finances only really work for company car drivers - I'm not sure how much BS that was, but it was a pretty short conversation.

Or get a preorder down on a Tesla Model 3, you love your 320d anyway

Not a bad call that really.

That said, you should clearly get a new Mustang GT, 4 seats

Saying a Mustang has 4 proper seats is pushing things a bit

The 330e is slightly more than equivalent model, not sure if the government still contribute to cost of the car?

I'm now getting better mpg than my old 320d approx 55mpg overall, not bad for 6 second 0-60.

Of course you could wait until next year for the full electric 3 series

I wouldn't buy a 330e solely for the mpg, it's not going to be that staggering:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/bmw/3-series-f30-2012/330e

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/bmw/3-series-f30-2012/320d-efficientdynamics

Not a bad call that really.

I think it's the direction I'd go, it depends if you need to do crazy big miles in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4VGQPk2Dl8

The tech in them is amazing, the Model 3 really doesn't sound hugely compromised, it just sounds like the Model S/X were subsidizing the project, hence the inflated prices. Autopilot!

Toasty - so 50mpg in a car that does 0-60 in 6 seconds isn't good in your book?

Name me one other car that can !?

FD - I take it the fuel consumption has got a lot better since when it was new?! You were reporting 20mpg (on the IC engine alone admittedly) a couple of months back

Nick - it has, but only by me doing what it says you shouldn't. You are supposed to use the sat Nav to intelligently make use of battery.

If you do that your ****ed and get silly mpg if doing any reasonable distance. I now work on a rule that if I'm in built up slow traffic kick it in to electric, any out of town force it to combustion engine.

sbob - Member
Toasty - Member
"There's no replacement for displacement" is rubbish

You obviously haven't experienced enough displacement

Displacement [b]and[/b] Turbos is the way to do !

@Sbob

28 mpg on a 'spirited' day. 32 if I drive steadily. Yup, pretty good and far better than those Plug-in electrics that have a higher cradle-to-grave emissions amount. That is until we go fully nuclear.

My day-job will see me get through >50,000 litres per day so I can't lose sleep over being 10mpg below so-called eco wagons. 8)

And to echo above: displacement plus a couple of turbos is the way forward.

What is "this" sector? 3 series run from mondo prices all the way up and I'd bet that the vast majority of these cares are sold in 2L models. Mondeo ST is only 2.0l.
A 2.0l car is a 2.0l car no matter who makes it or where it sits in the range. Most have around 180hp which is plenty.

Perspective. A 2L Mondeo is top or near top of the range (engine size, ignoring trim level). A 318d or 320d is under a 325, 330, 335, 340 etc (M3 if we include petrol models), so clearly near the bottom of the range. [b]No one is saying that these ranges are parallel.[/b] Imaging telling a mate you just got a new Mondeo. Oh, really - what engine size? '2L'. Ooh, nice. Same situation with a 3 series? '320d'. Oh, an economical one them. Perspective.

People can debadge if they like, but it's a fact that a 2.0l is not a small engine neither is a 1.8 for that matter.

Not a 'fact'......in any way. I challenge you (within the context of this thread) to argue otherwise! Unless you believe only your perspective is valid (it isn't by the way :roll:), there is just no winning that argument. Whether an engine is 'small' or not is entirely subjective in this sense. You could take the statistical mean engine capacity of every car on the road as a benchmark, but in the context of this discussion that is entirely irrelevant. To a Bently driver, a 2L engine is small. Try thinking outside of your own frame of reference, if you can.

In terms of what outputs you can get on a 3 series, the 318d and 320d are at the bottom of the range. Nothing at all wrong with them, but where they sit in that range is undeniable. Someone driving a M3 may well think a 1.8L is a small engine compared to their car, and from a subjective perspective that is difficult to argue against.

PS when does the 318d get delivered? 😉

Perspective. A 2L Mondeo is top or near top of the range (engine size, ignoring trim level). A 318d or 320d is under a 325, 330, 335, 340 etc (M3 if we include petrol models), so clearly near the bottom of the range.

A 2.0l car is a 2.0l car no matter who makes it or where it sits in the range.

Try thinking outside of your own frame of reference, if you can.

Regarding debadging, some self proclaimed "alphas" with latent issues are so insecure in the adequacy in their genitals that they need a 3 on the back of their car rather than a 2. There is no helping these people.

PS when does the 318d get delivered?

I don't have one, nor one on order. I have a 320d (GT in lux spec which I'm very fond of since you ask) with the numbers on the back. I have luxury genitals. 😉

A 2.0L is not a small engine.

See my post above. You have not countered the argument in any way, but I will indulge you and paste from from previous post:

Not a 'fact'......in any way. I challenge you (within the context of this thread) to argue otherwise! Unless you believe only your perspective is valid (it isn't by the way :roll:), there is just no winning that argument. Whether an engine is 'small' or not is entirely subjective in this sense. You could take the statistical mean engine capacity of every car on the road as a benchmark, but in the context of this discussion that is entirely irrelevant. To a Bently driver, a 2L engine is small. Try thinking outside of your own frame of reference, if you can

In terms of what outputs you can get on a 3 series, the 318d and 320d are at the bottom of the range. Nothing at all wrong with them, but where they sit in that range is undeniable. Someone driving a M3 may well think a 1.8L is a small engine compared to their car, and from a subjective perspective that is difficult to argue against.

Any normal person equates a ford 2.0 to any other 2.0.

In other news, the pope is Catholic, and bears poo in the woods. No one has claimed different, have they? What's your point? Either you have misunderstood everything in my posts and this thread, or you are desperately looking for an angle where you are not entirely wrong. I will indulge you and paste from my previous post:

A 2L Mondeo is top or near top of the range (engine size, ignoring trim level). A 318d or 320d is under a 325, 330, 335, 340 etc (M3 if we include petrol models), so clearly near the bottom of the range. No one is saying that these ranges are parallel

I have a 320d

Genuine lol. It's all falling into place....

I think you are confusing yourself. Where a car is in a range is completely and utterly irrelevant.
I really don't know how to say its any clearer; a 2L is a 2L. Just because it sits at the bottom end of BMW, it doesn't make it a small engine, regardless of your viewpoint or reference.

It's all falling into place....

some self proclaimed "alphas" with latent issues are so insecure in the adequacy in their genitals that they need a 3 on the back of their car rather than a 2

Hang on ladies, just going to put the kettle on...

Looking like classic STW here...

4 Coupe and screw those that talk midlife crisis.

I honestly can't explain it any better than in my above posts, and it's pointless to paste them a 3rd time. If you can't see how a different range of values determines the relative low and high point within those ranges, there is little point in labouring the point further.

Your responses smack of being defensive about having a (near to) bottom of the range 320d, and genuinely that's not what I am getting at.

318, 320, 330e all use a 2.0 engine 🙂

I feel quite the same. Repeating ourselves isn't going to resolve this I don't think. I'm sure we each think we're right.
If there is one thing I'm not defensive about, it's my car. It's a [i]car[/i] FFS. I drive it, it gets me places. I like it and could not care less if anyone else does. I don't post it on Facebook with #likeitsonrails11111 or some such shite.

To be fair, I am a scientist that uses statistics (in particular related to dynamic ranges), and am inclined to think of unrelated 'data sets' in a way that people who don't work in these areas may not understand/be familiar with. Might explain the disconnect here, partially at least. Hazard of the job when most of the people you communicate with come from a similar background.

Sounds condescending, but again, genuinely not meant to be.

318, 320, 330e all use a 2.0 engine

Which is why I used 'outputs' rather than engine size in one of the previous posts :lol:.

It would go some way to explaining it.
From my end, the first BMW I had was an E36 318is Coupe. It had 125BHP, and was a pretty quick car in 1992. I've also had 330d and 325i coupes to 320 ED tourings since, so most of the spectrum. Now all 2L's have 180BHP which is plenty of power (you're in 328i E36 territory there), luxury in fact!
Plus there is an extra <60HP if you look at remaps. That's loads and loads and loads.

318, 320, 330e all use a 2.0 engine

So, finally can we agree that a 2.0L is not a small engine now?

Don't push it 😉

I'm seriously disappointed. I thought this thread had at least another hour in it...

I am in agreement, 2L petrol is not a small engine.

It may not be small, but based on the cars I've had it's below my average

Toasty - so 50mpg in a car that does 0-60 in 6 seconds isn't good in your book?

Name me one other car that can !?

Not only did I name one, I did it in the same post, it's just not available for 18 months 🙂 If I was being even more pedantic I'd have said a Caterham! 😉 On a more sensible note, a 330d would match the requirements too wouldn't it?

I don't recall saying it wasn't impressive, I'm just highlighting the fact that the claimed mpg is around 3x what people get in the real world.