You should be claiming against whoever the invoice is from. So if the invoice was issued by XYZ Ltd, then you are claiming against the Ltd company rather than a director. It doesn't matter if the Ltd co has one director or twenty you aren't claiming against them personally as the company is a legal entity in its own right. Hope that helps!
Her.
She’s gonna ****ing love that 😂😂😂
Wouldn't want be him when that letter drops on the mat.
So it’ll be a fight in the courts.
I'd be surprised if they don't buckle when confronted with someone who knows their rights and is prepared to follow up on them.
Just tried phoning – got through to the full answer phone.
Try phoning from a different number. If that works, document it.
Still think it hit something hard enough to cause the mount to fail
That's entirely possible but it's down to them to prove it otherwise it's an irrelevance..
Thanks ferret. Makes sense. 1St job on that is to send two copies of the letter of rejection one to the trading site, one to the registered company office address.
Send 'em recorded.
if he says its hit something, go with it claim on your insurance.
The Honest John guidance is spot on re rights and liability.
There's a bit BUT though....
there are alarm bells ringing with this guy....
obvious attitude problem
unanaswered phone / overflowing mailbox. Other unanswered unhappy customers?
not a director of his own firm - has he previously folded to avoid liability?
Go legal, and quickly.
Unanswered phone / overflowing answer phone is due to holiday apparently (although 4 days later it's still not cleared). TBF before his holiday he answered the phone every time, even out of trading hours.
He previously was a director of another used car Company which was disbanded (correct word?) in 2013, this company is a trading name under a body shop which his now wife is sole director of.
Check him on the director's register at companies house....it'll tell uou what happened to previous businesses, and whether he is disbarred from being a director...
I would start voice recording all my conversations with him. That way when he changes his tune at court you can play them out.
It sounds like his companies don't last long. Sorry, that warranty is with the previous shop. But it was you that sold it me, yes, but it's nothing to do with me.
Get dom on it! BBC rogue traders
As above, get the paper work out quickly.
Good luck
And I also don’t agree with the dealer saying hitting a pothole could cause the top engine mount to fail. It would have to be one big pothole…
Or else it left the ground at speed going over a ramp towing a caravan...
The dealer did say that the garage it’s currently at checked it over prior to sale and issued a report – when I spoke to them on the phone they said there was no record of the reg on the system… So one big porky there.
I think any court would look at that lie, followed by a failure, and reach a very quick conclusion.
Turns out his wife is the only director on the company, so am I taking her to court or him?
Talk to Citizens Advice, or the free helpline your home insurance has (do you even have legal cover via home insurance, employer, car insurance etc?
I think you need to make the other party aware if you are going to record any phone calls.
"<span class="highlight">4. Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone? </span>
Yes -the relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own calls as long as the recording is for their own use. Recording without notification is prohibited where some of the contents of the communication—a phone conversation or an e-mail—are made available to a third party, i.e. someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication.
<h3><span class="highlight">5. Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?</span></h3>
No - provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording."
this company is a trading name under a body shop
Accident damaged car bought cheap, done up, flogged on and no-one noticed the engine mount was cracked?
this company is a trading name under a body shop
Accident damaged car bought cheap, done up, flogged on and no-one noticed the engine mount was cracked?
Exactly what I thought too.
Ok, letter of rejection written and cc to both the trading name site and company address.
It's Friday so I've actually had time to go through all the documents etc. From the receipt of the vehicle to the engine mount failing, in 6 weeks. I've done 152 miles..........
He kept saying to me on the phone - you've done 1200miles in that car, you could have done anything to it!!!! HA!
Really hope you get a good result OP
👍 thanks
Yep, best of luck OP - hope you manage to get it sorted.
There seem to be lots of dealers like this, cutting corners to save cash/make more money.
Found this link tonigh, it may help anyone else in a similar situation in the future:
https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights
It explains the legalities much better than any other site I've come across. It also explains very clearly what is expected from the dealer and how he should act in this situation.
Investigatory Powers Act 2000 is the law governing the use of covert techniques by public authorities’ Public authorities are deemed as government and police departments, including the military and security services, MI5 for example. It requires that when public authorities such as the police or government departments need to use covert techniques to obtain private information about someone, they do it in a way that is necessary, proportionate, and compatible with human rights.
RIPA does not provide powers to carry out covert activities, rather, it provides a framework to operate within.
NOTE: RIPA does not legally apply to private companies but offers a good framework to work within.
I don't know of any law that stops a private citizen recording a phone conversation unless I've missed something.
NB I use RIPA daily.
Damascus +1
Members of the public would not be expected by a court to be held to the same standards on investigation as law enforcement bodies. If you knew you were being lied to and the only way you could prove it at the time was by recording a telephone call then that would be a reasonable thing for you to do and may well be accepted as evidence.
If I did it in my job without following RIPA I’d not only have my evidence taken out of the case I would probably risk the entire case collapsing and probably losing my job too.
You're within your rights to record a telephone conversation as long as you tell the other person at the start of the call that that's what your doing.
His telephone starts with 'all telephone conversations are recored' then put you through.....
It's just easier than taking notes....
I'd be slightly concerned that his response to CCJs will be to make it very hard to recover the funds, even moving assets and folding/restarting the company to avoid this.
If there is the possibility of doing debit card chargeback I would strongly consider it as it would potentially leave you in a better position. I would have thought it was highly unlikely that the dealer would manage to get a CCJ against you in the circumstances you describe.
Question to everyone suggesting recording the phone calls:
How?
Question to everyone suggesting recording the phone calls:
How?
There are android apps that do it. If not speakerphone and another phone. Gets you a witness if you have your mate holding the other phone 🙂
Otherwise SIP client on the PC and any audio recording software that allows you to record other apps.
ACR on Android works well.
Best of luck with this OP
I’d be slightly concerned that his response to CCJs will be to make it very hard to recover the funds, even moving assets and folding/restarting the company to avoid this.
He's a relatively large trader, his lot has approx 50 cars on it. So if I won the ccj and he didn't pay within allotted time scales I can employ a bailiff (at his cost) to cease goods to the value of.... I don't think it'd be worth his while to fold the company as that would require folding his body shop as well (employees etc.).
Also - no responce yet. Ill phone the garage where it's stored later to see if they've had any contact.
right, new update......
Absolutely no response to my rejection letter. I've written the next one, which is a request for an independent mediator, also know as an ADR. This can be with a motor trade ass, if hes a member of one, looking through his documentation and web site, he not. So it would be an independent.
Things get a bit more serious now - and few calls to make tomorrow.
Nothing useful to add other that good luck and keep going
Ok, another quick update. Still no contact from the dealer, so Ive contacted the bank to see if they can get involved. I've had to do it now as I'm rapidly approaching the 120day cut off where they wouldn't do anything. It's takes 7-10days for the bank to log on there system.
This is my last attempt before court action where I'll have to fork out funds (full condition report and court fees) to get it started.
where I’ll have to fork out funds (full condition report and court fees) to get it started.
Which is is probably where he hopes you’ll stop if he keeps calling your bluff and ignoring you.
Right, finally had a responce from a law firm on behalf of the dealer. The firm are associated directly with the warranty company, so it looks like it's part of his warranty package to get legal cover.
Essentially the short letter says due to the age, milage putting Ware and tare on the vehicle I should back down and foot the bill. They refer me back to consumer rights act.
Baring in mind I've done 150miles in the car and had it 6 weeks I can't see how they can legally put this forward as a defence. However this is where the law is a bit iffy - basically it's down to the judges discretion if/when it goes to court.
As far as I understand it, for an engine mount to fail it has to be quite significantly worn, this wasn't advised when I bought the vehicle. It came with an MOT, but engine mounts are not covered or checked by an mot. It also wasn't on the advisorys list (blank). Its not usual for an 80k Touran to have an engine mount replaced and there are no recall or advisorys to do so at that milage unless the mount is significantly worn. As ive only done 152miles it wouldn't be expected of me to replace that part.
I'll leave it untill the weekend to write my next letter and cc in the law firm (along They don't say all correspondence should for to them moving forward (I'll ask in the next letter) so that'll be three lots of postage going forward.
Ill also wait for the banks response before sending it as I should have that in the next week. If they can't help it'll almost certainly end up in court, unless the law firm advise the dealer it's not worth it.
Having a quick skim through this, I can't see the purchase price of the car mentioned. If it's less than 10k you can go through small claims process rather than full civil court which would be a lot simpler and cheaper and IIRC, if you loose, (which I don't think you would for a moment) there's very little liability on you in paying outlandish costs.
Re. you comment about work engine mounts not being on the MT advisories, if it's not part of the test, they wouldn't be looking at it to advise it's worn, so don't use that as part of your argument.
Best of luck with it, I was sold a lemon once, and it boiled my piss at the time. I didn't have your tenacity to do anything about it properly though.
Small claims court would cover it wouldn't it?
Thanks tthew
Price paid was 3341, my first port of call is the bank (whom I've contacted) the second and final option will be small claims. I've done small claims before (although it ended in a settlement prior to court).
I cant see it going to court TBH. But if it does I'll be forced to see it through as it's already cost me about 100quid, court action will be 5or600 at a guess.
For that money I'd push it as far i could on principle if nothing else.
Once you've done him in small claims court, make sure it's a juicy story in your local paper. 🙂
It's not just court fees(about 100)
Ill claim for the independent report in the vehicle (200), postage (60), expenses for the day in court (100), tax and insurance on the vehicle (I hope), additional work trips due use of smaller car 2x a week for however many weeks etc...... + purchase cost.
Once settled it'll be a name and shame, autotrader review etc. But I won't do press as that could cause more issues.
Cost of repair is at best around a grand (I think) at worse a new engine and gearbox. However he's refused his right to repair so it's a refund claim now?
Forgot to mention that the letter also confirmed the fault / part failure but not cause. So they have agnolaged the issue, which is good, but say it's not there 'members' responsibility.
Ok a bit of a new update.
I've written a three page letter back to the warranty company - it looks like they are actually just a sub department of the warranty company and pass them selves off as solicitors in cases like this (although they probably do employ some). They are there to advise there 'members' through the court process and in legalities, rather than directly assist. Their Web site was very interesting and filled with cases where they had claimed a victory, usually where some one was claiming 3 or 4 k solicitors fees or exorbitantly inflated costs. It also gave a nugget of info on how the dealer is also contravening another law by not displaying his registered office address and company number on sales recipes or the site where he trades from.
Pretty sure people would think twice if they were buying from a body repair shop.....
The letter clearly details the fault with the car, reasons the fault could have occurred, the fact it must have been present at time of sale and the fact that the dealer is directly responsible for the fault. I've sited direct passages from CRA 2015 back at them and backed it up with copies of the AA report and photos showing milage and a copy of the sales receipt showing milage at purchase.
I've also asked for copies of any reports that they have on the car and any copies of due diligence the dealer had done prior to sale (pointing out that an mot is irrelevant).
I've also demanded a full refund as the dealer didn't respond within 14 days to my first letter and has failed to start repairs in a reasonable time frame.
Go get 'em. Good luck.
Best of luck OP. Glad you’re fighting it.
Update....
Another letter from the "law firm" just within the requested time frame. This one says that he falsified the milage on the sales receipt (rounding it up) and that I actually have done 800+ miles in my ownership......
Also that engine mounts are checked in an mot (they are not). And they include a pdi check with the correct mileage at time of sale (which they didn't include with the letter and I didnt get when I was sold the vehicle).
I've put a reply together but need to speak to the bank tomorrow prior to sending it. But it's along the lines of... <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">if your member has sold the vehicle with the incorrect milage on the sales receipt, then he's committed a criminal offence. The vehicle has been sold not as described and I should get my money back. Essentially two pages of legals back at them.</span>
They didn't include any other copies of due diligence I requested prior to sale so I assume there is none. Which means he has no evidence the fault wasn't present at time of sale.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">In other news the b</span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">ank have authorised my chargeback claim based on the evidence I gave, so fingers crossed will pursue a refund with his bank and be successful. I've also sent them as further evidence, a copy the new letter and my responce which should add weight to the chargeback.</span>
Im going down the bank route, prior to small claims court, mainly because it's cheaper and quicker for me to try this first. Essentially it doesn't cost me anything so it's worth a try. However, as I paid by debit card it's not covered by law so he can issue court proceedings against me if I'm successful in the refund and he feels that the chargeback is unlawful. If I loose the claim on insufficient evidence I can still take him to scc.
To be fair to the 'law firm' they do a pretty good intimidating letter based on the wooly facts and evidence they have been given and it could shock some one into backing down. But to admit to falsifying milage on a contract doc is a big F' UP on their part and puts more clout to my claim. When you sit down properly read the letter it's full of 'we have been advised' quotes and no documented proof or referral to parts of law or any other evidence. It's essentially just a bit of a shout rant on headed paper.