In the Scottish Borders they have recently changed pretty much every 30mph limit to 20mph. It was a bold move, I think the first area in Scotland (possibly the UK) to do this in every village and town. It is a trial, funded by Sustrans, and designed to help as part of encouraging more active travel. So it is part of package to make roads more user friendly for cyclists and walkers.
What is not to love?
Well, going by FB comments (I know, hardly a fair cross section of reational society)
- It will destroy local economy because, well just because
- It will destroy environment as will cause more pollution
- It will turn towns that are already gridlocked into impenetrable black holes of traffic doom (I've lived and worked in London, if people think the Borders has a traffic problem then they really are blinkered)
- It will cause more accidents due to frustration
- It will wreck cars as engines don't like going at 20mph.
- It add hours on to every journey
I think it is great and I have no problem at whacking on the cruise control and plodding at 20mph. It adds only seconds or minutes to a journey. Crossing the road is way easier so it must be safer for kids and people with limited mobility. Why are people just so negative?
Why are people just so negative?
People fear change, and also, I assume it rains a lot in the Borders?
Don't snowflakes melt in the rain 🙂 ?
Is cruise control really for built up areas though?!
The fancy one on our yet to be delivered car is, the current one will not kick in unless you're doing over 30.
They'll get over it.
Is cruise control really for built up areas though?!
Is cruise control really for built up areas though?!
+20 years of using it, yes, works great.
if people think the Borders has a traffic problem then they really are blinkered
They do and they are.
The borders is completely full of people who drive absolutely everywhere at 40. 40 on the big straight roads, 40 on the blind corners past cyclists, 40 right through the towns except when forced to slow down by near-misses. I'm sure those guys are all really angry at the fact that now they'll be speeding by 20mph instead of 10mph but they won't change at all.
The pollution argument drives me crazy. Aye, it will cause more if you insist on stop-starting and accelerating like a madman to 20 then braking hard again. But if you drive appropriately at 20, rather than like a dick, then emissions are lower, because 20mph traffic flows better. The only thing that drives up the pollution is the driver, and the people who complain the most, will be the people who drive the worst generally. Same with traffic in most cases
Sounds like a great idea to me. Isn’t Facebook pretty much just full of people that will cry about anything?
Borders village resident here, and sadly I'm a bit pessimistic how much difference it'll make without enforcement (though any impact is welcome). We have a problem with speeding through the village (as most places) but as all the accidents have luckily been non-injury ones it doesn't flag it up enough for action to be taken. I do wonder as well whether it tends to mainly be the folk who already obey the 30mph limit who'll slow to 20mph, so not really impacting on the problem.
EDIT: I've made some other comments on chitter, that unless the 20mph areas are safely linked up then this doesn't necessarily improve active travel either, you just have 'islands' of safety that people are too scared to move between.
Hopefully I'm proven wrong! We've no date for when it'll be done here so will see what happens...
Some people will always speed and there be limits won’t fix that. But if lots of people slow down then, overall, the roads are safer.
The economy complaint is the strangest one. How will safer/slower roads destroy a local economy? I just don’t follow that logic.
I’ve made some other comments on chitter, that unless the 20mph areas are safely linked up then this doesn’t necessarily improve active travel either, you just have ‘islands’ of safety that people are too scared to move between.
Agreed, but, most kids who could travel to school on bike could do so within their 20mph island. Sadly I think it will take a lot more that slower speed limits to get more kids riding to school though. My kids have always ridden to primary school since P4 age but they are in a tiny tiny minority.
We have had 20mph on all side roads in Portsmouth for 10 years now and were the first in England to do this
Makes pretty much no difference to most people who carry on driving at 30mph or more
+20 years of using it, yes, works great.
What cars will accept 20mph for cruise control?
... Serious Q
it will cause more if you insist on stop-starting and accelerating like a madman to 20 then braking hard again.
Isn't the arguement more that to drive at 20mph requires a lower gear than at 30mph?
Our 1.0L fiesta will do 30 in 5th (just) but 20 needs 3rd gear - and for 33% longer.
Going through Galashiels recently, the 20mph is far too slow.
I can understand it on the minor roads, but through routes, with little pedestrian traffic then it isnt going to get full support.
My Hyundai happily uses cruise control at 20mph. Clearly I don’t use it down the high street but we have a lot of longer quiet roads through hamlet where it really helps to just sit on 20mph
The twenty zone for eddleston should extend past that bloody s-bend its a miserable place to be on a bike when someone decides to straightline it into oncoming traffic.
I'm all for it but as i live within sight of the nsl/20 heading north out of peebles people are already accelerating/not started slowing down yet.
I can understand it on the minor roads, but through routes, with little pedestrian traffic then it isnt going to get full support.
I think the argument is that slower speeds will encourage more pedestrian traffic
My Hyundai happily uses cruise control at 20mph.
Lucky you.... Yours must be a one-off as Hyundai's CC doesn't work below 40kmph (25mph).
Of course their specifications could be wrong.
We have had 20mph on all side roads in Portsmouth for 10 years now and were the first...
I didn't know that! Might come down to Pompey for a nice relaxing bike ride some time 😆
Slower speeds will result in less congestion and fewer queues - if everyone sticks to it. You'll get far more people out of junctions and onto roundabouts if the cars to which you have to give way are going slower.
A fact sadly lost on most people in Cardiff. We had a roundabout (Gabalfa) that was a right pain to get out of because when it got busy people gunned it out of the exits and forgetting to slow down, so they were all going too fast around it. This meant that other people couldn't get out, so they had to gun it into a small gap, and repeat. They eventually came around to my way of thinking and made it a 20mph limit and made it one narrower lane. It's better now but people still ignore the 20.
We've had a blanket 20 limit on Bristol side roads for a good few years now. There was a lot of complaining at the time but I think that has settled down now. It works well enough. Most people still speed but now they are doing 25, which effectively means the old, ignored 30 limit is observed. You still get the odd idiot going way too fast but they are really noticeable so moderately rare
Great for cycling as I ride closer to traffic speed. Great for walking as it's easier to cross roads. You also often end up walking in the road due to parked cars and it helps there. It's also easier to pull out of junctions when driving.
Lucky you…. Yours must be a one-off as Hyundai’s CC doesn’t work below 40kmph (25mph).
17 plate santa-fe, auto box. I’m not making it up.
20 on almost all Edinburgh roads. Commonly ignored, so I'm not sure how much of a positive it is.
It is of course the end of the world according to old/thick people on FB
We've got 20mph all over Stirling area also being introduced. Main thoroughfare is still 30, this is all residential roads.
I get tailgated everywhere around Dunblane at present.
This is also thanks (among other factors and reasons) to the UN CRC kicking in, with every decision the Scottish Government decision requiring an Child Welfare and Impact Assessment. All of a sudden being able to go play in the park and walk to school is more valuable than being able to get your generic German diesel car to work 22 seconds quicker. Long may it last.
To echo what @nickjb said, we’ve had 20 on anything that isn’t a “main” road in Bristol for a few years now - and on quite a few busy roads as well. From what I observe, people mostly stick between 20 and 30 now, whereas it would have been between 30 and 40 previously, so it has noticeably slowed traffic.
It’s not been perfect and entitled arseholes are gonna arsehole.
We occasionally travel to Mrs dd’s family in the WMs where it’s 30 everywhere and to be honest, the drivers’ speeds in residential areas fairly stress me out. 😀
For me it has to be for a reason, not blanket 20 like they did in Bristol, what is the purpose and how will this push towards it?
If there is a safety concern then that'll be easy to push through, but the reality is that people are commuting further, spending more time in their car and to add time to peoples journeys is not a good thing, i'd like to see them focus on areas of concern and put actual physical changes to reduce the speed of drivers, rather than just a random 'now it's 20'.
Having a twenty limit in any U.K. city is going to make **** all difference to the time spent in a car.
then that’ll be easy to push through
My hairy arse it will.
For me it has to be for a reason, not blanket 20 like they did in Bristol
Being a residential road is more than enough reason for me.
The new limit has significantly improved travel in Bristol
Borders village resident here, and sadly I’m a bit pessimistic how much difference it’ll make without enforcement
That.
Putting up some signs has next to no effect. Speed bumps etc would. I live on the A7 BTW.
.
Also, is it just me, or are other folks getting overtaken loads when sticking to 30/40 limits (and now 20) in built up areas? Seems far more prevalent than it used to be. I've now started making my van very wide if someone is right up the back of me in a 30 zone, works a lot better than a couple of signs...
sharkbait
Free MemberIsn’t the arguement more that to drive at 20mph requires a lower gear than at 30mph?
So people think. But cruising in town isn't what causes most emissions, it's the acceleration up to the cruising speed.
Cynic-al i would say in my experience it has improved things in edinburgh.
I don't think for a second people are sticking to it but the average speed seems to have gone down.
20 on almost all Edinburgh roads. Commonly ignored, so I’m not sure how much of a positive it is.
MY experience is that many folk do drive slower than they used to and do not overtake cyclists in the 20 limit - of course idiots remain idiots but IMO / IME it has made a differnce
Aye it may well have made a difference, my commute only has 2 miles of road on it these days, and some of that is near gridlocked, so I don't notice then.
I may spend more time driving and am just aware of folk up my ass at 20mph - which is enjoyable.
in Cardiff. We had a roundabout (Gabalfa) that was a right pain to get out of
I hate that thing!
My friend lives practically underneath it. It's better now they've changed it, but as a visitor rather than a resident, I am never quite sure what's going on 😆
we’ve had 20 on anything that isn’t a “main” road in Bristol for a few years now – and on quite a few busy roads as well. From what I observe, people mostly stick between 20 and 30 now, whereas it would have been between 30 and 40 previously,
Yep, i live 130 metres away from the A420 which is also a 20 zone on our stretch. For the most part people don't really exceed 30 now. At the rare times of the day when it is possible to get up to 30 in the first place. And on the back streets (i.e. the terraced house streets with parked cars down either side) it's very well observed. I'm well in favour.
East Lothian done it earlier this year.
After decades of fast cars and motorbikes, I stick to it as much as possible.
I've always tried to stick to everything bar the national limit which I viewed as optional.
Funny to catch myself shouting at folk for doing more than 20 now, I feel old when I catch myself but I actually do think its a great move.
I completely support it. With a bit of effort and some average speed cameras you could probably get a decent chunk of the COVID-19 debt paid off with the fines too.
30 is way too fast, IMHO, in my own town. I therefore enforce my own 20mph limit for the 90 seconds it takes to drive through the really busy bit.
I reckon if people around here carried guns I'd have been shot by now.
One thing I have noticed is that cars now get in my way when flying down leith walk although the new junction at Picardy place means I no longer get the flying start! No speed limits for bikes remember 🙂
We’ve had a blanket 20 limit on Bristol side roads for a good few years now.
To be fair the congestion in parts of Bristol is so bad that you are lucky if you can reach 20mph on many roads.
To be fair the congestion in parts of Bristol is so bad that you are lucky if you can reach 20mph on many roads.
I think I know what point you’re making - but once you go off the “main roads” e.g. A420 as mentioned above, A38 - Stokes C-Cheltenham Rd-Glos Road, and onto what seems to constitute most of the city’s residential roads ie Victorian/Georgian terraces with cars parked either side, it’s quite easy to drive at whatever speed you want. I’ve noticed a reduction around my BS4 area since 20mph was introduced. Could it be better observed/enforced? Yeah, for sure. But it’s helped a lot I think.
Getting back to your point, it’s difficult sometimes to explain to the antis that all they’re doing is getting to the back of a queue at a roundabout/traffic light a few seconds earlier than they would have otherwise...but y’know...people! 🙄
tjagain
One thing I have noticed is that cars now get in my way when flying down leith walk although the new junction at Picardy place means I no longer get the flying start! No speed limits for bikes remember 🙂
With the old TJ there would have been a joke about foruming furiously not cycling furiously in there somewhere.
This new guy’s different though.
I thought I would add to this with some of the fantastical complaints that are still littering every news article about the trial.
The best so far are:
- Buildings are being damaged by HGVs as they are creating extra vibrations by driving in the wrong gears.
- I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
- I am more likely to hit a pedestrian as I have to look at my speedo rather than the road and pavements.
- I've been driving at 30mph for 33 years, you cannot expect me to just drop to 20mph straight away, it will take a while to adjust down to that speed
- The pollution is so bad that when I came back from shopping the inside of my mask was black and when I washed my face it was black.
- People are going to die as ambulances cannot get to patients due to the long line of slow moving traffic.
We actually share the road with these muppets, its mad.
We actually share the road with these muppets, its mad.
I suggest you never watch any of the dashcam video's posted online then. It is truly scary how folk drive, anticipate and then react when needed...
We actually share the road with these muppets
Come the revolution... [continue to fade]
Idiots gonna idiot.
The twenty zone for eddleston should extend past that bloody s-bend its a miserable place to be on a bike when someone decides to straightline it into oncoming traffic.
That's a brilliant idea and I would wholeheartedly support such a move.. Seems like almost everytime I'm on that part of the road there's an accident in the offing as some moron overtakes around the blind bend..
– I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
– I am more likely to hit a pedestrian as I have to look at my speedo rather than the road and pavements.
Peebleshirenews on FB by any chance?
They’ll get over it.
They'll completely ignore it.
All of Cambridge, bar the ring road, has been 20 mph for years - no one sticks to it.
