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My average mpg now has dropped from just over 32mpg to around 28 mpg, which must mean more emmisions.
Probably because you're accelerating harder, for longer coming out of a 20 into a 40/50/60 rather than coming out of a 30. Accelerate less hard.
What car are you driving, and manual or auto?
My average mpg now has dropped from just over 32mpg to around 28 mpg, which must mean more emmisions.
I think I'd cry if I drove a vehicle with such a low mpg - combined longer journeys & thru London with plenty of 20mph zones & averaging a real world 57mpg (2015 ULEZ compliant diesel).
I give you some research results that are probably more rigorous than those by the RAC :
Might be more rigorous, but completely pointless and talking about a different subject.
As far as i can tell, it's linked to legislation called "Gear Shift Indication". Because i've read a few reports like that before.
Once you add a load in (going up hill) slower (in the optimum gear) is more efficient.
It's probably you rage accelerating out of every 20 limit. Or hitting first and WOT up every slight incline...
Drove down to Afan valley before Xmas last year, it makes sense for the limits to be 20mph because the villages have steep narrow roads with plenty of sharp bends, so you can't really go bombing it round the place even if you wanted.... However, I noticed a few places where there was a straight road, a few houses and a 20mph limit lasting for about 1km, I didn't have an issue as I wasn't in a rush and just chatting away to a mate, but I can see how places like that it would be frustrating... In city centres and villages with steep inclines, tight roads, schools etc. it makes perfect sense.aybe some common sense in places that should be 20 and places that should be 30 would help..... I live on a 20mph road, and it makes sense for it to be 20mph (it's a dead end, single width road with houses lined both sides).
Having a blanket "one size fits all" rule doesn't fit with using some common sense.
Having a blanket “one size fits all” rule doesn’t fit with using some common sense.
Its a good place to start. If there are anomalies then those individual roads can be changed pretty simply. Much easier (an safer) to do it this way than the other.
Which is exactly what the legislation lays out.
Rather than push limits down on dangerous roads (which is what historically happens, pretty much everywhere) make everywhere nominally safer, then lift limits sensibly.
Speed cameras had similar (annoying) legislation in the start, was originally written to only put cameras in accident hotspots and "dangerous existing roads". Then they started putting them on new roads. Can vaguely remember some hoo-haa about a camera on a brand new stretch of bypass in the mid 90s (Aylesbury maybe?). They had actually built the road, then decided it was dangerous (adding a camera) without any accident statistics or the road even being open... Now they add cmaeras where needed i.e. where ever idiots speed.
(FWIW, it *was* a dangerous road, long, straight, down hill, bad sightlines toon to an almost unsighted roundabout at the bottom. 60 limit. I could get to over 50 mph on my bike between the top of the hill and the camera location.)
However, I noticed a few places where there was a straight road, a few houses and a 20mph limit lasting for about 1km, I didn’t have an issue as I wasn’t in a rush and just chatting away to a mate, but I can see how places like that it would be frustrating
The issue here is that the few homes live only a km from the village and they would like to walk and cycle in more safety. So a 20mph will a) make that safer and b) encourage more folk to walk or cycle such short distances to pick up the milk and bread at the village shop
It's funny hearing about all the moaning about the 20mph speed limit, kind of like people did when the smoking ban came in. Everyone will get used to it and it won't even be a thing anymore.
Also, I was taught by my driving instructor back in 96 that you should not be going over 20mph where there is parked cars on either side pf the road or when on a narrow windy road in a built up area. Makes sense to me.
Which is exactly what the legislation lays out.
And it makes sense to use this approach if it is applied competently and consistently, but that hasn't been the case. Here in Swansea we have 20mph roads that still have 30mph signs because the paint that was sprayed over the 30 has washed away. The main road through from Killay, on the west side, is 30mph for most of it's length, while the same type of main road through Cockett is 20mph. Coming from Penclawdd you come out of a 40mph, into a few 100 metres stretch of 30mph, then turning left at a junction 20mph for 150m, back up to 30mph, then NSL about 300m later. The 20mph sign at the left turn is exactly on the 90 degree turn and positioned so that you need a sunroof to see it. A short distance away from here there is a 20mph sign on a farm track so rutted that you can't do over 10 mph in a car.
Having said that, my gripe is that the quiet roads that I've always used for commuting on the bike are now so busy and dangerous with people trying to avoid the 'slow' main roads that I have stopped riding to work this week. I've had too many incidents since Xmas.
I've found that riding a road bike in a 20mph area to still be an unpleasant thing at times. Car drivers still try to overtake for some reason despite me riding at 20mph, so I can end up passing the car back in traffic only for them to overtake again a bit further along.
It’s a good place to start. If there are anomalies then those individual roads can be changed pretty simply. Much easier (an safer) to do it this way than the other.
Could, but when did a council last raise a speed limit anywhere?
I can end up passing the car back in traffic only for them to overtake again a bit further along.
That happens all the time if you ride in traffic anyway, because even in 30mph limits the traffic isn't always doing 30mph. For the record I've had a lot more people waiting behind me, especially those who are turning off soon.
Could, but when did a council last raise a speed limit anywhere?
Well most of the main routes in Cardiff have been raised to 30 from the now default 20, but clearly the situation has changed - defaults were in the past too high so they lowered rather than raised - it's the other way round now, at least in built up areas.
Having a blanket “one size fits all” rule doesn’t fit with using some common sense.
It's not a blanket rule. It's the default. Councils can't consider every road and they can't signpost every road. Given that in towns and cities the smaller roads are by far the most numerous, it makes sense for the default to suit them and only the bigger roads need evaluating to see if the limit needs raising.
Definitely not Aylesbury then 🤣
😀 Quite probably not, just looked at a map... All i can remember is riding along the (unopened) then opened bypass probably a couple of dozen times in the space of 18 months when i used to visit the area. Then it being all over the (local) news and the cameras being covered by the operators.
For the record I’ve had a lot more people waiting behind me, especially those who are turning off soon.
This - sure speeding idiots are still speeding idiots but since the 20 mph limits came in here I have far less unnecessary overtakes and more cars prepared to wait behind me. Its more pleasant to cycle
Could, but when did a council last raise a speed limit anywhere?
Why would they? Many of the prior limits were too high anyway. A lot of them still are.
So this bus route thing: I did a bit of reading. Looks like the Arriva X51 bus used to leave the main road and drive half a mile through the village of Llandegla before presumably turning round and going back. So one extra mile, which, even if driven at a constant 20 would take 3 minutes vs 2 minutes at 30mph. So one minute extra on a route of around 75 mins. However, the street in the village looks like this
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Sfetrttwg3dVW4Vi7
So no bus should be going anywhere near 30 down there. Plus it has to stop and turn around, so it was probably a 5 min detour before and is probably still a 5 min detour now. Looks to me like the bus company wanted to make some savings anyway and is run by a Tory who wanted to use it as an excuse to have a pop at the WG.
Anyone who says that the 20mph limit in wales is ‘blanket’ has been brainwashed by Andrew RT Davies and the idiot who does his Tweets and social media for him. RT is using the speed limit as political octopus ink. I suspect someone is pulling his strings as he’s too daft to do it himself.
mattconway1984
Free MemberHaving a blanket “one size fits all” rule doesn’t fit with using some common sense.
There has to be a default. Whether it's 20 or 30 or 50 or 70, there has to be one, you can't say that "doesn't fit with using some common sense"
I know it's been said over and over but this is the only thing this change does, it makes the default 20. There was a default before, there'll always be a default, every road that isn't at that default has always been specifically chosen to not be at the default and always will, because that's literally the only way it can be.
Just that now it's 20, making it much easier for towns and villages to be at 20 instead of 30.
combined longer journeys & thru London with plenty of 20mph zones & averaging a real world 57mpg (2015 ULEZ compliant diesel).
What car is this? We have a 2012 1.6 diesel that will, at best, return about 51mpg when driven like grandma on a 30 mile motorway trip never exceeding 68mph! Taking town driving into account it gets about 45 overall.
I’ve found that riding a road bike in a 20mph area to still be an unpleasant thing at times<br /><br />
Love them. I just rode in the centre of the lane at 30-35 km/h and point to the 20’s painted on the road when beeped. 32.6 km/h is 20 mph and that’s the speed limit. Suck it up.
There has to be a default
I agree there has to be a default. In all other areas of our laws the presumption is that we can do as we like when we like unless it is excluded by legislation. It’s at the heart of living in a free country. So why should the default for driving be different. If it was consistent with the rest of legislative system then the default would be you can travel at any speed you like unless legislation says otherwise, Not you are restricted unless given permission to do something.
Legislation sets the speed limit on all roads without explicit limits. Has done since since the 1960s.
Love them. I just rode in the centre of the lane at 30-35 km/h and point to the 20’s painted on the road when beeped. 32.6 km/h is 20 mph and that’s the speed limit. Suck it up.
You don't live anywhere as aggressively working class as south Wales, though, do you? I can guarantee that you'd do for about two days before a roided-up bloke in a BMW or Audi took offence and decided to teach you where you should be riding, in his opinion.
Legislation sets the speed limits. Has done since the 1960s.
and so it should. My point is the default in this country is you can do what you like unless legislation stops it. This works on the opposite of that. It restricts what you can do as the default and then gives permission to enhance your choices.
and so it should
I'm glad you agree.
My point is the default in this country is you can do what you like unless legislation stops it.
All driving on public roads is legislated. Just like all shooting is. Or all crane operating is. For much the same reasons.
It restricts what you can do as the default and then gives permission to enhance your choices.
The 20mph default in urban areas in Wales is just like the 30mpg default in urban areas in England. Do you object to that as well?
You don’t live anywhere as aggressively working class as south Wales, though, do you?
You haven't ridden through Hounslow and Ealing 😀 . My rear camera will record the perps in either locale. The most likely difference is that large swathes of West London are now 20 mph, so the opportunities for 30+ are few and far between. Had a few aggressive drivers, but they don't get very far in the traffic before being caught.
You haven’t ridden through Hounslow and Ealing 😀
Plenty of times - I used to live in the Richmond/Kingston areas.
My point is the default in this country is you can do what you like unless legislation stops it. This works on the opposite of that. It restricts what you can do as the default
Yes, and for a bloody good reason. As has already been pointed out, we've had speed limits since 1861 so the 20mph default is not the fundamental legal change you seem to think it is.
You're not making sense anyway - you say that in the UK you can do anything unless legislation prevents it - yes, but speed limits are exactly that legislation.
You don’t live anywhere as aggressively working class as south Wales, though, do you? I can guarantee that you’d do for about two days before a roided-up bloke in a BMW or Audi took offence and decided to teach you where you should be riding, in his opinion.
and that's my point - bringing the limit down on so many roads that are monitored by cameras, etc, has some effect for law abiding citizens but not much for the many such drivers in south wales and the valleys, and even for the abiding citizen speeds seems to have crept back up to closer to 30.
It's been said that proscecutions are only going to be for over 26mph, in 30mph areas where there's a speed camera speeds drop to probably 28mph, so not much different.
I still think it would have been a much better use of the money to put up speed cameras in areas that were actual accident hot spots, more pedestrian crossings and cameras catching anyone jumping red lights on pedestrian crsossings - zebra crossings being more of a problem.
There were already many 20mph zones around with existing signage.
I am also in favour of more unmarked police cars, and don't really see why speed cameras have to be made so visible, surely that just reduces their effectiveness?
It’s not blanket. It was done to make the streets safer, more pleasant and more useable for active travel. It is a very small step in the direction of redressing the balance between car use and other travel modes. Wales is generally heavily car dominated (some exceptions exist) and for a small place with a low population has pretty awful air quality and health outcomes. Its levels of cycling are woeful and transport poverty is a real issue. The idea that the only places that need 20mph limits are outside schools misses the point that people aren’t just impacted by cars outside schools. We need change well beyond the 20mph law… but this was cheap and easy to do so is a first step.
Those problems you quote as facts are all solvable and in many cases the 20mph limit is being used as a pretext for doing something that they already wanted or planned to do.
in reality, the limit makes little difference for most drivers beyond losing them a maximum of 1min per mile of new 20mph limit. In many cases it’s much less.
It is blanket where I live in the north. Every single 30 has been changed to a 20mph. The fact remains its been put in some really stupid places that makes no sense - which means no thought has gone into it because it cannot possibly have done, which in turn must mean its blanket.
I didn't say it was only needed outside schools.
If 30 million is cheap when the government is whinging about lack of money from Westminster and every council is making cuts and crying "we're skint" then god forbid what else they'll waste money on cheaply.
Also whilst i'm here it isn't even a 20mph limit. Because the police have said you'll only get prosecuted for 26mph and above or 27mph - can't recall which. Which is in itself a joke.
No mention of the state of the Welsh NHS while saying 30 million wasted is "cheap". Speaks volumes. The elephant in the room remains. I'd bet more people are dying and suffering due to their neglect of the NHS than a dumb ill thought out speed limit change.
Not because of a default 20mph limit unless otherwise signposted…
Yes thats what is being blamed. Keep up.
I live in the Scottish Borders and we’ve had 20mph in place for a over three years now. In all of that time, I have never heard a single man, or his dog, use the speed limit as an excuse to cancel or be late for anything. Taxi’s are still running (mostly driven by drivers who predicted end of the world when the 20mph came into force). I am almost certain that no bus routes have been cancelled for any reason other than budgets. Rather than being stranded, villages are exactly as they were before, just with slightly slower traffic passing through. Fact (actual real Fact from real world lived experience)
Thats what Arriva Wales are saying. Thats what local taxi drivers are saying. So it is fact. Read the local welsh news if you don't believe me.
So all that you put is completely irrelevant. This is about Wales. Not Scotland. And I said in my post that when 20mph was brought in years ago in sensible places no one moaned. Before you respond to a post try reading it first eh?
Probably because you’re accelerating harder, for longer coming out of a 20 into a 40/50/60 rather than coming out of a 30. Accelerate less hard.What car are you driving, and manual or auto?
Manual, Alfa Guillietta cloverleaf.
Not accelerating hard, I am ony really talking about having to crawl up a steep local hill in 20mph rather than crawling up it at 30mph, the mpg is lower at 20mph.
Actualy my car has a 'dynamic' setting which would normally take a mile or so from the mpg, but I have a feeling that it's actually better in the 20mph zones as it is much more flexible at lower revs, meaning I can keep in a better gear ratio.
As an aside, why are the speed limits in urban areas marked with 20/30mph signs when, as they are national speed limits, they could have used the 'white circle with a black diagonal line running through it' sign instead?
If this had been the case the wouldn't have had to spent so much money, just announced that the national speed limit for urban areas was changing and then put new signs up on the exception roads.
Thats what Arriva Wales are saying.
Yeah but look a bit deeper. This a political issue, and a grumpy whiner issue, and as with all such issues there is more to it than you might think at first. Read my earlier post and have a look at what the actual diversion is.
You don’t live anywhere as aggressively working class as south Wales, though, do you?
<br />You haven’t ridden through Hounslow and Ealing
Is this some sort of joke I am not getting? The mean streets of Ealing 😱😱😱😱
Yeah but look a bit deeper. This a political issue, and a grumpy whiner issue, and as with all such issues there is more to it than you might think at first. Read my earlier post and have a look at what the actual diversion is.
But the diversion is only a small part of the route, and if many of the more open sections that were 30mph are now 20mph this will affect the time the bus takes to get around the route.
In the denser urban areas that are now 20mph it is pretty likely that the bus only managed around 20mph anyway.
In south wales there have been more exceptions applied for, so more open roads that were NSL 30 and would have become NSL 20 have been 'corrected' back to a more free flowing 30mph. In the north less exceptions have been applied for and made, so the bus is now stuck at 20mph on what many would say should be a 30mph road.
But the diversion is only a small part of the route, and if many of the more open sections that were 30mph are now 20mph this will affect the time the bus takes to get around the route.
Yes, but the 20mph in that village was the reason cited for cutting the service to that village. And anyway looking at the route it's mostly open road anyway, we're not talking about an urban bus service. Again, I think this is a politically motivated cut.
In the denser urban areas that are now 20mph it is pretty likely that the bus only managed around 20mph anyway.
Bingo. So why would it be the disaster people are making it out to be?
In the north less exceptions have been applied for and made, so the bus is now stuck at 20mph on what many would say should be a 30mph road.
Then that's the local council's fault for not doing its job properly.
It makes naff all difference to journey times, makes life more pleasant for the people living next to those roads, and might just save someone's life. We've had it on most Bristol roads for ten years plus, the world hasn't ended.
Intrigued you are worried about an increase in pollution yet drive a car with higher than average pollution levels?
Had the car for a while now, it's emissions are 162g/km compared to the UK average of 138g/km but I only did 2.5k miles last year so if I bought a new car to significantly improve on C02 emissions at that rate of mileage I probably won't ever pass break even over the CO2 cost of the new car.
Plus whoever bought the Alfa would probably do a higher mileage than me and therefore emit more, decreasing the benefit of me driving the lower CO2 emission car that I changed to. So by keeping it I am actually keeping the overall amount of CO2 emisions down 🙂
The Guardian seems to agree with me :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car
"With this in mind, unless you do very high mileage or have a real gas-guzzler, it generally makes sense to keep your old car for as long as it is reliable – and to look after it carefully to extend its life as long as possible. If you make a car last to 200,000 miles rather than 100,000, then the emissions for each mile the car does in its lifetime may drop by as much as 50%, as a result of getting more distance out of the initial manufacturing emissions."
The cars been reliable, only has 61k on the clock, has a very solid engine, so as long as the electrics hold up (...) I should be able to keep it going for a long while and bring the overall CO2 cost of it down.
if I bought a new car to significantly improve on C02 emissions at that rate of mileage I probably won’t ever pass break even over the CO2 cost of the new car.
You wouldn't have to buy a new one, just swap for one of a similar age. Maybe get one with a speed limiter function to help you with your 20mph problems.
You wouldn’t have to buy a new one, just swap for one of a similar age. Maybe get one with a speed limiter function to help you with your 20mph problems.
still got the increased emissions from the buyer of my car who is highly likely to do more miles, so there will be a net increase in co2 emissions as my emissions are not reduced by much with my low mileage count, unless I scrap my car which would a strange thing to do considering its condition.
plus my car is pretty close to the average emission level of cars of that age anyway, so my choice of cars of that age that will get me a significant reduction in co2 emissions is small.
and I’ve got no issues sticking to 20mph personally, dynamic mode and a stick shift means I can drive in 3rd or 4th most of the time pretty easily, unlike a lot of the big automatic cars whose owners seem to moan about it the most.
and I’ve got no issues sticking to 20mph personally,
It sounds rather like you do.
Manual, Alfa Guillietta cloverleaf.
Not accelerating hard, I am ony really talking about having to crawl up a steep local hill in 20mph rather than crawling up it at 30mph, the mpg is lower at 20mph.
Actualy my car has a ‘dynamic’ setting which would normally take a mile or so from the mpg, but I have a feeling that it’s actually better in the 20mph zones as it is much more flexible at lower revs, meaning I can keep in a better gear ratio.
So only an 'nth quicker (a bit of a second to 60 and about 7mph top-end) than my diesel BMW. Mine has no issue going up at any speed up a steep hill (as it's a 8-speed auto), it'll also do it in cruise control AND it does almost twice the mpg.
Anything good about the car?
Anything good about the car?
yeah, its not a diesel BMW
Anything good about the car?
I have always had a hankering for an Alpha Romeo, after I have owned that Saab.... 👍
increasing restrictions on drivers ultra privileges to pollute and endanger are inevitable as societies become more aware of their negative consequences.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/19/drivers-protest-as-bologna-becomes-first-italian-city-to-bring-in-30kmh-limit
Let's be honest, most people speed a little bit and the default 20mph is really about getting drivers from doing somewhere around 35-40ish, which realistically seems the norm, to me anyway, down to around 25mph ish or hopefully lower, which makes life for non drivers much more pleasant and accidents involving pedestrians and cyclists far less serious and much more survivable, which it seems to have achieved ( the speeding bit, a bit too early for accident figures but I'm sure they'll come as figures in Spain etc show).
I live in Cardiff and generally most people are sticking to 20mph or thereabouts (they have to if they're behind me), many of the roads here have been 20mph for years anyway, my street for one, they've also been pretty good here about setting roads that merit it be 30mph etc, I never feel like I'm crawling along. I understand that some folk in other parts of Wales feel a bit frustrated as their councils haven't been as quick to review the speed limits on non residential roads and feel that it's been implemented in a clumsy way.
No mention of the state of the Welsh NHS while saying 30 million wasted is “cheap”. Speaks volumes. The elephant in the room remains. I’d bet more people are dying and suffering due to their neglect of the NHS than a dumb ill thought out speed limit change.
The elephant in the room is that if as successful as predicted that 30million is paid back several times over in the first year (plus the non-economic benefit that you've not got the breaved families etc).
"The authors estimated that as a result of introducing 20mph speed limits: • in terms of road traffic injuries, 6–10 lives would be saved and 1200–2000 casualties avoided each year, at a value of prevention of £58M–£94M."
www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-08/the-state-of-the-evidence-on-20mph-speed-limits-with-regards-to-road-safety-active-travel-and-air-pollution-impacts-august-2018.pdf
Quoting from:
Jones, S., Brunt, H. 2017. Twenty miles per hour speed limits: a sustainable
solution to public health problems in Wales, Journal of Epidemiology and
Community Health, 71: pp.699–706. doi:10.1136/jech-2016-208859
From the Bologna article
“One worker told me he no longer has time to drive home for lunch, so has to make do with a sandwich,” added Spettoli. 🤣
It sounds rather like you do.
BS - show me where I've said that I have.
yeah, its not a diesel BMW
precisely.
Not really a fan of BMWs and certainly not franchised garages so I'll stick with decent Alfa independants.
Also don't really like how diesels drive, and I don't do the sort of driving that is needed to clear the DPF anyway.
Oh, and I also do the carbon offset thing on the Shell app - which may or may not mean that I am carbon neutral on my emmisions.
So only an ‘nth quicker (a bit of a second to 60 and about 7mph top-end) than my diesel BMW
who cares, apart from many diesel drives who seem to like the acceleration
This Alfa is probably a lot slower than your diesel BMW but I wonder which is more fun to drive (not that I drive like mine that) ?
who cares
Schrodinger's petrol heads apparently. Simultaneously you've managed to not drive much at all, but be massively inconvenienced by this. Worried about pollution, but not worried about the pollution. Not like how turbo-diesels drive (err... the ability to do pretty much any reasonable speed/gear/revs combination under load, that's their torquey party trick), but complained you petrol engine can't hold a steady 20mph up a hill.
I just drove down one of the aforementioned South Wales valleys from Hirwaun to Mountain Ash which is mostly built-up. There was no more than half a mile of 20 at Pen y Waun and the rest was all 30 or more, even the bits through the towns.
I saw one idiot argue that a pedestrian hit at 30mph would have a better chance of survival than one hit at 20mph as they'd be more likely to bounce off the car and would likely go under it at 20mph, some of the arguments against are just ludicrous.
all the way thru this you have been making totally spurious objections to the 20 mph limit trying to use research that disproves your point.
whilst talking about emissions, not not being able to keep to 20mph.
but complained you petrol engine can’t hold a steady 20mph up a hill.
that's more BS, I just said the research on emissions at 20mph relied on driving calmly, which isn't the case when hills are involved as you use the accelerator more.
I've got bags of power and torque in my engine to ensure I can get up that hill easily. My second car was a diesel, and did you not read my comment about the DPF making a diesel impractical.
whilst talking about emissions, not not being able to keep to 20mph.
Which point was disproved by your link
Which point was disproved by your link
the one about changing gear early - it is not my fault that your comprehension skills are so lacking that you couldn't understand the effects that changing gear early have
T^hats the one. Yes changing gear early is good. However it did not show what you claimed at all as you can still change up early and accelerate less aggressively at 20 mph. so it proved the opposite of what you claimed
the one about changing gear early – it is not my fault that your comprehension skills are so lacking that you couldn’t understand the effects that changing gear early have
And you do know that the paper you quoted is completely irrelevant in the use case you are trying to apply it to?
Let’s be honest, most people speed a little bit and the default 20mph is really about getting drivers from doing somewhere around 35-40ish, which realistically seems the norm, to me anyway, down to around 25mph ish or hopefully lower,
In the Borders yesterday, where the 20mph limit has been there for 3 years now, I’d say 20% were doing the 20mph limit, and most others staying around 30mph. Like in some areas in Wales, the limit is applied where there are no houses around, with wide roads, so it is hard to see the point in the limit in those areas, and most ignore it, and carry on using 30mph.
ill bet those now doing 30 would be doing 40 if it were a 30 mph limit
T^hats the one. Yes changing gear early is good. However it did not show what you claimed at all as you can still change up early and accelerate less aggressively at 20 mph. so it proved the opposite of what you claimed
Not if you are driving up a steep hill - at 30mph you might have been able to change to 4th whereas at 20mph you wouldn't - unless maybe you were driving a large BMW diesel but round here there are lots of Ford Ecosports, Vauxhall Adams and 'normal' cars that won't be able to make that gear change and will therefore have a lower mpg and higher emissions.
The reports stating that fuel efficiency at 20mph is often as good or better as driving at 30mph are based on being able to drive calmly (and make those gear changes early), whereas in areas like here with lots of hills calm driving (and early gear changes) is not so easy.
Isn't that why you would have 3rd gear?
If you go at 50 is your mpg even lower. Surely you should have heard the phrase when you're in a hole, stop digging
Like in some areas in Wales, the limit is applied where there are no houses around, with wide roads, so it is hard to see the point in the limit in those areas
Living in Wales, I have never seen or heard of this?
stop digging
Username checks out.
Like in some areas in Wales, the limit is applied where there are no houses around, with wide roads, so it is hard to see the point in the limit in those areas
Living in Wales, I have never seen or heard of this?
So there are areas in Wales with Wide roads, street lighting every x metres, yet no housing and a council that hasn't chosen to apply the opt-out?
That was always the plan was it not? Blanket 20mph then apply exemptions to 30mph on selected roads
Swansea council leader Rob Stewart welcomed the change, but said the government must help foot the bill to swap signage.
Well if that was the plan all along, they don't seem to have told the people implementing it. Looks to me like its gone from being a default 20mph with 30mph exceptions to just 20 mph in specific locations.
Looks to me like its gone from being a default 20mph with 30mph exceptions to just 20 mph in specific locations.
Not really. It'll still be default 20 with a few exceptions for higher limits. That's what happens in Bristol and from that article that sounds like the plan in Wales:
Mr Stewart added that he anticipated the changes to the policy could affect up to 10 roads in his own local authority.
Huw Thomas, leader of Cardiff council, said.... he "certainly can't see many roads changing".
Let’s me get this right.
The 20mph blanket in residential areas that local authorities could make exemptions for from the start is now allowing local authorities to make exemptions?
The town I live in is introducing 20mph through out the town, the signs have been gradually going up. The few seconds it’ll add to a person’s trip through the town will make little odds to their journey. Of course there’s been the usual moans on Facebook such as “It’s pointless you’re lucky to get over 10 mph through centre” and “This will only make the traffic worse”.
"blanket". Someone's sucked up the Tory propaganda!
This is a new minister trying to make it look like he's changing something and thinking we're too stupid to realise that it's being changed into what it already is. If 20mph is ruining you and your neighbour's lives (and it isn't, is it?) you can make representations to your local authority and if you have a case it can be changed. Like you have always been able to do, under the same law, since the 1930s.