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Just going through the manifesto – guess what – only one reference about looking into integrating independent schools. All that needless discussion on abolition from day one.
Very disappointed with this - wanted to see some Mugabe-style vision, and actions, on this fundamental issue.
Science policy appears to sit just below football policy in importance - which isn't bad, tbf, for documents of this type.
stevextc
Perhaps in your world people should find the cess pit that is politics interesting?
I couldn't care less if people find it interesting or not.
But if you don't vote, you have no right to complain.
And if you don't take time to research and understand your voting choices, your deliberate ignorance has consequences for all of us.
There are plenty of very well educated people who really have no interest in politics and from our perspective there is more important or at least more interesting shit …
I know.
Pathetic, isn't it?
You’d think so….. but ultimately that’s not what stops people voting Tory
Do they vote Tory because that they can't stand Corbyn and a LibDem vote is 'wasted'?
It’s not what/who he means it’s the ethos as promogulated by Gove….the short answer is anyone that disagrees but deeper than that it is who governments/ministers/politicians choose to listen to and present themselves as “experts”.
I can’t comment on political or economics experts but I can comment on science and what is becoming increasingly popular are dumbed down narratives that ignore fact or established theory when inconvenient.
My impression is that the same is going on in politics and economics, I don’t know enough to understand the difference.
Thanks for that stevextc, now understand.
Very much agree with your second paragraph, am seeing too much of this in the worlds I live in. Don't get me started on NICE guidelines, have a newly published set to read and reckon I'll be screaming before I've reached the end. Thank god I do my own learning.
Yeah! What the **** do the medical experts at NICE know, right?
Lol
Yeah! What the **** do the medical experts at NICE know, right?
Refuse to listen to patient groups, parrot dogma from the USA/CDC cos they cba'd to think for themselves or commission research in the UK. Tick box medicine FTW.
How's the sixth form poster coming on binners?
They're finished mate. Its actually a series of visuals for all the big screens in the local colleges communal areas.
The colleges are having a real push to get the young people registered to vote. They're running sessions to help the students get their registrations all sorted.
Its really good to see them stressing the importance of voting, and obviously great to be involved in. I actually feel like I'm doing something useful for a change.
Obviously, theres a degree of self-interest as the more young people vote, the less chance the Tory's have 😀
Rusty Spanner
I know.
Pathetic, isn’t it?
That's your opinion ... I find the whole thing pretty much a quagmire of dishonesty.
cinnamon girl
Thanks for that stevextc, now understand.
Very much agree with your second paragraph, am seeing too much of this in the worlds I live in.
That's just my take ... but yep.
To win Labour need to regain the centre ground “Blair votes”
No chance with Corbyn sadly.
Obviously, theres a degree of self-interest as the more young people vote, the less chance the Tory’s have
So, basically, even though you're obviously worse than Hitler and singlehandedly ruining Jeremy's chances of election, it turns out you are actually helping Labour in your area more than most of the diehards on here?
🙂
stevextc
That’s your opinion … I find the whole thing pretty much a quagmire of dishonesty.
It's always going to involve a certain amount of dishonesty, because politics offers so much opportunity for those who wish to abuse power and control for their own ends.
So what are you planning on doing to change it?
You could get involved yourself and make it better.
You could do some research and vote for those who you believe best represent your ideals.
The least you could do is think about the options and vote - if you don't then you are handing power back to the very people you despise.
Living in a democracy brings with it certain responsibilities.
If you choose not to accept those responsibilities you also give up the right to complain.
Anyone gone through the Manifesto in detail yet? Last time (2017) it was the only (uk wide) party manifesto worth reading. I’m expecting the same again this time… but no time to do it justice ‘till the weekend.
Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory’s at the moment
Last time it was costed comprehensively, I'd be surprised if it wasn't this time but I have not checked. The Tories' one isn't afaik.
IFS are sceptical it's all possible:
I did not look for an assessment of the Tories' one.
IFS are sceptical it’s all possible:
https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/article/labour-manifesto-an-initial-reaction-from-ifs-researchers
/blockquote>The Labour Party manifesto offers a very substantial increase in the role of the state, one that is even larger than the big increase offered in their last manifesto.
I'm out. Handing a group of people this incompetent a bigger role in our lives is bananas.
molgrips - tory manifesto not launched yet so no costings available yet.
Best guess for launch date is Sunday.
Handing a group of people this incompetent a bigger role in our lives is bananas.
But currently no-one is bothering to make things better, which is why they are getting worse.
They may not manage it perfectly, but that's less important than the fact that someone wants to manage it. See, if you just leave things alone as Tories like to do, then the rich and powerful abuse the poor and downtrodden. This has always happened. Labour want to prevent that from happening. So they might not get it perfectly right, but at least they are trying to fix things by taking an active role. The Tories won't, because it is literally the entire point of the Tory party not to bother.
If there were two parties both promising to fix things for the worse off, then yes you would be right to compare them. But Tories are not going to fix things for the worse off - they are just going to ignore them and wash their hands, cos that's what they do. Small state.
In fact, the Tories one attempt to change the system that helps people - Universal Credit - is an unmitigated disaster in terms of execution, never mind the fact it is designed to allow benefits to be cut more.
Leaving the current group of people this incompetent the current role in our lives is bananas.
TJ - my local labour MP, Sue Hayman. Pretty sure she isn't corrupt.
Anyway the local Brexit candidate (a retired dentist and investor no less - I'll bet he knows a lot about manufacturing and what made Britain great...) has had one of his minions dodder up my drive and drop off his leaflet.
Lots about supporting the local area - imagine my surprise to note he had his leaflet printed in Bodmin. Which is just about as far away from Workington as you can get and still be in England 🙂 Hohum.
Crikey all these political campaigns ... same old same old ... no wonder this country is going backward.
Bloody hell ... kill off the bloody business rates for SME ... FFS! (Yes, Libdem promises this but they are weird bunch).
" ... Albert Road has been set at £215 per square metre, which is almost twice as much as the average rate."
FFS! Which job worth set the rate in Middlesbrough? This is Middlesbrough ...
Refuse to listen to patient groups, parrot dogma from the USA/CDC cos they cba’d to think for themselves or commission research in the UK. Tick box medicine FTW.
So in short, NICE are wrong because of something you read on the internet.
Those two are jokers ... taking the population for a ride.
You voting for Jo Swinson then Chewy? 😉
Something to cheer you up from Led By Donkeys 😃
https://twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1197519769890672640?s=21
General election 2019: Labour launches 'radical' manifesto
...including nationalising electriticy and gas, water, Royal Mail and railways.
Shame, for a few days there it looked like Labour might conceivably win a majority
…including nationalising electriticy and gas, water, Royal Mail and railways.
Shame, for a few days there it looked like Labour might conceivably win a majority
😛
Best guess for launch date is Sunday.
No it has already been released https://www.thetorymanifesto.com (Careful it may not be work friendly).
🙂
It's costed as well.
They're going to make themselves a fortune.
On corruption - there is no doubt at all that the majority of MPs are corrupt crooks. Either they start out like that or they get corrupted. There are some honest ones of course - but a tiny minority. Corbyn was one name I had in mind and I was wondering if Rayban could bring himself to praise him 🙂
Mhari Black is another
The overt bribary is now much less than it was but its dressed up as " consultancy fees" " speaking engagements" " Staffing support" " non executive directorships"or the promise of lucrative jobs once voted out or retire
Does anyone here really think the £50 000 to Johnson for a speech was anything but a naked bribe? How about Gove ( I think it was ) getting several thousand pounds an hour in pay from a company?
No - How about Cleggs job with facebook - note there was opportunity to reign in the internet giants during the coalition but it was not taken. Thats an overt payment for sdeeds done.
And so it goes. Balls and ~Cooper - corrupt as hell buying two london houses on expenses Far too many of them do this - enrich themselves at our expense by lying
Then we have all the paid lobbyists who happen to be MPs - al those who are paid by speciual iterests toi make sure the briber gets favourable treatment
Open you eyes and look into it. Its a cesspit of criminality, corrruption and venal pursuit of money
There have been several reports on cleaning up this cesspit of corruption but none been enacted on. Note this from the committee charged with overseeing MPS
The Committee last considered the issue of MPs’ outside interests in it’s 2009 report, MPs’ Expenses and Allowances, at the request of the then Prime Minister. At that time, we recommended that MPs should be able to continue with outside employment, as long as any outside interests were within reasonable limits and there was transparency. However, these recommendations have not been fully acted upon by government and Parliament. Nine years on, this report provides an opportunity for Parliament to act to address this issue, and to prevent further erosion of public trust.
We recommend a package of important reforms to ensure that MPs’ outside interests remain within reasonable limits. We recommend a revision to the Code of Conduct for MPs, so that any outside roles, whether or not they are paid, do not prevent MPs from undertaking the range of duties expected of them in their primary role as an MP.
James Frith - looks fairly clean with a few bits like £1500 worth of hospitality at Gastonbury but overall not bad. Didn't look into london housing for him
Sarah Wollaston Looks pretty squeeky clean. just the usual few thousands bunged herway
Ben Bradshaw the same although not even the usual few thousands. cleanest I have seen
https://www.theyworkforyou.com
Have a browse the the register of interests. Look at the revolving doors between defense contractors and MPs and tech companies employing technological illiterate ex mps for huge sums. Look at the payments by private health companies to MPs. Theyn look at the emplying of family members on exp-enses, the absurd expenses claims, the huge scam that is buying london houses on expenses and trousering the profits
The post Blair labour intake art much better than previous labour lots who were almost as bad as the tories still are.
Its an Augean stable of corruption dressed up as other things. Don't kid yourself our parliment is clean. Its not and its easy to find the evidence. follow the money
TJ - are you OK, hun?
JP
You voting for Jo Swinson then Chewy? 😉
Jo Swinson ... Noooo 😱😱😱 ... coz she is weird. Not sure why but when she speaks I keep seeing her front teeth ... her teeth ... look at those teeth. 😮
I am voting for Brexit party at the moment even without Nigel Farage coz all the mainstream parties are just bunch of jokers taking people for a ride.
Fair point.
While Nigel is a model of honest, trustworthy integrity with all our best interests at heart
Oi JP - thats how I sign myself in real life!
I am fine. I just get exasperated when people are willfully blind to the obvious corruption and criminality of the UK parliament
Far too many of them and a clear majority end up using their position to enrich themselves in the service of various groups who pay them not in our service and almost all of them engaged in fraud over expenses.
TJ, the revolving door you refer to also applies to civil servants and senior MoD personnel.
ACOBA was set up to vet these sorts of moves and either approve or reject but have proved to be singularly inept in carrying out their remit.
MPs, generally, are no more venal than the general population - yes, I'm sure you can provide examples which suit your argument - so if the control process is almost non-existent it's hardly surprising the revolving door continues revolving.
You know, as well as anyone else, that companies will always attempt to buy influence from MPs. Sort the process and apply rigorous controls.
Unless and until that happens nothing will change.
Cameron said the next big scandal would be lobbying - 100% correct - but failed to do anything to either prevent or control it.
Indeed it does Frank - the corruption goes right thru the establishment
IME MPs are much more venal than the people I know and have met. But then I do not move in right wing circles where venal behaviour is much more common 😉
While Nigel is a model of honest, trustworthy integrity with all our best interests at heart
That is not really important at all politicians are the same. Yes, they are and yes they are.
All those details they give in their manifesto etc are just bunch of hot air to be honest.
You don't have to be genius to see how each party that formed the govt become parasitic after a while let alone for so long (I am referring to all the main parties since their inception).
oh ya ... business rate ... FFS! Talking about cutting off the root of SME before they even start. How stupid can they get? Where do they think large business evolved from?
TJ, the problem is that the 'establishment' has been allowed to almost self-regulate.
Develop proper controls and apply them rigorously with suitable punishment for transgressions.
Think of it like prima donna footie players challenging referees; if they were given straight red card - you're off - and backed-up by refs association that would go a long way to eliminating the problem.
Simplistic but you get the point?