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Undecided voters gave Jeremy Corbyn a 59-41 per cent lead over Boris Johnson as best performer in last night’s ITV general election leaders’ debate, according to details of YouGov polling.
The two leaders were tied almost neck-and-neck among viewers overall in the survey, with Mr Johnson edging the contest by 51-49 per cent.
And yet the ITV Poll of 30,000 people (without weighting I believe) went for Corbyn: 78% Johnson 22%
Are you factchecking me? You should register the Twitter domain name
On it. @jozzaNukeTheFacts is available.
I read 138% forJezza
Didn't he get 23% more than Robert Mugabe ever managed in his last leadership election?
This thread is descending into a collection of big fact hunts
Binners, do you have a link to where he said he was a Marxist?
Of course he hasn’t – it’s character assassination
You are engaging in same, before even giving Binners the time to respond?
The state of this thread at this point is really mirroring what I see in the tabloids and twitters - ie name-calling and unexamined rhetoric. Depressing.
If you just have a google, there's loads of interviews of Corbyn giving chapter and verse about his admiraion for Marx. Same with John McDonnel. Both big fans
And thats fine, if thats what you want. But its never going to get you elected anywhere outside Bolivia. In fact, not even in Bolivia.
Because getting enough people to vote for it isn't really feasible when you're asking them to buy into the idea of free-market capitalism as a failed project, then advocating Marxism as the answer. An idea who's credibility came down with the Berlin wall
The labour party's present polling- in the face of a government doing its upmost to turn everyone off the idea of the free market - reflects how many people think that Marxism is a credible stance.
Most of his own MP's don't
Corbyn hasn’t said he’s a Marxist. McDonnell has IIRC.
A lot of the suspicion with Corbyn comes about because of his team of advisors, especially Murray & Milne.
binners
Subscriber
If you just have a google, there’s loads of interviews of Corbyn giving chapter and verse about his admiraion for Marx. Same with John McDonnel. Both big fansAnd thats fine, if thats what you want. But its never going to get you elected anywhere outside Bolivia. In fact, not even in Bolivia.
Because getting enough people to vote for it isn’t really feasible when you’re asking them to buy into the idea of free-market capitalism as a failed project, then advocating Marxism as the answer. An idea who’s credibility came down with the Berlin wall
The labour party’s present polling- in the face of a government doing its upmost to turn everyone off the idea of the free market – reflects how many people think that Marxism is a credible stance.
Most of his own MP’s don’t
Calling corbyn a marxist is pretty much engaging in 6th form politics, just fyi.
Can we call Andrew Murray a marxist? Or do the reality filters keep that nugget out as well?
Can we call Andrew Murray a marxist? Or do the reality filters keep that nugget out as well?
Surely it's only fair to see how he does in the Davis cup before calling him names!!
This is what McDonnell means when he says he’s a Marxist. He doesn’t mean he’s going to try and create a Marxist state. This may be confusing for some people but it’s how intelligent people talk.
Exactly. Pretty similar to how I see Marxism. It still goes that most people who use the word as some sort of insult have never even read the first page of Das Kapital.
Bloody Scottish Communists!
I am feeling like Kevin Keegan. But 12 points behind
Surely it’s only fair to see how he does in the Davis cup before calling him names!!
Oh good. One of the main advisors to the Labour leader was a member of the communist party for 40 years, and people aren’t allowed to make anything of that… because… whatever. Here’s an amusing distraction.
And the historical revisionism of Seamus Milne - Corbyns Pet Stalinist - with regards to communism makes for a lively read.
Apparently Stalin was just misunderstood and did a lot of good. We'll not mention the millions of people he killed, obvs. People always bang on about that. Its really not fair on him
But if you want to see a true dictatorship though, look to Brussels and the EU. The evil bastards. Way worse than Stalin!
Like most revolutionary communists Seamas, son of the Director General of the BBC, was privately educated then studied PPE at Oxford, then on to the journalistic establishment.
Theres not much you need to tell him about the struggles of the proletariat. He's lived it, comrade. Come the glorious revolution I'm sure he'll be first in the queue to man the barricades
Just think….. Ten more years of disgruntled placard waving, moaning about the blood Tory’s and general virtue signalling?
Sounds grim but if it's not punctuated by Life of Brian pictures and tiresome yammering about "Grandpa", "allotment" etc I'll just about make it through.
There's Stalin getting a shout now! 😆
Can we call Andrew Murray a marxist?
Wow, just wow:
Murray joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1976, aged 18, and became associated with its Straight Left faction. At this time, Murray became a close friend of Seumas Milne, who was also active in Straight Left.[8][12] Murray's allies during the period have been described by Francis Beckett as "more extreme than most of the Stalinists I knew. The Stalinists were known as tankies, but Murray’s lot were super-tankies".[12] Following the dissolution of the CPGB in 1991 he was a leader of the Communist Liaison group, which itself dissolved in 1995 with Murray and its other members joining the Communist Party of Britain.[14] Murray served on the Communist Party of Britain's executive committee from 2000 to 2004 ... He served once more on the party's executive from 2008 until 2011.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Murray_(trade_unionist)#Politicial_activity
EDIT: Beaten to it by everyone. Spent too much time reading it. Anyone else spot the bit about Murray being first Journo on the scene when the INLA killed Airey Neave. Maybe I'm reading more into it that it can bear but feels like a hint that they told him it was going to happen.
people who use the word as some sort of insult have never even read the first page of Das Kapital.
Do you have to have read Mein Kampf to call Hitler a Nazi? Or is it not remotely relevant?
Do you have to have read Mein Kampf to call Hitler a Nazi? Or is it not remotely relevant?
Hang on - the equivalent of that would be calling Marx a Marxist!
Hang on – the equivalent of that would be calling Marx a Marxist!
Biased MSM propaganda claims Marx was a Marxist, in fact he was just a Scandanvian style centerist.
Do you have to have read Mein Kampf to call Hitler a Nazi? Or is it not remotely relevant?
Nope but it would help it you were to call Johnson a Nazi, i.e. you need to know what Marxism is if you are going to use the term.
"I am not a Marxist".
Who do you reckon said that then?
Here's a clue - it wasn't Binners and it wasn't me. 🙂
Interesting that Corbz approached Kevin Maguire first.
would be calling Marx a Marxist!
I wanted to be sure I was calling a nazi a nazi; you know how sensitive some folk can be about labels...
You can’t nail shit to a wall.
I agree. It’s as difficult as pinning down the Opposition Leader’s actual opinion on the defining political issue of the era...
And hitler gets a mention too, I'm calling house in this particular game of 6th form bingo! 😆
Its a veritable who's who of genocidal tyrants
And Jeremy Corbyn would be worse than all of them. Probably.
He looks shifty
Don't you start with the sixth form bollocks too.....
It’s as difficult as pinning down the Opposition Leader’s actual opinion on the defining political issue of the era…
Pretty obvious that he is in a no win situation. If he says he will back remain then he is a remainer who is against the will of the people, if he says he will back the deal to leave then he is a leaver who is neglecting the majority of Labour voters who are remainers.
His option to get a better deal and then let people decide, democratically is a good one but leaves him with the awkward question.
Johnson doesn't have that problem as the Tory is a leave party and easy for lib dems to say whatever they want as they are irrelevant
Don’t you start with the sixth form bollocks too…..
Would you believe I've just had a brief land this afternoon and I'm presently drawing up a poster design to get the kids in the local 6th form colleges to register to vote if they're 18? 😀
Would you believe I’ve just had a brief land this afternoon and I’m presently drawing up a poster design to get the kid in the local 6th form colleges to register to vote if they’re 18? 😀
? 🙂
Anyone have an answer to who was the most famous person to come out with the "I am not a Marxist" quote btw?
Another clue.
It wasn't Nick ****ing Knowles.
Groucho?
Was it the remaining living Chuckle Brother?
Ross Kemp?
Close.
Last clue.
It wasn't Nerys Hughes.....
Margaret Thatcher?
Double post
Ooooh, no.
But please feel free to smack yourself in the testicles for mentioning her name.
It was Karl Marx.
Kids today, no bloody sense of dialectic theory.....
kerley
Pretty obvious that he is in a no win situation. If he says he will back remain then he is a remainer who is against the will of the people, if he says he will back the deal to leave then he is a leaver who is neglecting the majority of Labour voters who are remainers.
His option to get a better deal and then let people decide, democratically is a good one but leaves him with the awkward question.
It's not a huge majority of Labour voted for remain... 36% didn't but despite having had 3+ years Corbyn hasn't taken the chance to illustrate they were lied to. It's rather late in the day now.
He looks shifty
That’s what happens when you try to walk both sides of the street.
having had 3+ years Corbyn hasn’t taken the chance to illustrate they were lied to. It’s rather late in the day now.
A million times this. June 24th 2016. Could have deployed a ready made ‘it is all lies you have made a mistake’ campaign. Plant the seed, keep driving the message home Cummings style.
Nope, rather talk about anything, anything else because right at the crucial moment Jezza bottled it.
Brexit should have finished the Tories as a political force. We are going to get ten years of them. Christ knows what this country will look like afterwards.
To be honest, Labour were screwed the morning of the referendum vote.
Working class remainers are just another example of the strangeness of human nature.
Alf Garnett syndrome innit? "I borrowed a pair of boots to walk 15 miles to vote Tory".
All those I know won't be voting Labour this time.
They will be voting Brexit or Tory and would still do so if Andy Burnham came round, gave them a foot rub and lent them his mascara.
Corbyn's amazing ability to alienate the electorate hasn't helped, but his policies are excellent. Means nowt.
Ah well, glasses, beard, allotment, Diane etc.........
I'd love to hear Johnson tell us what he would do if he was in Opposition: support Corbyn's Leave deal or campaign for Remain? He'd have to do one or the other - can't refuse to answer on this most important question of our age.
Presumably he’d do what he did when he resigned from government… vote against what the government are proposing… and talk up his own approach to Brexit. It would be even easier for him than before… because he can point to the awful withdrawal deal he’s already claimed as his own, and insist we left using that.