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[Closed] 2019 General Election

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Please keep calling people you disagree with racists, it seems to be working really well for you.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:03 am
 Andy
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binners

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Are any of you Corbynites going to actually voice a defence of your messiah?

Or are you just going to abuse those of us pointing out the obvious?

Agreed. This result is horrific for a traditional Labour supporter like me but entirely predictable and Corbyn/Momentum need to own this and not just blame it on the horrible tory press.
@cougar as much as this result is going to be painful for all of us that dont support Boris its harsh to threaten @Binners for saying the same thing he has been saying for the last two years.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:03 am
 dazh
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Yes, it’s just Brexit, not Corbyn

If you can find a quote from me saying Corbyn wasn't a factor then go get it. Will you acknowledge that in leave voting labour seats the 2nd ref policy sent thousands of lifelong labour voters who voted leave to the tories? Stop using Corbyn to deny the fact that brexit is still what people want.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:04 am
 ctk
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Who wants to be Labour leader next? FFS I see nobody I want


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:04 am
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Strong support for remain.

So not appealing to leavers, who are apparently 52% of the population

A Blairite at the helm to poach conservative remain voters.

Unless he was a conservative, wasn't going to happen.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:05 am
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Will you acknowledge that in leave voting labour seats the 2nd ref policy sent thousands of lifelong labour voters who voted leave to the tories?

Thousands of voters saw a combination of Brexit policy and a communist millionaire backed and useless looking potential far left PM left as something that was too much to back, even if they had been life long Labour voters in the past. The combination was a killer.

People don’t want Corbyn as PM, and that feeling is as strong with “working class” traditional Labour voters as it is in other groups, Brexit or not.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:06 am
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So not appealing to leavers, who are apparently 52% of the population

Still better than pissing off 52 percent of the population and at least half of the other 48 percent isn't it.

Unless he was a conservative, wasn’t going to happen.

They voted for Blair.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:06 am
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@cougar as much as this result is going to be painful for all of us that dont support Boris its harsh to threaten @Binners for saying the same thing he has been saying for the last two years.

I think it was the vitriol rather than the point that was being frowned upon.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:07 am
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They just quote things that might interest people from the manifestos.

I read the manifestos and I'm pretty sure there was nothing about taking industry by force or extreme socialism or capitalism? There was a lot of that sort of bollocks being chucked around though. Not based on reality though, anymore than the picture of the poor lad lying on the floor in hospital was 'fake'


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:08 am
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So, in Sunderland Central Brexit party vote is nearly the same size as the swing from Labour. Not about Brexit? I think it is.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:08 am
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It wasn't a Brexit Election in Scotland according to the Conservative leaflets. The B word was not mentioned once.

No, according to the Tories this was fair and square an Indyref 2 election.

So how does that work out now?


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:09 am
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I refer you to the EU referendum thread, Chromolyolly, for hundreds of pages of analysis of Corbyns and Labours Brexit statements and policy. Labour was all about a red Brexit and Corbyn is a lifelong eurosceptic. Why do you think Tom Watson quit?


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:09 am
 ctk
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Kelvin 99% of voters know nothing of Corbyn's advisors.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:10 am
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They voted for Blair.

Post referendum? Different world.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:10 am
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Bercow's good at telly, isn't he?


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:10 am
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Labour going to be fortunate that the Brexit part didn't pull out of more seats...


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:11 am
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To be fair the Corbynistas have had some successful slogans

why don’t you just **** off and join the Tories

Seems people did as they were requested.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:12 am
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Post referendum? Different world.

They still would.

Face it, it wouldn't have been quite the same route had we managed to get more remainers to vote Labour. Labour lost their leavers by dithering, thus there wasn't any point dithering in the first place.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:13 am
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Kelvin 99% of voters know nothing of Corbyn’s advisors.

A huge chunk of the population think that Corbyn is too left of them to get their support… this comes from what he says… what he says is influenced by his advisors… one of which left the communist party to work with him after he became leader.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:13 am
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refer you to the EU referendum thread,

No ta, too depressing.

Just a quote from the manifesto will do. First hand is always better.

What's a red brexit? The bus was red so we are going to get a red brexit.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:13 am
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@cougar as much as this result is going to be painful for all of us that dont support Boris its harsh to threaten @Binners for saying the same thing he has been saying for the last two years.

Fair enough, but as our nutty friend said my point was rather that he needs to calm down a bit. Hurling hand grenades at the forum isn't helpful.

In any case, if we're all looking for somewhere to blame, has no-one seen a newspaper headline in the last three years? This isn't Boris or Corbyn, it's wilful sustained manipulation of the great unwashed by our media.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:14 am
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Don’t knock Binners, he’s been on the money since day one. The chickens are coming home to roost!


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:14 am
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They still would.

If he backed brexit or was a conservative, yes. That's what the data says and the early signs are that the election is going to bear that out.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:15 am
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To be fair the Corbynistas have had some successful slogans

why don’t you just **** off and join the Tories

Seems people did as they were requested

Nicked from twitter. Original as ever.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:16 am
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Just read it:

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/

Nothing misquoted in French or German media. Just selection of bits that surprise.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:16 am
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As a public servant this is all just so painfully depressing. We/you are ****ed.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:17 am
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You know that's bullshit cromololly, conservatives can be convinced to vote labour if the leader doesn't have raving communist lunatics as advisors. History shows that they can be convinced.

Entertaining the idea that conservative remainers were never worth chasing is why the labour party are in the delusional ideological mess that it's in.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:18 am
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There's talk of a lot of Welsh seats turning Blue, that's pretty much unheard of!!


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:18 am
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Just read it:

You did? That was quick. Did you find the bit about taking industry by force? What page is it on?


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:19 am
 dazh
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A huge chunk of the population think that Corbyn is too left of them to get their support…

Undoubtedly. Why though do you still deny the brexit element? I get that you're a passionate remainer, I am too, but sadly we're in the minority. All the semantic gymnastics about brexit over the past 3 years have only made people more entrenched. This was the source of my entire argument on the brexit thread for which I was roundly abused. Well this is the result. FWIW I don't think anything would have been different had labour been 100% pro-brexit or pro-remain, with their vote split between two polarised groups they were always f*****. They tried to bridge the gap, but it didn't work, the only option now is to accept it and move on. Seems to me though that some on here still want them to keep banging the remain drum. Give it up, we lost.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:22 am
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I dispair.

The only slightly positive outcome is that this must  mean the end for Corbyn. Surely now the labour party are going to wake up and realise that he's unelectable.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:23 am
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<mod>

Right, stop.

Tempers are running high, we're all angry / upset / gloating, and my moderator colleagues have been fervently deleting posts and a couple of short-term bans have already been issued. Tearing ourselves apart isn't constructive folks, and frankly we all need to go to sleep at some point. So here's what's going to happen:

I'm now going to close this thread. I'm going to make a cup of tea and make a sandwich. I'm going to enjoy said comestibles. I might even treat myself to a poo. Then I'm going to reopen this thread and we'll all come back a little bit calmer and without screaming "j'accuse" at anyone who will listen.

Deal? Good.

</mod>


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 1:24 am
 dazh
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And we're, back. It's not about brexit. Not at all. Here's Labour's candidate in Stoke...

"It’s a lovely and toxic combination of the fact that the message in Stoke-on-Trent that’s been heard by the voters is that the Labour party tried to stop Brexit. It would be remiss of me not to mention that Jeremy Corbyn has come up on the doorsteps. Some people really like him. Some people really dislike him, and that has been a turnoff.

But John [McDonnell] is right to say that it’s Brexit. The Labour party had a choice when Theresa May presented her deal. We could either have stopped the Tories or we could have stopped Brexit. And unfortunately some of the siren voices in the shadow cabinet who have big Liberal Democrat votes in their London seats decided that stopping Brexit, and therefore lining themselves up for future leadership bids, was much more important than respecting the votes in marginal constituencies in the midlands and in the north west and the north east. And they’ve sacrificed us for whatever political ambitions they want to do next."

And Ian Lavery's seat at risk, another labour MP who was loudly warning about the brexit problem. Are we still carrying on with this fantasy that brexit isn't the main problem?


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:07 am
 ctk
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Brexit was the problem & Corbyn needs to go


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:10 am
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Redcar - Tory gain apparently, Tories could outperform the exit poll if that is true.

EDIT: ITV story, based on Labour source so treat with caution.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:11 am
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That'll be amplified by the Brexit sentiment. In remain areas it'll be much less of a swing.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:16 am
 dazh
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Corbyn needs to go

I don't think there's any doubt that will happen. They'll be scrambling to stop Starmer and Thornberry taking over though, not to mention the usual Blairite suspects. The next leader will be a leaver, hence why Rayner declared herself as one the other night. The metropolitan remainers are finished. We live in a brexit country now, whether we like it or not.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:17 am
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ctk +1

The way I read the situation is that Brexit was the issue - it's just Labour when given the choice of losing hard vs losing, they chose to lose hard by dithering.

The next leader will be a leaver, hence why Rayner declared herself as one the other night. The metropolitan remainers are finished. We live in a brexit country now, whether we like it or not.

They won't be able to galvanise support behind them then, the remainers will stay either lib dem or conservative - at least for then next decade until this debacle is forgotten.

It will be like the lib dems and tuition fees.

The answer is not to double down on anti metropolitan labourism - London counts for a bloody huge swathe of Labour support and you've already lost your brexity Labour voters. They'll vote conservative for the next decade.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:17 am
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It's completely obvious from the few seats in at the moment that Brexit is indeed the issue (purely from the number of Brexit party votes). If only Labour had accepted that.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:20 am
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Burning question of the night - was it a good poo or are results still coming in?


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:22 am
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Workington gone. Jesus.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:22 am
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Workington. FFS.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:23 am
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Workington - easy win


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:23 am
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If only Labour had accepted that.

Then how many seats would they have lost to LDs? We'll never know. As I've been saying for ages - Labour were cornered by Brexit.


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:26 am
 ctk
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Turnout -12.6% so far


 
Posted : 13/12/2019 2:27 am
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