The Tories have a plan to steel some voters from Labour. It’s a big fat obvious obnoxious one. I’ve not seen even a hint that Labour want to take votes from the Tories. Their priority seems to be new voters, and I have no idea where that will be enough for them to poach seats. I hope it pays off.
@mrmonkfinger > you missed one trick there:
because democracy is about making decisions through public vote?
It isn't, it's about choosing people through public vote who are then empowered to make those decisions.
What you’re forgetting is that for a lot of people the war is personal
Did you ask him what he did in the war personally? Unless he's approaching 100, the answer is probably "hide."
we’re better than europe and won the war
We did win the war. With help from *deep breath*:
The United States (from December 1941)
The Soviet Union (from June 1941)
China
France
Poland
Yugoslavia
Greece
Netherlands
Belgium
Norway
Czechoslovakia
Luxembourg
India
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
Ethiopia
Brazil
Philippines
Mongolia
Nepal
Mexico
Cuba
The Tories have a plan to steel some voters from Labour. It’s a big fat obvious obnoxious one. I’ve not seen even a hint that Labour want to take votes from the Tories.
How could Labour take votes from the Tories?
I see Johnson is up to his usual default antics. If in doubt, say something racist
Boris Johnson vows end to migrants ‘treating Britain as their own’
He's an absolutely despicable human being. He's deliberately ratcheting up fear of 'the other', stoking up xenophobia and giving a tacit nod to the racists that he's on their side. It ****ing infuriates me because there are genuine consequences to this kind of shit. Not for a rich privileged white man, obviously...
I'm cautious about quoting the great sage Gary Neville but he was bang on at the weekend after the monkey chants at the Manchester derby
Gary Neville accuses Boris Johnson of fuelling racism
How could Labour take votes from the Tories?
Moving away a Marxist shadow chancellor, and a shadow home secretary who thinks Mao wasn't all that bad. That would be a start, I'd say.
Oh, and the whole inviting nasty people to parliament. Better stop that as well, I reckon.
How could Labour take votes from the Tories?
There are an awful lot of people who historically voted Conservative, don’t want Boris as PM, don’t want Brexit, don’t like the Trumpificatuin of UK politics, don’t want the government to neuter the legal system and other restraints on executive power, and simply aren’t impressed with post 2016 Tory “government” so far… they should be ripe for the “let’s give the other party a chance” vote.
Yep Labours problem is they just think all they have to be is the best Labour Party ever and then everyone will see sense.
If Labour had fewer policies it would be so much easier for them. Its about optics and the Tories understand this. The Labour campaign has been a bit of a mess. Every new election promise makes the others less believable.
The Tories have to convince everyone that they are not going to sell the NHS
Labour have to convince everyone that they are not going to "bankrupt the country like last time" (NB I know it wasn't Labours fault but lots of people still think it was! Boris saying it today- unchallenged of course)
Still fingers crossed
There are an awful lot of people who historically voted Conservative, don’t want Boris as PM, don’t want Brexit, don’t like the Trumpificatuin of UK politics, don’t want the government to neuter the legal system and other restraints on executive power, and simply aren’t impressed with post 2016 Tory “government” so far… they should be ripe for the “let’s give the other party a chance” vote.
And how are Labour not meeting every one of those criteria already?
If Labour had fewer policies it would be so much easier for them. Its about optics and the Tories understand this. The Labour campaign has been a bit of a mess. Every new election promise makes the others less believable.
The Tories have to convince everyone that they are not going to sell the NHS
Labour have to convince everyone that they are not going to “bankrupt the country like last time” (NB I know it wasn’t Labours fault but lots of people still think it was! Boris saying it today- unchallenged of course)
All of this ignores the elephant of Brexit though. The Cons could (and pretty much have) no manifesto and still get an insane amount of votes purely because they claim to "Get Brexit Done". At one point Brexit Party was polling at 25%.
Labour having the perfect manifesto but being remain would not get those voters back.
Yep agreed but maybe with fewer policies they could argue more about how the Tories' policy of 'Get Brexit done' is BS and Bojo himself has been an impediment on getting Brexit done etc
Or **** it just have get Brexit done vs Free Broadband
Cougar, yes, I know, a subtle distinction given the overall discussion.
As to what they did in the war, aged 85, I know exactly what they did (have bombs dropped very close to them, watched American troops roll past for D Day, saw a lot of aircraft shot at overhead), the personal thing was really relating to folk having lost parents and relatives (etc). Either way, doesn't really matter, it is the holding tight of the belief that All Germans Are Nazi Bastards and Britain Shouldn't Have Anything To Do With Them, which is, well, asinine and unproductive at best, and a number of other words at worst.
And how are Labour not meeting every one of those criteria already?
See CHF's post above - viz
Moving away a Marxist shadow chancellor, and a shadow home secretary who thinks Mao wasn’t all that bad. That would be a start, I’d say.
Oh, and the whole inviting nasty people to parliament. Better stop that as well, I reckon.
I am that Conservative remainer, despairing of the direction the Tory party has gone and would readily vote Labour otherwise this time around.
I am that Conservative remainer, despairing of the direction the Tory party has gone and would readily vote Labour otherwise this time around.
So who are you going to vote for?
Surely you can't vote Conservative?
Surely you can’t vote Conservative?
Indeed I won't. I may not vote at all, for the first time in 40+ years. If I vote it will be LD. I was lining up early on to vote LD but their policy of revoke A50 whatever made me feel they'd overplayed their hand. And as usual, they may be centrist in some things but they're extreme in some of their Liberal ideas.
But don't be so surprised if someone is going to vote Tory. Millions are - and they're not all fools or Little Englander isolationists. There are many who will hold their nose and vote Tory because they think the current incarnation of Labour is even further beyond the pale.
but they’re extreme in some of their Liberal ideas.
Extreme and Liberal don't seem to mesh.
but they’re extreme in some of their Liberal ideas.
Out of interest what policies put you off?
Laura K getting played by Cummings again I see
Anonymous source says that Hancock's aide was punched by bused in labour protestors
(Tho she's since deleted the tweet saying that)
Reality is that a guy on a bike shouted at him and he drove off, but somehow she can't quite admit it?
I'm not saying she's a paid Tory bot, but just wish that 'anonymous sources' weren't given so much credence in desperate bid to get a story
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1204091610843226112?s=19
Out of interest what policies put you off?
Cancel A50 - not the right way to stop Brexit IMO
Look at JS as a potential PM - vastly unrealistic expectation
Those were the principal ones. But perhaps if they were ramping up in the polls I'd still consider them - but they've blown it.
"Grim"?
Cyclist assaults politician...
AHH apparently the story about police arresting a labour activist taxied over there by the party came from Guido Fawkes
& Of course the Dan Hodges, mailonline still running with the story
How is it that 3.5 years after the referendum so many journos still get played so easily by the Cummings/Brexit/Tory fake need soon machine?
Either way, doesn’t really matter, it is the holding tight of the belief that All Germans Are Nazi Bastards and Britain Shouldn’t Have Anything To Do With Them, which is, well, asinine and unproductive at best, and a number of other words at worst.
Sure. I mean, I appreciate that people like him are a lost cause. Someone who's thought that way for decades isn't going to be changing their opinion any time soon regardless of how many facts you present.
My point was rather, I've seen a commentary that runs along the lines of "well I voted remain but we have to leave the EU because democracy" and it needs challenging because it's incorrect and misleading.
Cancel A50 – not the right way to stop Brexit IMO
Perhaps, perhaps not. But which is more important, that it is / isn't stopped, or the method in which it's achieved?
Personally I think it should be the right way to stop it. It's literally the entire point of Parliament to make those sorts of decisions. Whether it is the right way, well, sadly after four years of being systematically lied to I think we've long passed the point of not being able to do it without another referendum.
Look at JS as a potential PM – vastly unrealistic expectation
I can't really argue with that. She seems to be a remarkably poor choice of leader for the LDs.
Preston blaming , but not naming, 'senior tories'
That'll be Matt Hancock then
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1204100056762265600?s=19
Cancel A50 – not the right way to stop Brexit IMO
The only way to stop Brexit. The law says Britain leaves if it doesn't.
Cancel A50 – not the right way to stop Brexit IMO
Huh. Here you go then:
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/lib-dems-ready-for-people-s-vote-1-6414965
"Jo Swinson says bill for second Brexit referendum is 'ready to go'"
(Also... wait, what?)
Posted my vote today - noticed just after I put it in the box that the only collection was 9am! Hope it gets there ...
scotroutes
Member
“Grim”?
Grim to a tory like Laura K
People died for your right not to post your postal vote in time for it to count Molls
I just hope the Tory doesn’t win with a majority of one!
Great description of the two party leaders by a voter in a northern target seat on Five Live just now
“Boris Johnson is as mad as a box of frogs and Corbyn’s not right in the swede”
Indeed.
How is it that 3.5 years after the referendum so many journos still get played so easily by the Cummings/Brexit/Tory fake need soon machine?
Because their job is to report the news? Having listened to many podcasts with KL on them, it's clear she's no fan of the current Tory press machine, as many other journalists have expressed, they all realise they're being fed stuff by both sides. Report it, and folk like you think she's a stooge, don't report it, and the Tory party it becomes the Liberal BBC Bias, and it becomes their story all day.
Can't win.
All of this ignores the elephant of Brexit though. The Cons could (and pretty much have) no manifesto and still get an insane amount of votes purely because they claim to “Get Brexit Done”. At one point Brexit Party was polling at 25%.
Labour having the perfect manifesto but being remain would not get those voters back.
Exactly. Labour have been in a no win situation since the referendum. The majority of tory voters are pro Brexit so easy to keep them, plus getting some other voters who think Brexit is so important for some reason.
Labour could have come out as remain and lost even more pro Brexit people.
As someone said earlier - it seems labour pro brexit people are so keen on brexit they will vote tory to get it whereas pro remain tory voters still vote tory.
The realisation is that the pro brexit labour voters were probably never voting labour for the right reasons as true labour supporters could in no way vote tory, ever.
Once Brexit is "done" we will see a change.
Cancel A50 – not the right way to stop Brexit IMO
The only way to stop Brexit. The law says Britain leaves if it doesn’t.
Apologies. My understanding was that the LDs, if they had got into power, would have cancelled A50, with no further reference to the electorate. I accept that to stop Brexit we have to revoke A50. I think the only acceptable way of sanctioning that is via a second referendum.
Apologies. My understanding was that the LDs, if they had got into power, would have cancelled A50, with no further reference to the electorate. I accept that to stop Brexit we have to revoke A50. I think the only acceptable way of sanctioning that is via a second referendum.
They would. On the basis that if they won a majority with a clear policy of revoke then that was in effect a mandate to revoke.
They may have slightly overestimated their support level hence the pivoting to supporting a second referendum...
Brexit isn’t going to be ‘done’ for a decade at least. If ever. It’s taken this long to not even get interim procedures in place. The main complicated bit hasn’t even started.
If the Labour Party didn’t have such a bloody stupid ‘red unicorns’ position themselves they could be hammering this home. As it stands, it’s all ‘don't Mention the war’ instead
Farcical!
There’s some pretty eye-opening stuff on channel 4 news now from an undercover guy covering Richard Tices election campaign for the Brexit party in Hartlepool. Proper 1970’s National Front style racism 😳
If the Labour Party didn’t have such a bloody stupid ‘red unicorns’ position themselves they could be hammering this home
Corbyn did in the debate the other night. Several times.
Next.
Is that you Seamas?
He didn’t mention the elephant in the room - that Brexit negotiations that will take a decade. He said that within 6 months he’d be back from Brussels with his fantasy red unicorns withdrawal agreement
Because their job is to report the news? Having listened to many podcasts with KL on them, it’s clear she’s no fan of the current Tory press machine, as many other journalists have expressed, they all realise they’re being fed stuff by both sides. Report it, and folk like you think she’s a stooge, don’t report it, and the Tory party it becomes the Liberal BBC Bias, and it becomes their story all day.
Can’t win.
I agree I don't think she's conciously biased but I do think she should be publicly naming the senior Tories who fed the lies
Well, if you agree to single market and customs union, you don't need a free trade agreement, so it could be done pretty quickly. I think that's what they're referring to with the 6 months.
At the risk of getting into this yet again, they’re not proposing we stay in THE customs union, it’s A customs union (whatever that means), and they’re not proposing staying in the single market, they’re talking about ‘close alignment’ with the single market (whatever that means).
So we will need to negotiate a trade agreement.
Anyway Molls, you didn’t get your vote in on time so you’re no longer entitled to an opinion 😛
I doubt Boris will be fighting the next election even if he wins a majority Thursday which is far from a certainty.
If indeed there are ever any more General Elections (Tory manifesto page 42).