Coyote bites! Excellent. 🙂
Anyway,
Sam didn't deny Luther Burrell a place in the squad, the selectors did. There is no argument against Burrell being a much better choice.
Agreed. And, I think Farrell may well have been the chief and/or "bossiest" selector in that situation.
Perfectly understandable decision
wrecker - Member
It's a shame and indeed disappointing to see Sam go crawling back with his tail firmly between his legs.
you're being a dick and I'm sure you know that. Go and have a word with yourself.
Up yours ****head
Now now girls...
Steady on lads... 🙂
Anyway...bit of a sorry saga. Good luck to Burgess. Not quite as mouldable as the plastic allegiances of some fans.
I do think quite a few wanted the whole Burgess thing to fail, to be honest. There are even a few contributors to this thread who plainly wanted to see it fail - they never bloody shut up about him.
Anyway, yes, nice touch to go to jc's grave with the cup. Sign, surely, that he was a good bloke.
nice touch to go to jc's grave with the cup. Sign, surely, that he was a good bloke.
Barnstaple RFC 2nd XV.
That's all you need to know.
There are even a few contributors to this thread who plainly wanted to see it fail - they never bloody shut up about him.
Sorry about that, but he became - along with Robshaw who also is a very good player and thoroughly decent bloke - a talisman of the Lancastrian era. The centres had been an issue for years, and what bigger player or stage could you choose to highlight that - is the problem.
I'll **** off now. 🙂
I'm not 100% sure about Robshaw, he has an annoying tendency to moan and question most of the ref's decisions. It could be his competitive spirit but can also be viewed as petulance. I suppose it's a fine line.
Barnstaple RFC 2nd XV.That's all you need to know.
Quite so. That is a very nice touch indeed. Which is more than can be said for the playground behaviour up there.
No doubt in my mind Burgess was given a very strong signal he'd be selected for the RWC when he crossed codes. We can't blame him for that and taking the opportunity for selection which was presented. As above this was an RFU issue and in particular the management team. It's very difficult to not see Andy Farrell as being at the centre of two of the biggest failings at the RWC, namely the whole Burgess saga and the selection of Owen at fly half after the first game when he had (quite rightly) not been first choice in the run up.
As for the centres being a problem, yes I think there was a selection / consistency problem to find the best combination but IMO we had a significant number of talented players to chose from with one in Tuilagi who ruled himself out.
@aa yes saw the photo earlier, very classy and a poignant reminder of the circumstances he and his wife where killed leaving their baby daughter.
Shame to see Burgess leave under these circumstances. The world cup will be overriding memory of his time in union, forgetting the fact that England's management selected a flanker with less than a season's experience to centre in a world cup.
I'd have liked to see him have a great season at 6 with Bath, then stick his fingers up at the England set up and go back to league at the end of the season.
After 120 years it's clear nothing has really changed in the English rugby union establishment attitude to the other code....
Or do they have the attitude that RL is a completely different sport to RU, that just happens to have the same origins and shares a ball?
Glad he is gone, he was a distraction and should never of made the squad let alone the team in the World cup. Good luck to him.
I'm not 100% sure about Robshaw, he has an annoying tendency to moan and question most of the ref's decisions. It could be his competitive spirit but can also be viewed as petulance. I suppose it's a fine line.
It isn't that. Its that he's a very good 6 playing out of position and the unbending strategy of including him there - amongst other things - highlights a failing of putting the right people in the right place to do the right job to the best of their ability.
Better to have taken the flak if benching a Captain that the "laughing stock" headlines that grace the sports pages this morning.
TBH I'm super happy he's backwith the Bunnies, all we have to do now is get his brothers fixed and have the 4 of them in the next England RL WC squad. Very disappointed with the RFU for mishandling him, and the press in making him a scapegoat for much of Englands woes.
Very much looking forward to his first hit up next NRL season.
press in making him a scapegoat for much of Englands woes.
Although, they haven't - show me a headline that says "Sam Burgess lost the RWC for England"
We've seen the reports so far, I reckon there much more to [s]be leaked [/s]come regarding the rest of the setup.
Look a Clive's damning of SL this morning...
I still don't understand what Burgess was supposed to bring quality wise to RU?
Still you have to laugh at England and all their complaints of Warrenball, but at least we know who are best players are and how we want to play. England after about 10 years still can't work out how they want too.
Screw sir clive, he is a total bell end, nearly ruined the Lions, ran away to football and now scrapes a living being sensational in the press. complete cocknocker
I do think quite a few wanted the whole Burgess thing to fail, to be honest. There are even a few contributors to this thread who plainly wanted to see it fail - they never bloody shut up about him.
You don't have to be much of a cynic to raise an eyebrow at the intentions of a big money move less than a year ahead of the RWC... he was always unlikely to stick around even if they won the RWC IMO. I don't blame Burgess necessarily as he was offered (and kept getting offered!) a great opportunity. I don't see him as a scapegoat either... more as a symbol of the shambles of a management setup as others have already said
show me a headline that says "Sam Burgess lost the RWC for England"
Read pretty much anything by Mick Cleary or Paul Hayward in the Telegraph. For instance:
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11893385/England-vs-Wales-Huge-Sam-Burgess-gamble-played-to-Wales-strengths-at-Twickenham.html ]Sam Burgess Gamble[/url]
Which neatly finishes with:
At this rate, his [Burgess's] World Cup will end at the pool stage - as it will for England.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-burgess/11977922/Sam-Burgess-leaves-Bath-to-put-rugby-union-future-in-jeopardy.html ]Or how about this charming article and this line?[/url]
The supposed leader of men has succeeded only in leading many people up the garden path, notably Stuart Lancaster.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-burgess/11901151/England-v-Australia-Sam-Burgess-is-naive-and-embarrassing-says-Gordon-DArcy.html ]And let's just ignore Gordon D'Arcy's completely OTT shrieking. [/url]
The thing is D'Arcy is right, not the fault of Burgess but you can't escape the truth of what he says.
A crap analogy would be putting a Top rally driver in a F1 car and expecting them to put it on the podium after a couple of races.
I have just read that D'Arcy article,what is it exactly that he says that isn't true? Face it,he was shit and almost a vanity project, an example of how all-powerful the RFU was,they could snap their fingers and the biggest English star in the league would come. Folk rattle on about how he could have been an international 6,yet he wasn't good enough for his club side at 6.
Scrammin Sam
That first article linked clearly states
To say Burgess’ departure was responsible for that unravelling is absurd. He was not the reason England lost but his selection was an error
That to me is pointing the finger at the management. But you also have to realise that he did nowt of note in that game, all I can remember him doing is one of the worst kicks in international rugby I've ever seen.
rugby union establishment attitude to the other code....
Seems to me the RFU's attitude was they where looking through such rose tinted spectacles at Burgess / League to the extent they fast tracked a guy with virtually zero Union experience into the most important tournament in the rugby world and put him in the starting lineup for the most important match. It seems to me the RFU thinks anybody can play international Union. Also I agree with @duckman about him playing at 6 or 7, he had even less experience there.
@dragon, yes a real dead duck of a kick and indicative of the lack of the most basic Union skills, Zinzan Brooke had a better boot on him.
Fast tracking him into the Engkand setup and the RWC smacked of absolute desperation. Rather than appearing strong or him being some kind of winning talisman we just looked really desperate when it was clear he was totally out of his depth
@aa 🙂
Sam who?
Seriously though, has he given any reasons for going back to the Sydney rabbits? Perhaps underestimated the technical challenges involved with the switch to Union. Perhaps was hacked off with the England management - start him one game, then drop him completely from the match day squad. Surely for the last pool game and looking to the future they should have given him as much game time as possible. Until he explains, it doesn't reflect too well on him with the timing.
Obviously Burgess should not be blamed personally for England's failure. Lancaster has to take the cop for this. The justifications for including him in the world cup squad were laughable including, "he has played a lot of the time (at Bath) at 12." So after 80 minutes club experience the lad is asked to line up at inside centre against Wales.
Does Rob Andrew exist?
BOD was on the BT Sport show Monday night and when he listed the pros and cons of Burgess staying/going he said it was a "no brainer".
All the Union players who criticised the whole fiasco were slamming the decisions made by the management, not the man himself. The views from the likes of Tindall, D'Arcy and Carling had some authority.
D'Arcy's piece was actually really interesting as well as being spot on.
It's a testament to Burgess that he managed to not look completely f***ing useless at centre - although playing next to Brad Barritt would help.
Does Rob Andrew exist
Certainly not when there is any sh1t flying about, his main contribution is to drain £500k out of the RFU annually
Scamper well he's allegedly getting £700k a year back in League, no one would pay him anything like that in Union and with the inevitable dropping from England he'd have no RFU top ups. JW used to make about that for Toulon and took a cut to stay on the last season or two, Burgess isn't worth more than £100-200 in Union. He also said he was missing his family. I take a guess that Carter is on a similar amount at Racing, so Carter or Burgess even money 😯
It's a testament to Burgess that he managed to not look completely f***ing useless at centre - although playing next to Brad Barritt would help.
Overriding Bath on the positioning of Burgess was one of the few genius management decisions this England team made... I mean, where else is he likely to see less action on the pitch aside from playing outside Farrell 😆
🙂
Exeter humped Leicester 😆 that makes me happy
No updates on the Scarlets result on the thread this weekend? How strange...
Nice win for Munster today at Edinburgh. 🙂 Connaught going very well this season.
Exeter humped Leicester that makes me happy
Oh god, they're playing the Ospreys in the Euro cup next week. On current form the Os will be hammered.
OH crap 😯 was going to say they won this weekend but it is only Zebre 😆
A few red cards this weekend.
Anyone else seen that Joe Lunch Boy is being tipped as a candidate for SPOTY?
Teh lolz!
Seren Y gem
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Burgess got a right hammering in the weekend papers. You know perhaps you could have done things differently when your fellow team mates tell you to do one.
CFH he was one relative brightspot, seems to look the part. Very far from a SPOTY though. Laidlaw would be the only home nations nominee IMO. It will be a run off between Jessica E-H and Hamilton, you read it here first (along with other statements of the bleeding obvious) 😉
Can people explain what Laidlaw did that was so great?
WTF is going on with Saints & Gloucester?
Glos looked awful yesterday, a classic example of what Austin Healey's been going on about whats wrong with English rugby, lots of tucking the head down & running into the opposition rather than looking for space.
AA - Laidlaw should win something for his refreshing no nonsense approach to kicking.
In the London Times today about the Engerland kit man being sacked for sending a share tip (which was dreadful)to the squad during the training camp. WTF?