Well, if it's "gypsy boy" I'd say it's highly relevant!!
I suppose it could be argued that friends can call you things a stanger/competitor couldnt?
Really? So it would be ok for welsh non-gypsys to use racist terms but not English non-gypsys??
Heck - we don't need Gatts to have to apologise again do we?
I heard two black guys on site...I guess they were friends...calling one another "****". I was quite surprised the next morning when one of them threatened to throw me off the scaffolding after saying "Good morning ****." Thankfully the site manager accepted that it was just a bit of #topbantz but I've been asked to attend some diversity training.
Really? So it would be ok for welsh non-gypsys to use racist terms but not English non-gypsys??
No the difference is its OK for mates to call you all sorts of things but not peeple you dont like
How is it relevant and how am I clutching at straws, what is it you think I want?
I heard two black guys on site...I guess they were friends...calling one another "****". I was quite surprised the next morning when one of them threatened to throw me off the scaffolding after saying "Good morning ****." Thankfully the site manager accepted that it was just a bit of #topbantz but I've been asked to attend some diversity training.
What if it was 22 white guys calling the sole black guy "****"?
Not that it's comparable with abuse which isn't racist.
There's always a "what if" for some folk.
Marler was aware of his nickname so used it as a term of endearment ?
My point was in reference to your comment that his mates can call him gypsy boy but his opponents cannot and what's more should be hauled up in front of a world rugby disciplinary committee for doing so.
I should add, that I'd just met the guy's mate in the car park. He bloody parked in the last space just as I was reversing in. I had a word, tried to hit him, but ended up only grazing him, not being much of a fighter. So when I met the other guy, I said "Morning ****" - don't know why I didn't think it might not be taken well. I suppose it was all in the heat of the moment after the car park incident. I made sure to apologise at lunchtime. I think he accepted it so heaven knows why I need the diversity training.
There's always a "what if" for some folk.
😀
It [b]is[/b] a bit/lot more comparable though is it not?
DD -.your example has always exemplified the big issue in all of this to me. I would never use the N word. I was bought up to understand how abusive it is. Now the wholesale use of the same word within rap culture is considered fine?? If it's so offensive(and still is IMHO) then it shouldn't be used. The whole "he can say it but you can't" smacks of hypocrasy, double standards and closet racism in itself.
Then there three lads outside the back doing some Tarmacking. I noticed they were having lunch a bit close to my van and they had Irish accents. So I went outside and told them to **** off back to their caravans and stay away from my van. Turns out it was a tennis court they were laying and that they have this company doing mega high-end jobs, they have a Royal Crest and everything - bunch of middle class drop-outs, much like myself. I apologised later - told them about the incident on the scaffolding - they accepted that in the heat of the moment, one is allowed to let standards slip to the point of stereotyping. We're all good now. I think the site-manager's boss wants a word about it all tomorrow. The SM is a bit pissed off at being second-guessed.
The whole "he can say it but you can't" smacks of hypocrasy, double standards and closet racism in itself.
It's defiance, I get it. Defiance in reaction to a lot of very bad shit going back a long, long way.
Yep, none of which was done by me.
DD - I'd say you've squared away your issues nicely, and the site manager just wants to willy-wave an assert his authority rather than actually worried about what happened. Probably covering his arse too in case his boss gets a call from a passer-by outraged by racist behaviour on his site.
Which brings me back to my initial point about 200 pages back!! Do we honestly think that if we recorded every word said on the pitch in every 6N match this year in every language, we wouldn't find a worse example than this? I'd bet my house we could.
I always thought that you sold post it notes DD......
......wait no, I remember now, that's the posh [s]English[/s] Welsh **** isn't it.
Classist!
😉
And, as before, am half English, half Welsh. All my life, however, rugby was Welsh. Still is.
Which brings me back to my initial point about 200 pages back!! Do we honestly think that if we recorded every word said on the pitch in every 6N match this year in every language, we wouldn't find a worse example than this? I'd bet my house we could.
regardless of the rights and wrongs of this case and its not straight forawrd by any means but that is a shit argument for doing nothing.
Maybe. I just get the distinct impression that if Marler wasn't English there would be a lot less outrage flying around.
I spent 15 years in a military environment where harsh banter every day kept you going in shit places. I've been called all sorts, and am pretty hard to offend.
I'm also married to an employment lawyer, who's always telling me I'm wrong, and why things are legal/illegal/unjustifiable whatever I may think!!
Maybe. I just get the distinct impression that if Marler wasn't English there would be a lot less outrage flying around.
Why? Because it's OK to call someone a posh c****, just don't bring English into it? Laws are clear on the various categories that are sacred - including nation - had Lee been reprimanded yet?
Maybe. I just get the distinct impression that if Marler wasn't English there would be a lot less outrage flying around.
maybe, maybe not
Because it's OK to call someone a posh c****, just don't bring English into it? Laws are clear on the various categories that are sacred - including nation - had Lee been reprimanded yet?
the only "evidence" that he did say that is from the Hairyqueens coach who may or may not have been at the game but certainly wasnt on the pitch. There's no evidence he said it either.
Was the accent too strong?
If it was convenient for me to believe 2nd and 3rd hand accounts of what's been said and who's said it, I'd be quoting it as if it was gospel too.
Indeed DD its very weak WHATABOUTARY based on what someone who wasnt there has said was said and STILL they keep trying it!!
Anyone for pudding? 🙄
Jeez. Reports from WR now that Lee has been requested to explain his "Posh English ****" comments. 🙄
Really? The world gets crazier, but there were always three options
1. Treat the issue in a sensible manner as those directly involved did
2. Cherry pick rules to suit the colour of the relevant armchair
3. Apply the rules consistently
World Rugby regulations state that “verbal abuse of a player based on religion, race, colour, national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise” carries a minimum sanction of a four-week suspension.
As from the outset, IMO 1 was the appropriate response, then 3. In contrast 2 is clearly the worst of the lot.
Rules are clear: no abuse involving - religion, race, colour, national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or (the catch all) otherwise. No hierarchy there, just simple rules.
Posh English *"
This is just getting odder and odder, clearly the insult bit in this is * whatever * is. The English bit just makes sure its aimed at the right team. Bit like saying * off you Tigers ****. However in "Get back to your caravan gypsy boy" the insult is the reference to living in a caravan or being a gypsy boy which fits the "ethnic origin" bit of the guidlines. More importantly too, one of these comments what broadcast of National TV the other wasnt, if it even happend.
are you spiining us a line DD?
AA recall the John Terry issue - My memory suggests that the insult was F...., B...., C....
Off the three words, the only one that was deemed relevant was the one that newspapers were allowed to print ie, the qualifying race adjective (black) The words that were too rude for papers to print had no bearing on the issue. So we have precedent that calling someone a C..., even a fu....... C....is ok. But heaven forbid if you add a qualifying race or national origin adjective to the insult.
So we now have a situation in which (allegedly) two players uee race//national or ethnic orientation when abusing each other. If this is true, do we need clearer (sic) rules that introduce a hierarchy of offensiveness or do we apply the rules as they stand?
Of should the common sense of those involved prevail?
I actually agree with that Welsh *, English * all fine in an international rugby match between england and Wales, bring colour, ethnicity or sexuality into it and its going down the wrong path IMO. Had the Six Nations found MArler guilty and given him a ban of 2 weeks or whatever and reduced it to 0 for lack of previous and contrition but given him a warning with regards to future conduct blah blah or maybe just fined him and given him a public bollocking it would all have been fine.
Well then the rules need to be changed don't they. But, as they stand at the moment, and IF the comments attributed to Lee are accurate, then WR either applies their rules correctly or they cherry pick. Which is better or worse?
IF the comments attributed to Lee are accurate
IF, hopefully they levelóf evidence required goes beyond, he said, so I said like a bunch of 5 yearolds in a playground
I'm still not convinced that calling someone an english whatever or a welsh whatever in a game between england and wales is abuse based on nationality. Its just abuse, calling some a taff * or.....cant think of an english equivalent... or a sweaty scottish * or a dumb paddy **** would be.
Pom?
There is plenty of precedent re the use of Pom - go and read it, crazy stuff!! Ultimately the Aussies rule it's ok as it's generally used in the context of banter (no really) 😉 But many hours have been wasted on the issue.
Couldn't help smiling about this when watching the Sean Fitzpatrick cameo on sky two nights ago and his comments in how issues were sorted in his day. His loose head warned him that he was going to lamp the other hooker. Unfortunately for ST, the prop missed and hit SF instead resulting in 8 stitches!!
All a mess but keeps the lawyers and the journos happy!!!
cant think of an english equivalent...
well the French would go with Rosbif, the Scots Sassenach, my Welsh mates always used to wind me up calling me Dai 😆
If someone calls me a "Shandy drinker" is that an ethnic slur? What about Scouser? You could say that Welsh (foreigner in Anglo-Saxon) is a racial slur all Welshmen should all be called Cymri.
Whilst I understand the serious context that any sort of bigotry is inappropriate, I still thinks this is a storm in a teacup.
What I do want to know is what Samson's nickname in the Welsh locker room is.
What I do want to know is what Samson's nickname in the Welsh locker room is.
Well judging by the intellectual prowess of the average rugby player if it isn't Delilah then they're breaking the stereotype mould.
I wouldn't want to call him Delilah though. 😉
Well judging by the intellectual prowess of the average[s]English[/s] rugby player
it would be Lee e, like Brown e or Shaws e or Cole e or ... I could go on.
I suspect it might be Pikey.
Pom is quite an apt example of how context and who is saying something is important , everyone in the town in NZ who knew my late brother called him Pom. It wasnt an insult.
The only context allowed by the rules is whether the victim considers themselves to be offended or not. The offensive terms used do not come with scales iof offensiveness - although perfectly understandable that anyone is allowed to say what they like about the Enlish - we're fair game after all 😉 comes with the territory
the only context allowed by the rules is whether the victim considers themselves to be offended or not.
so was Marler (or whoever the comment was alleged to have been directed at) offended by being called posh, english or a ****. I guess we will need to establish first 1. If it was said 2. Who said it. 3.Who it was directed at before we can ask them what was offensive about it.
The one thing that we do know is that the "injured" parties sorted it out themselves - physically initially (!!!) before the more sensible verbal approach at HT and afterwards.
But that has not/will not stop ([s]the professionally offe[/s]) others getting involved.
But that has not/will not stop (the professionally offe) others getting involved.
Two weeks after the game and you're still involved. What does that say about you?
In the meantime any talk about the many rugby games that have been played in the last fortnight has ceased. As usual - these STW rugby threads always disappear into a morass of bickering and point scoring, always involving the same handful of people.
