[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

It just reinforces my earlier point . The power/pace of the modern game make these incidents inevitable.

But the Internet fora need to fed. People can pour over the clips and cherry pick incidents to suit their own particular cause.

Pig face - you find EJ sickening to look at? You know he is half Japanese? (See it's a minefield this racism stuff, isn't it!!)

So is the ex Mrs Button and she is gorgeous, what is your point?

teamhurtmore - Member

But the Internet fora need to fed. People can pour over the clips and cherry pick incidents to suit their own particular cause.

You would post up anything you could if you knew how to embed a gif. Off you pop back to wondering what all the fuss is about Marler's comment.

Dan,you do realise that you are speculating why nobody suggests dangerous play when a player injures one of his own? Nodody has ever set out to injure a team mate,so no question of intent.

Also don't understand the advantage rule anymore. Visser's try, at the breakdown before the French player was deliberately playing the ball in full view of the ref off his feet and offside, arm went up, ball out score.
Surely at least that player should have got a warning, last chance as he should have been yellow carded for professional foul play.

In the scenario of professional foul play in the 5m should it matter if the score is made or not?

Despite anything anybody else says, that was deliberate.

Psychologist now one of your many skills?

Oh, we are doing well with pointless circular arguments today!

If you said you were disgusted looking at someone, and they were black, you would get pilloried. But don't worry, it's only the arrogant English that make racist comments

Racial abuse is an interesting one. It's not about what you say, but how its perceived by the one receiving.

Not true I'm afraid. Now is Marler's comment the [i]equivalent[/i] of somebody referring to Itoje or Watson using the n-word? Well, that's a whole other thread I guess. Personally, I'd happily see Marler sanctioned for his choice of language. No outrage. No professional offence taken. It's just not on. It's a zero-tolerance issue in every sport and as often voiced in this thread, we like to hold rugby in some kind of esteem to be above [e.g.] football in its code of conduct. Players on the field of play, heard on the ref-mic by millions watching the game, using that kind of language should be held to account.

But anyway, trying to nail you down to a point, I'm understanding that you're unhappy with the consistency of citing and that some stuff gets missed on the field of play. There's hardly a contact sport (and plenty of non-contact) sports where some stuff doesn't get missed on the field of play is there? So are you saying that the stuff that doesn't get missed (notwithstanding the usual flippant comments about discussing incidents once the game is finished which appears to piss some people off...present company excepted) negates the need to punish that which doesn't [get missed]? (Genuine question btw...not trying to put words in your mouth.) For me, the pace and power of the game are what make it so much more exciting than, whenever...twenty years ago (to pick a number). But because that leads to inevitable recklessness doesn't mean we don't punish the recklessness we [i]do[/i] see.

You would post up anything you could if you knew how to embed a gif.

Better things to do, thanks all the same. His about nearly ever try scored and the afters that the tackler leaves behind. Loads of forearm smashes and hits to exposed backs. How many gifs there....

Off you pop back to wondering what all the fuss is about Marler's comment.

Nice irony, but yes I will.

Like grown ups and most rugby players, they sorted it out themselves. People say stupid things in the heat of the moment which may or may not cause offence (depends on the sensitivity of the recipient). Has rugby degenerated so much that players can sort these things out themselevs. We don't know the nature of the apology at half time, but that is what should happen. After bashing shit out of each other, players shake hands and have a beer*. It was ever thus.

* ok share a protein drink these days.

I have no issue with Francis's citing - no time for that sort of thing (whether or not deliberate). Ashton got 10 weeks, so he should expect similar.

As for Marler, I can't help by wonder how Bobby Windsor or Graham Price would have dealt with the Gypsy remark or the cheap shot on Evans.

DD - that's a good post, lots of issues there.

I think we should have a professional review panel (refs and recent pros) to go through all internationals with a fine tooth comb, and apply strict sanctions as necessary. Teams should be given feedback for minor indiscretions too, allowing them to work on any issues.

I find the current inconsistent TMO interventions affect the game too much.

We can probably all agree Marler isn't the brightest but is this offensive too? *shows off mad embedding skillz*

DanW - yep, that's far worse IMHO. Having spent a bit of time in Aus, they are light years behind us in terms of sexism/racism.

depends on the sensitivity of the recipient

We're in 2016 right? And you're still saying this?

I think we should have a professional review panel (refs and recent pros) to go through all internationals with a fine tooth comb, and apply strict sanctions as necessary. Teams should be given feedback for minor indiscretions too, allowing them to work on any issues.

In essence, I agree with you on this (practicalities aside).

teamhurtmore - Member

Nice irony, but yes I will.

I wasn't being ironic.

Like grown ups and most rugby players, they sorted it out themselves. People say stupid things in the heat of the moment which may or may not cause offence (depends on the sensitivity of the recipient). Has rugby degenerated so much that players can sort these things out themselevs. We don't know the nature of the apology at half time, but that is what should happen.

Darcy and Dan. Already happens for internationals. Thats why papers/coaches/pundits will speculate about what the ref d'jour is hot on.

Duckman - the anti Brown posts last week all said he was responsible for the placement of his foot. Surely the same is the case for kneeing your own player in the head, necessitating him being removed on a stretcher?? Reckless? Yep. Dangerous? Yep.

Its not really the same at all. One player is joining a ruck Brown was intentionally kicking a ball near someones head. Brown decided to take the risk that he might kick the players head. Accidents happen but some can be avoided.

PS oh no zokes has turned up. Ban me now!!

As for the Marler abuse, I take it as if a welsh player had called Itoje black boy rather than dropped the N bomb. The point is its unnecessary. Had Lee chinned him he would have been sent off and thats no doubt what Marler was looking for. A short sharpe ban and a clear message sent out is needed. Players need to remeber the ref mic.

No it's not - and he will get 4 weeks, that clear.

Verbal abuse of a player based on religion, race, colour, national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise carries a minimum sanction of a four-week suspension.

And oven that national is on there, heaven forbid that someone is going to get upset by being called and English/Welsh ****, but those are the rules aren't they.....and consistently is key. At least the rule makers are grown up enough to realise that race and nations are different things.

Used to get plenty of national abuse playing in Scotland - loved it, as you knew the oppo were worried if they had to resort to it. Much more worried by the silent heavy tackle...

Cole should have been given the try

Really? I've watched it a fair few times and still don't think so.

As for high tackles, well they'll always happen and aren't always clear cut. I'm quite happy for the on the field ref and touch judges to ref them and keep the TMO out of it.

Good win for Scotland yesterday, fair play. They looked like a proper international rugby team for the first time in years, by cutting out the silly mistakes that have cost them dearly in the past. On the other side, hard to know how good this French team is. I think they could be decent if they sort out their defensive line. Time will tell.

4 weeks minus 2 for saying sorry, one for furst offence and 2 more for quality biscuits leaving Lee with a week ban

Really? I've watched it a fair few times and still don't think so.

No reason not to award it so should be a try

England will muller France. It is time we stopped with the "Which France will turn up" line,because it will be the rubbish one.

Nonsense duckman, the question is still there... will the rubbish team turn up or will it be the [i]really[/i] rubbish one

Ref said he couldn't see a grounding, in the old days that would have been no try and there was no conclusive evidence from the TMO that there was a grounding. So I'm sticking with no try.

t is time we stopped with the "Which France will turn up" line

+1

Who are ire/wal/sco playing on the summer tours?

Let's not forget however that this is France, at home, playing the English. I guarantee they will suddenly play with the power and pace of old and stop us getting a grandslam. I can see it now - an attritional first half with little in it. Followed by 10 - 15 minutes after the break where they step it up a gear and put too many points on the board for us to claw back in the last quarter when we suddenly switch on. No point in even watching the game 😉

Ref was very poorly placed and by the time he got round, the Welsh arm was under the ball. We hardly saw any replays before they decided. I'd say 80% he got it down, but we'll never know. What I do know is that from that position we certainly should have scored!!

I do not think that calling someone "gypsy boy" is racist (comparing it with insulting someone based on actual race is bloody awful mind), but personally I wouldn't choose to use that kind of language to insult someone.
Whilst I might have taken the piss initially, broadly I agree with darcy, he should be sanctioned. It's the kind of language we are trying to move away from in society so it will need to be punished in sport.

Who are ire/wal/sco playing on the summer tours?

We go to South Africa in June for three tests. All of which we'll lose but you never know...SA are beatable enough and Ireland may have a game to beat them there. As often with the green machine, it'll depend a lot on who we have to leave behind. 🙂

In November, we welcome the ABs (Or NZ if O'Flashearty is reading) to Dublin for a couple of games and then maybe have a chance to rescue some pride with one test against Australia.

EDIT: My bad, the first test against NZ is in Soldier Field, which is in Chicago (the Bears' home ground).

I know dd disagreed with me, but I discuss this stuff with my wife (employment lawyer) quite a bit, and she's very quick to tell me I'm wrong. The general tenet of the law, is that it doesn't matter how you meant it, but it is about whether offence was caused. People well above our pay grade will decide where the line is, and if he crossed it.

I broadly agree with wreckers last sentence.

DD - that's a pretty tough series of tests!!! I hope Ireland get back to their best form, and Wales start to play more like the did in the second half against us.

Hopefully by next years 6N we will all be settling down in the next WC cycle and playing some decent rugby.

I'm looking forward to the European quarters too - there's a broad spread of home nation talent throughout the Aviva teams, and for the first time in many years, I think one of them might win it.

So just heard on the radio that Marler has been cited for the "strike".

Other one still under review.

EDIT: From rolling sports news:

England's prop forward Joe Marler has been cited for allegedly striking an opponent during the win over Wales.

A separate incident of alleged verbal abuse involving Marler is still being investigated. Marler apologised to Wales prop Samson Lee for calling him a "gypsy boy" during Saturday's Six Nations match at Twickenham.

I do not think that calling someone "gypsy boy" is racist (comparing it with insulting someone based on actual race is bloody awful mind)

The Race Relations Act is 40 years old this year. It ought to be pretty clear which side of the line "gypsy" is on by now.

Looking back to the Fra/Ire game, the whole bloody team should have been cited/banned for the late hits/swinging arms we saw in that game - far worse than what we are talking about here.

Looking back to the Fra/Ire game, the whole bloody team should have been cited/banned for the late hits/swinging arms we saw in that game - far worse than what we are talking about here.

I agree. Didn't say much about it on here at the time (for fear of the obvious accusations... 🙂 ) but it made for uncomfortable watching seeing the level of cynical off-the-ball stuff going on in that game. France are terrible at the moment, didn't want yet another loss against Ireland at home and went for them with some very cynical tactics. I thought the ref let far too much go. Fairy nuff, Ireland should have been good enough to beat them on the field on the day and didn't but France got away with murder.

England have Nigel Owens next week, so hopefully not a referee affected outcome

Christopher!

The Race Relations Act is 40 years old this year. It ought to be pretty clear which side of the line "gypsy" is on by now.

IDGAF what it says.

I bet Joe Marler does....

IDGAF what it says

Always good to have discussions with a mindset like this 😆

IDGAF what it says.

Luckily for the rest of society, your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Wrong, too.

calling someone gypsy boy is not a ethnic slur, but is seen as controversial.

if Marler had called him pikey boy, he would be in trouble.

calling someone gypsy boy is not a ethnic slur, but is seen as controversial.

Both controversial and - given the context - evidently also an ethnic slur (both in fact and also in law for the last 40 years).

I'm worried this is a difficult concept, not least because this was broadcast live on national TV.

Had AWJones said hey black boy to Itoje I'd think he would deserve a rest.

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

You cannot compare actual racism with pretend racism. It's a travesty that this type of thing, whilst bad form, has been lumped into the racism category.

England have Nigel Owens next week, so hopefully not a referee affected outcome