How would England have fared with these 14 brave men against a full strength England side and how impressive would the score have looked
Who gives a shit? There are many permutations of what if, none of them relevant.
Who gives a shit? There are many permutations of what if, none of them relevant.
namastebuzz does, as this was in response to his post on the what ifs, but thanks for your reply anyway.
Sorry to be blunt, capt. There is always a "what if" or a "yeah but" when england win. Always. It just doesn't matter. We all have injuries, but you can only piss with the cock you've got.
Oh and wasps/quins is a hell of a game!
still think the championship is Wales to loose
What an odd thing to say given England ate the only unbeaten team and Wales at home.
I still think Wales will win it; they're an experienced team who have won the 6N before and are used to dealing with pressure. They won't fear England, even at home. They're stronger in some key positions; Biggar is in form unlike Ford, Davies is playing better than Youngs who insists on looking like a baby bird trying to fly for the first time at every ruck, Wales are stronger at 12 too. On top of that they dont give way needless penalties like we do.
Pigface - Member
Oooh touchyWe would struggle but more than one of our forwards contributed, now answer the question
We seem to get beaten with it endlessly by our Celtic neighbours who seem to be importing plots of SH players, so e of whom are being identified early and bought over specifically.
Without Billy? We do t have another player like that so I'd expect to see Clifford on to use his pace and maybe move Itoje to the backrow to be a pain at the breakdown. Mako can carry well and has better hands than Billy as Scotland found out.
I'm always interested in the discussions on here, but the fractious nature of the posts becomes tiresome.
However I'm keen to add my thoughts.....
England seem to be trying to move towards a different game plan and a faster style, they are identifying some useful players without making a complete clean break from the old regime, both some good bits and some bad bits are being carried forward. I expect that to change, EJ has only been in charge a few months it will take many more to change all the habits.
Wales are Wales! They seem to play one way which seems to limit them, they do have in Biggar though a real find, I really like his game and he looks very good. They need to find a bit more creativity and plan B.
Ireland need to find some ball carriers and stop inviting defences on to them.
France were desperate against Wales and look devoid of any ideas of how to play, no structure or game plan.
Scotland have disappointed me the most as at the WC they seemed to have finally made some progress but have failed to bring that to the 6N.
Italy are getting closer and are slowly becoming more rounded and less totally forward dominated, although they need to gag Parisse!
STW continues to disappoint with it's continual intolerance of each other, but I keep hoping to see some love!!!!!
STW continues to disappoint with it's continual intolerance of each other
The Celts hate the English in a magnified way when it comes to sport, you won't change that, and "writing" comes across more aggressive than face to face dialogue most of the time too, you won't change that either.
Wreckers right, most on here won't congratulate England, even the English as we are a passive polite race most of the time and prefer to highlight the negatives.
England Won. We are the top of the table, therefore currently by the sum of the nature of how the Six Nations is measured and ranked we are the best team to date.
Lets not forget Wales could only muster a draw against Ireland a few weeks ago - a similar Ireland to won we just beat, and had we been better finishers would have (I know I know) beaten by a bigger margin. Wales will be harder for sure.
Kryton I think you are right, I'm guilty of it too sometimes!
I've read / heard a fair few of the Welsh players interviewed and they mostly seem really nice blokes (and some dam fine players too!), but their supporters grate on me and make me dislike their team. Some of the Welsh players may be like that off the record too, but I'll let them off!
I think that mostly the players of all nations get on pretty well I'd like the supporters to do so more...
What I find funny though is growing up England were always derided for playing the power game and kicking penalties, boot seems to be on the other foot now and it is acceptable to win at all cost... Short memories.
I think that mostly the players of all nations get on pretty well I'd like the supporters to do so more...
I think you'll find the Welsh, as you've singled them out, get along with most nations, and them with the Welsh. Go figure! 😆
Rugby threads of old were a LOT worse!!!!
The Celts hate the English in a magnified way when it comes to sport
As a Scot I probably get to comment on that, and the comment is "not really". It's more disappointment that a country with so many players manages to play in such a boring (if effective) style. It's good old 10 man rugby straight out of the Rob Andrew book of style.
The only point in professional sport is entertainment - and forwards repeatedly banging away until the kick comes in doesn't entertain.
Wreckers right, most on here won't congratulate England,
Well after the Scotland game I was quite clear on here that the English deserved their win. What more do you want?
even the English as we are a passive polite race most of the time and prefer to highlight the negatives.
Can't agree with that - in sporting terms of boring describes the England team then arrogant tends to describe the England support. This of course is a massive generalisation and some England supporters are lovely insightful people with whom one can discuss the highs and lows of a game and where certain skills and abilities told.
However I think it is fair to say my wife hates the average English supporter - because as an English woman she is embarrassed by her compatriots attitudes.
Of course I'm sure it's only bitterness - we've never had a WC and the last decent thing we won was the 5 Nations (reigning champions there though)
I've read / heard a fair few of the Welsh players interviewed and they mostly seem really nice blokes (and some dam fine players too!), but their supporters grate on me and make me dislike their team.
😆
Total lack of irony.
😆
Good post bear and your right about what England are trying to do and the intolerance - tried a separate thread to counter but it died.
As frustrating as it is to watch, I think EJ is balancing things well although it seems to me is that experience heads are giving away more penalties that the young guns. An impression as don't have the stats to back that up!
IGM - your wife is right most supporters are difficult to comprehend.
I singled the Welsh out as I suppose I remember that rivalry the most.
There looks like the making of a decent Lions team in this 6N though. Hopefully a good mix of nations involved with no one nation dominant.
I was just trying to make observations, I have no problems with any team, just want to watch some good rugby.
Another observation is that people seem to have very high expectations of teams and the the ability to be near perfect, things take time to develop, players need time to learn styles and patterns of play. Rather than the revolving door policy I think it is best to identify talent and stick with it. There will be lean times but hopefully you get through those.
STW continues to disappoint with it's continual intolerance of each other, but I keep hoping to see some love!!!!!
I've read / heard a fair few of the Welsh players interviewed and they mostly seem really nice blokes (and some dam fine players too!), but their supporters grate on me
was just trying to make observations, I have no problems with any team, just want to watch some good rugby.
Well you grate on me, how about shutting up with your anti welsh clap trap and talk about the rugby. FFS you couldnt make it up tou really couldnt.
And bear has brought the old anagallis back. Well done that man. 😆
The supporters who grate on me are the ones who turn up for 6 weeks every year and pretend to be experts based on what the rugby section of the Telegraph says. Or my mate Mark, a Scot who knows nothing until the 6N, and then proceeds to lecture me about how Scotland are so good.
Bear for the record I am Welsh and I hate loathe detest english rugby. There, now you can accuse me of being hopelessly one eyed and bigoted because I am, proud of it as well. Hugs
Just watching rugby special, why did Vunipola stop on his early break? Did he blow that chance?
2 rucks before the watson try what was farrel up to? Looks like a punch but hard to tell without another angle
Didn't catch the Farrell incident but Billy was definitely guilty of not playing to th whistle and blowing a try scoring opportunity
I actually like Eddies unapologetic approach. He couldn't care less if anyone dislikes him or the team, and I think a lot of england supporters would do well to follow his lead.
like Eddies unapologetic approach. He couldn't care less if anyone dislikes him or the team, and I think a lot of england supporters would do well to follow his lead.
That's never a bad approach. Served Pontypridd well for years.
who knows nothing until the 6N, and then proceeds to lecture me about how Scotland are so good.
I miss TJ in this thread. 🙁
Gusset is a bell end and I have to agree with Nicol
AA - I'm not anti Welsh or anti much (except Wendyball), I said I actually like the Welsh players, just their one eyed supporters, in fact any one eyed supporter, English included, and they may be some of the worst because a lot of them know nothing about rugby just come along at international time.
Pigface - would you like some help removing the fence!!!!!
Apologies if I've offended anyone.
Glad Guscott hasn't turned into Andrew Robson.
Nicol must be just a bairn! Scotland and the All Blacks used to be the masters of fast aggressive rucking. You didn't want to lie on the ball in front othe tiers forwards in the 'old days!! 😉 made for nice fast rugby too
Bear you come on a thread complaining that everyone isnt being nice and then with the next post you say how welsh supporters grate and you wonder,.... is it just a massive lack of self awareness?
teamhurtmore - Member
Good post bear and your right about what England are trying to do and the intolerance - tried a separate thread to counter but it died.
You utter hypocrite,you were banned for your inability to stop referring to Scots as Sweaties. When called out about it,you suggested a sense of humour was required ( that's a quote BTW)
Some learn from (perceived) mistakes, meanwhile.....
1NT....pass....?
Bear, you can always resurrect the other thread. It had a nice feel to it!
Internationals are a great way to bring in new supporters and we should be more accommodating of them, it's not an exclusive club. New supporters should be encouraged and not discouraged with snobbery.
EDIT: It looks like Bear has previous on this matter.
Oh,so using racist terms is a perceived mistake? And your "meanwhile'comment..show me where I have EVER used a term like the one you use on every single thread on Scotland...until they banned you of course and your learnt your lesson.
Agreed captain - why complain at people watching a great game. Now if we can get some quality rugby too and a little less whistle
And bear has brought the old anagallis back. Well done that man.
He's just bitter because he found out this week that he's been tackling incorrectly for years. 😉 😆
AA, maybe, my perception is that the Welsh English rivalry is stronger than the others. Do you have the same feelings toward other teams when you play them?
Probably because Wales has such a strong rugby heritage and are a proud nation their supporters are very patriotic, far more so than England probably.
Once again apologies if I offend, that is not the purpose of my posts, far from it.
I've played a lot of sport and made many friends through playing and watching, some were bitter rivals on the field but once you get to know them by sharing a drink post match you realise that you are all very similar. I suppose that I'm trying to get past the rivalry, but not doing a very good job of it.
Bear, you can always resurrect the other thread. It had a nice feel to it!
ME ME LOOK AT ME!!
Bear you havent offended me I just fail to grasp how you can say onething on one post and then the opposite on the next and then fail to understand why people think your posts grate.
Still its not as good as the irish times is not a national paper on the last page!
He's just bitter because he found out this week that he's been tackling incorrectly for years
Havent tackled anything more dangerous than a full english in years!
my posts didn't come across as I intended so I'm going back to read only, carry on as normal........
I kind of get pigface's attitude. In some areas, I reckon english rugby is quite a difficult thing to like. The tweed, the hunter wellies, the posh hamper of scran in the twickers car park. I get it. Here in some of the west country (excluding bath obv), the rugby playing and supporting demograph is far more like that of South wales, I find the whole posh ****er thing a bit shit too which is why I ignore it.
All said and done, it's just about 30 blokes knocking lumps out of each other with a ball for our amusement. Hating those who do so is odd.
I kind of get pigface's attitude. In some areas, I reckon english rugby is quite a difficult thing to like.
It's easy to understand pigface's point of view, he's Welsh. You should get it totally, it's not hard. 😀
Not sure what some people are seeing in this thread. All fans seem to be appreciating their team is a bit sh1t and the standard of rugby hasn't been high. England draw a lot of discussion as they are one of the few NH teams with the potential for genuinely posing a challenge to the SH sides.
As an Englishman living all my adult life in South Wales I identify far more with the "average" Welsh fan through the passion for rugby there is in the area. The subtle difference is that even in the not very Welsh part of Wales that is the South, supporters are generally rugby fans first and foremost and Welsh fans second. Sure there is passion for the national side but not the hate against other nations that most non-Welsh (English?) seem to think there is. When England had their more dominant run (especially the WC's) every single person in the Welsh bars was cheering for a NH win. As I said, South Wales may not be the best representation of Wales as a whole but from my perspective at least the discussions around England aren't out of hatred or trying to constantly pick holes, it is just contributing to a discussion of how you get the powerhouse of the NH with the most potential challenging the SH sides fulfilling all that potential as it is all we have in this part of the world in terms of hope 🙂
The supporters who grate on me are the ones who turn up for 6 weeks every year and pretend to be experts based on what the rugby section of the Telegraph says.
I played for 25 years and I'm pretty sure I'm only just starting to understand the game. As for the rules, just when I get used to them they change. And don't get me started on crossing in the 3/4s, handling in the rucks, feeding in the scrums and allowing lifting in the line outs. And didn't scrums used to involve a higher pushing to falling down ratio?
THM - the All Blacks and the Scots old style rucking? Brings a smile to my face just thinking about it. Hands on the ball when you shouldn't? Broken wrist. Lying over? Broken ribs. Self refereeing they were, just let them get in with it.
England draw a lot of discussion as they are one of the few NH teams with the potential for genuinely posing a challenge to the SH sides
Not unless they move on from 10 man rugby. Live a little, develop some flair, some artistry. When they started off loading before contact against the Aussies they looked good, moving the point of attack constantly and confusing the Aussie defence - but they didn't keep it up. And Farrell embarrassed himself and got binned. The English have the players I think but they are building a team around 6 Nations success at the moment. (Of course, I'd happily settle for 6 Nations success)
Good old days IGM - fast, aggressive rucking rugby was a joy to watch. The modern ruck and maul (especially the [s]blatant obstruction[/s] rolling maul) are v dull in comparison. You cant even collapse it any more 😉 - that soon stopped the travesty even if you did get trampled on (if you didn't quite get it right)
Yes do you remember how in some games the scrum half just kind of advanced at a fast walk flicking the ball up left or right to a galloping forward again and again.
And the five yards and pop to the open side as you're hit that Scotland just about perfected in 1984? Long diagonal lines of dead bodies up and across the pitch. Fantastic.
I'd love to "see their like again" - here's hoping
When England had their more dominant run (especially the WC[s]'s[/s]) every single person in the Welsh bars was cheering for a NH win
But yes I was screaming with delight when St Johnnie did his drop goal thing.
England had a better run that the rest of us the next time round too let's not forget. The reaction to Wilkinson's drop goal in a Welsh bar was indeed mental 🙂
